Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Hi all, Normally I'd post this topic in the Wiki section, but because I'm actually looking for more information, into the general discussion it goes I've been collecting the known information related to armor stats into a single sheet for easier reference. The idea is that it will be placed on the wiki's Armor page replacing (or the additional information added to) the current chart, but there is a large portion of data I'm not able to find. Here's what I have so far: I've intentionally not included the "Base Protection" values from the old comparison chart since I replaced it with the Damage Reduction values (which was what the old column reflected) I'd also like to add the damage types it is strong/weak against (basic overview in the Guide to PVE), filling the missing information on this chart, and if there are any additional notes (ex. Armor X gains an additional bonus/penalty (above the stance's bonus/penalty) when used in Y fighting stance, or Armor Y reduces attack speeds). All information presented here is taken from (or based on) the various guides and item pages already on the wiki, so there is no new information being presented, just collecting it in one spot and trying to expand on it a bit. ::edited to include a correct image of the data sheet:: Edited May 30, 2014 by Hussars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Just to clarify, the damage type that each armor is weak against is in terms of glance rate. The damage reduction is the same for all types of incoming attacks. Also, the PvE guide (which I created, therefore most mistakes are mine) contains a lot of information that is obsolete and/or based on speculation. Therefore it is inaccurate and unfit for use in this armor statistics guide, and it also should be updated. I believe that the glance rate chart below is current, although some developer confirmation or the opinion of some more experienced players would be appreciated. These glance rates are at 100ql, and the splint, scale (non-dragon) and ring armors are not in game yet. In addition, plate armor has the same walking speed and weight per set regardless of metal type. Also, keep in mind that chain armor can be made from seryll, adamantine, and glimmersteel, but testing has not been done as far as damage reduction. The test server could help with that. Edited May 30, 2014 by MattSquare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the link, I'll either change the Strong/Weak fields to reflect the glance rates or put a note in for it. Will just need to see which way "reads" better. ::Edit Update:: Damage reduction is taken from the current Armor page, as it is based off the "armor modifier" value with the formula presented on that page to calculate the damage reduction percentage. Edited May 30, 2014 by Hussars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 30, 2014 Scale with no cap is faster than Drake with no cap? I don't think so somehow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Scale with no cap is faster than Drake with no cap? I don't think so somehow. Was what I thought too, but the chart is reflecting the current comparison chart on the armor page. Looking at the armor specific pages: Dragon Scale (link) 16.36km/h without Steel Great Helm on cobble Drake Hide (link) 16.97km/h on cobble Hide is is slightly faster, so I'll update the chart based on the armor specific pages. ::edit:: Those armor specific pages cannot be correct.. If so, both dragon armors are on par with cloth's movement rates... Cloth 96.75% of cobble's top flat speed of 17.3km/hr Drake Hide (No Cap) 98.09% of cobble's top flat speed of 17.3km/hr Dragon Scale (No Cap) 94.57% of cobble's top flat speed of 17.3km/hr Edited May 30, 2014 by Hussars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Food for thought, or perhaps testing required? Glance rates seem to be somehow relative to the creature you're fighting. A relative check compared to something, although exactly what is being compared I don't know (weapon skill? damage? CR?). You'll get more glances off a wildcat than from a ven spider in chainmail despite both dealing cutting damage. This doesn't match up with the simplistic concept of "glance rate at 100ql". Cloth armour also has a very good glance rate against mauling (I think I was getting 6/7 glances off a black bear with q30 cloth armour). And it's very weak to cutting damage. Edited May 30, 2014 by Sevenless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Shouldn't be but is... o.O Food for thought, or perhaps testing required? Glance rates seem to be somehow relative to the creature you're fighting. A relative check compared to something, although exactly what is being compared I don't know (weapon skill? damage? CR?). You'll get more glances off a wildcat than from a ven spider in chainmail despite both dealing cutting damage. This doesn't match up with the simplistic concept of "glance rate at 100ql". Cloth armour also has a very good glance rate against mauling (I think I was getting 6/7 glances off a black bear with q30 cloth armour). And it's very weak to cutting damage.The base glance rates were provided by the GM team in the link provided by Matt. Don't forget, small sampling from 1 or 2 players, even over 10 fights each, are too small to correct for the RNG element as well as the individual player's/MOB's CR impact on hit/miss ratios. ::edit insert:: New chart based on feedback: Added a footnote for the Glance Rates calling out it doesn't factor the CR of the players/mobs on the Hit/Miss ratio. Edited May 30, 2014 by Hussars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 31, 2014 I don't want to muddle this up, but I was wondering if you also noted which mobs did what, and how frequently? One thing I'm often asking myself is if I'm wearing the right armor for the things I often fight. So, based on these values, would it be safe to assume studded is what you want for trolls? But, then I know they bite as well, as I've been bitten in th eye (I should have seen that coming). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 31, 2014 The combat rating is what you'd want to look at. The wiki has the formula provided by Rolf, it explained the hit/miss mechanics and how it impacts the numbers.There may be a cr by creature list available as well, but not sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 31, 2014 Fair enough Hussars. I'm not personally interested enough to do large amounts of testing to confirm any of my suspicions yet, but unless miss rate reads as "glance" there's something funky going on. That being said, it's from eyeballing shield training on a cat for 4-5 hours vs fighting 50-100 spiders. But without concrete numbers I'll cede the point. Thanks for the updated chart, it's interesting for sure. Wondering if Q80 leather might be good enough to do for my hunting expeditions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 31, 2014 Um when did Rolf give exact info on damage reduction rates? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Um when did Rolf give exact info on damage reduction rates? There are two parts to this conversation, the confirmed information from Rolf is related to CR details which uses an armors deflection rate to determine the final hit/miss outcome: The systemWhen two players do battle, combat rating is used to decide how large a percentage chance each player has to hit their opponent.Combat rating is a value derived from many variables. It can be affected by the environment.Combat Rating system info from Rolf:First of all, the bonus is applied to something that is called Combat Rating or CR for short in the system. Every creature has one. It is very similar to the concept of levels in other games, just that it fluctuates a lot more in wurm. It is the basis for calculating the chance to hit another creature. Players have a base combat rating of 4.If the troll I am fighting has CR 10 and I have CR 4 I have about 4/(10+4) chance to hit the troll, or 29% every attack. The troll on the other hand has 10/14 so it'll hit me 71% of his attacks. Very simplified. There are parry bonuses and covers involved in that specific algorithm. Also your basic fighting skill is added 1 per 10 in skill, so if you have fighting 59 you have a CR of 4+5.9=9.9 in base CR. Monsters have their type modifying base CR, making Champion creatures have maybe double the figure of the standard type.A lot of things also affect the combat rating before that algorithm. Things such as footing, if you are prone, certain combat moves affect it negatively, being flanked, height distance to target, focusing, being drunk.. things like that. And also the kingdom bonus.Now, in Player versus Player combat the base fighting skill is added 1 point per 5 in skill instead, so a player with 99 fighting skill would have like 23.98 in base CR and one with 50 fighting skill would have CR 14.So how much is the kingdom bonus? The kingdom bonus is 2 if your kingdom has less than 10% of the server population. It is 1 if the kingdom has 20% or less of the population.Source: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/2099-comment-on-the-kingdom-bonus-bug/ And the armor's Damage reduction formula (to clarify I have no source for Rolf ever confirming), which I cited as being the source of the damage reduction value, has been on the wiki page for quite some time (since 2010 according to the change logs). It was re-confirmed on Test back in April as per the Armor entry's discussion page: The formula was calculated from numerous tests on the test server and is correct for the QL range 2-90; it should be true for above 90 but I cannot spawn high enough QL armour to test. QLs below 2 are simply counted as being 2, I presume to make even extremely low QLs such as 0.01 worth at least something. --Dragon (talk) 20:39, 11 April 2014 (CEST)Considering these two points, as well as the old chart's "Base Protection" values of none (unarmored) or low (cloth) to very high (dragon scale), the numeric values seemed to be the better choice for clarity's sake. To be fair, the total protection of any single armor needs to also consider the Vs. damage types/deflection rates, so using the example of hunting trolls, you'd want whatever had the best glance/deflection rates vs the troll's damage type(s) and the greatest damage reduction you could afford that supports your combat style. Which also lead to me wanting to remove the "low" to "very high" protection rating. I've never claimed the DR information was confirmed or clarified by Rolf, only the CR information, as cited above. Edited May 31, 2014 by Hussars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites