An Open Letter to Redbaron Johan

[Miretta 1,415]

it makes me wonder though, why some people are having deeds on indie and deliverance in its current state?O.o 

but that aside, not everyone can be made happy with whatever they go for (if they even change the current ways) 

and my own idea about putting xanadu in the middle was more in thought of creating it as a hub for all servers...it would be actually very nice if we could get portals to every server from one "main" server.

 

and that things like impalongs could be hold on a "middle" server

[Martinus 1]

Chaos is fine as it is, if anything we all get a better deal with P&R being connected to the non-epic world. Anybody coming to Xanadu and wanting to switch to a PVP server after a while (without starting over) only has Chaos as an option, and i think that will bring in plenty of new blood into Chaos.

[Battlepaw 585]

IMO the old system where is was seperate and a portal was used to get there was the best one.

 

As someone who played under the old system I have to say I completely disagree, that portal system stifled our server and isolated us even more, both from the player base, and trade from the Freedom servers.   As a developer, I do urge you to look at the statistics, and compare the difference, as it proves my point.  We have a much higher base and a much more stable server with better population then I remember back when I first joined in 2010, during the days it was Wild, and cut off.   

 

I watched for years as our player base was limited, over and over again, then slowly trickled down a slow spiral after the release of Epic.   lets face it, I may be a full-time chaos player, even I'm a casual gamer compared to most of the residents here, I can completely understand that not everyone wants to be trapped here, the days where you were forced to leave your old life behind are over, and good riddance.   Being able to split our resources works and is part of the reason for our survival as an intact server over the years and over many campaigns to have us removed from the cluster.  I may not always like how that affects pvp here, and the fact that players can keep their loot on Freedom, but I do think it's worked to great effect in the end to make a more interesting, and more resilient experience here.   

 

Even with the JK falling apart, and fracturing into different factions, and with the loss of players within MR, recently to the other PMKs, it hasn't changed the fact that our server still works better now than it ever did in the old days.   Hell, even the biggest raid I ever remember seeing back then, over 40 players hit Eden wasn't as large as that huge fight at Kratos where both sides fielded a large army, or the massive kingdom event that led to MR bashing the BL three times in one night. None of this would have been possible without the changes in play style we have made over the last few years since Wild became the Chaos server.  

 

In fact, it is because of this change in what Chaos is becoming we are pushing this question more than ever before, because of the release of Xandu, and the opportunity for us to grow, and become something greater.    We need help here, it is something, that we can't fix ourselves only the development team can fix the server borders.  It is something we have asked for, not simply because we feel cheated, but because it is the right thing to do for our community, and for the future of our server.   

Edited May 30, 2014 by Battlepaw

[froggy25 81]

Well celeb to Indy is longer trip than Chaos to Xanadu thru Deli, especially on the return trip.

 Other than that, i totally agree with you.

The round world sounds great.

 

As for the above mentioned portals - this isn't minecraft! Besides, it would only work for characters, not animals, so not much use.

Edited May 30, 2014 by froggy25

[Gypsy 138]

I really do not think enough PvE players realize the benefit of Chaos for PvE experiences either. Here are just a few of the idle thoughts and points I have seen broached about the topic, a few of which come from my own mind (I think). 

 

*Chaos is an amazing hunting server for PvE. More powerful creatures, less players hunting, and some things you would never see on the rest of the cluster. 

 

...

 

*Evolution... or perhaps devolution? The ability to choose your play style based on your mood is vital to me. Chaos is something to look forward to when my characters are no longer proverbial infants. I think many people feel the same way. 

 

Anyway, I think PvE players in general simply do not understand what Chaos offers the rest of Freedom, and how integral it really is. And this is coming from an "almost" strictly PvE player here for all you naysayers out there. Please show our warring neighbors some love, and let their influence expand more than it already is for us. 

 

You forgot affinity trading =) Risky but fun. And ooo my Mag now has +1 soul strength (ty Guru =).

Edited May 30, 2014 by Gypsy

[Heboric 808]

I must admit to being a little confused as to why the creation of Xanadu, a purely PvE server, would cause such a storm in a tea cup for a PvP server.

 

That said - a round world with Pristine/Release connecting to the west coast of Chaos wouldn't really affect anyone who didn't want it to, and would give the folks what they appear to desire.

 

So +1 to that (sorry Protunia...couldn't resist! )

[Nydos 0]

+1 Glob idea

 

(sorry Protunia, i assume you had bad time on Chaos, can i have your loot? )

[Drpox 73]

pristine and release did not vote to be connected to chaos server they only voted to be connected to xanadu.  Pvpers must figure that since they want xanadu they also must want chaos connected.  It was not part of the conditions of the vote.  -1 to connecting chaos to prisitne and release 

[GorgonKain 355]

pristine and release did not vote to be connected to chaos server they only voted to be connected to xanadu.  Pvpers must figure that since they want xanadu they also must want chaos connected.  It was not part of the conditions of the vote.  -1 to connecting chaos to prisitne and release 

 

As a part of the larger Freedom community you will already be connected (albeit a few times removed) to Chaos! Grats! Now that you are going to be a part of the cluster as a whole, you have to deal with the cluster and what the majority wish. I am not saying that we always get our wishes, but now you guys vote with everyone else. P&R is no longer the prodigal son, your just another wee server on the good ol' cluster. 

 

It is not like Cele got a vote on being the arse end of the map xD 

[NeoAnderson 242]

Protunia please take your angst elsewhere - trying to have a grown up discussion here.

 

Thanks! 

 

And thanks everyone for engaging so far! RedBaron - you listening? 

[Battlepaw 585]

pristine and release did not vote to be connected to chaos server they only voted to be connected to xanadu.  Pvpers must figure that since they want xanadu they also must want chaos connected.  It was not part of the conditions of the vote.  -1 to connecting chaos to prisitne and release 

 

Tbh, it can be interpreted in many ways, heck just be glad both pristine and release, according that crude little teaser map will have a direct connection to Xandu, heck from what Rolf seemed to be hinting at back when the question first came up for you to be connected to the rest of the community  (before Xandu was announced), it looked like they were planning on connecting you guys to Celebration lol.   

 

One thing I think we all can agree on is that the server connections make a massive difference, both Pristine and Release fought hard to get admitted, and a vote for being added to the cluster, and what this OP is asking for is the consideration of how the restriction of one connection affects our server, which has to be weighed along with the fact that we have PvP here ,and territory shifts.    

 

Though if it was up to me ALL the servers would have connections on all sides, and we have put forward ideas to that affect.  Hell my last pic on server connections had connections on all sides of every server.   Several other players have championed models for their own ideas of connecting the servers like that. Right now however this specific post is asking that the Chaos issue at least be looked at, as we have requested changes to his effect for years and just have been ignored. 

Edited May 30, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Marshlander 188]

I fail to see how connectivity can be such an issue for the one and only PvP server in the cluster. If it's three servers to sail through, it doesn't matter: people will do it if they want to get there. It just makes the experience more epic (urrr... excuse the pun ).

 

What will happen if you connect P&R to the west of Chaos is that our east coast will have MR-related deeds springing up. It'll change the population and makeup of our coastline and is different from connecting a so far unpopulated server.

 

The real problem and issue I have with the suggested/leaked server connections is that before Xanadu, new servers were always connected as last-in-line, added to the outermost border of the known realms. Xanadu on the other hand is really pushed into our faces by being plopped right in the middle (or what will be the new middle)! I suggest people take this with a grain of salt and some cool-headedness, you're not going to be left out because you're not settled in geometric center of the world. Of course some people will flock to what seems to be set-up as the new hub, but life on the rim will continue to be exciting. Smaller, closer-knit communities perhaps, but they will have their specific taste and just as it is with server spawns people will come to realize that life at spawn point isn't everything, and choose a direction of their own.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Marshlander

[GorgonKain 355]

The connection does not even need to neccisarily been on either of the new cluster servers, it just needs to be somewhere. One way entry to Chaos is a serious detriment to its life and gameplay, that is the bottom line here. P&R just seems like the most oblivious choice.

[Marshlander 188]

P&R just seems like the most oblivious choice.

Indeed.

[froggy25 81]

I really don't see any difference in P&R being connected to just Xanadu or also Chaos.... If u don't want to go there, don't go.

[GorgonKain 355]

Hah! Using a pad with auto correct on is *obviously* not helping my case xD

[Bittereinder 265]

@Marshlander, I believe there is a quite a difference in time between going from Chaos > Deliverance > Xanadu > P&R or just being able to do Chaos > P&R

 

Another reason is balance on Chaos.

Currently, the only exit/entrance to Chaos is the east side, which is controlled by MR (south) and JK (north). It would be nice to give other kingdoms the possibility to leave/enter the server from another side and to allow new groups/strongholds to settle on the west coast.

[KanePT 699]

I really don't see the point where Protunia contributes anything at all to the discussion other than being a troll.   

 

I has been an issue for years Kane, ever since the server opened up and only included one side accessibility.    Heck even before the server was Chaos, when Rolf announced that he would connect the server, we all assumed he would have an ounce of common sense and give each side a destination, but his ignorance and lack of knowledge on how the server operates, as well as a complete lact of feedback resulted in the decision to connect only one side.   This has had a few dozen topic over the course of years to unsuccessfully try to bring up the points we need changed.   

 

I honestly don't care how its done, just that each side has a different destination, hell it could be done without doing anything to affect the PvE travel at all, and that has always been a main theme in many of the discussions, even if my own viewpoint leans more to giving us and actual function, as part of the trade routes.    In any case I'd rather anything be done to try to solve the problem at this point.  Its one of the most frustrating aspect of living on the west side of Chaos, and makes it very difficult for the whole map to be used.

 

I've been on Chaos since 2010, in that time I've lived almost entirely on the West side of the server, I've watched the server open up, and I can say the single most detrimental problem is that everything became aligned to one side of the board.     This is a unique problem, as there is no PvP on any other server, and its the pvp, territory control, and the unique features about this server that are also factors on how this server functions.  We have played a massive role in shaping much of PvE experience, just as many of the PvE changes have affected us here.    I know some of the PvE players see it as their mission in life to wipe any aspect of PvP out of the freedom cluster, but yet we persist, and we constantly contribute changes to the gameplay of Wurm, and to the freedom cluster as a whole, some have made PvE more enjoyable, some are hated.  

 

In any case Wurm is a much more vibrant and interesting game, that can offer a variety of play styles because of our existence.   Trying to sweep us under the rug, bury our access to the rest of the cluster, and completely ignore any cries of help is immensely destructive, and really leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I try to talk to new players about how Chaos works.     

 

The map has so munch potential, its a great server, even with the flaws in the mechanics of PvP, I see new players arriving every day, and checking us out.  The two new kingdoms are getting on their feet, and there is talk of another one forming.   This is the kind of thing I have always wanted for the PvP here, to be about more than just MR vs JK, but a lot of variety in factions, alliances, and viewpoints on pvp.   The release of Xandu will be just as important for us, and our population, as it will be for the rest of the cluster, even more important than the respawning of dragons will be.    The fresh faces will help to swell the ranks of the PMKs, and will play a vital role in them getting off their feet.    

You misread my post, what i mean is this thread isn't a real issue.

Chaos is by default a fringe server in the PvE cluster due to its PvP nature, by all rights as soon as it regained its PvP nature it should have reverted to the old model of access through Portals. So how its linked is a non-issue, and the only reason i can see for this to even come up is people that actually were dreaming of pillaging passers-by if by any chance Xanadu was to the west of Chaos. Of course the devs aren't that thick, and chose a proper model.

 

 

IMO the old system where is was seperate and a portal was used to get there was the best one.

My sentiments exactly. Also to keep things fair in the armor department i'd vote for Dragon armor to be server-bound (like writs) so that if a dragon is slain on a server that hide doesn't get sold-off to chaos.

Edited May 30, 2014 by KanePT

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

My sentiments exactly. Also to keep things fair in the armor department i'd vote for Dragon armor to be server-bound (like writs) so that if a dragon is slain on a server that hide doesn't get sold-off to chaos.

That won't work. Why? Because the hide would be turned to coin before it left the server... and they will never block coin transfer due to it being sold in the shop for real life currency.

[Coastis 321]

Why is it that Chaos constantly demands and seems to receive special treatment?

 

-1 As it's purely a bandaid over a larger problem.

[Mordraug 2,542]

If Chaos wants a western exit, yeah why not.......... 

 

But -1 connecting to P&R...... some unsavory characters are best kept at a distance.  I'll leave it at that.

[Rauthr 23]

As an east coast denizen on Release, I'd welcome having it connected because it'd have little negative consequence for me, and despite preferring PvE by large, I respect the choice and wishes of the PvP population.

+ 1 for connecting with Chaos, it'd/it'll be interesting

[NeoAnderson 242]

If Chaos wants a western exit, yeah why not.......... 

 

But -1 connecting to P&R...... some unsavory characters are best kept at a distance.  I'll leave it at that.

 

Not as if their shores will be invaded by angry West pvp'ers haha

[Battlepaw 585]

You misread my post, what i mean is this thread isn't a real issue.

Chaos is by default a fringe server in the PvE cluster due to its PvP nature, by all rights as soon as it regained its PvP nature it should have reverted to the old model of access through Portals. So how its linked is a non-issue, and the only reason i can see for this to even come up is people that actually were dreaming of pillaging passers-by if by any chance Xanadu was to the west of Chaos. Of course the devs aren't that thick, and chose a proper model.

 

Due to our PvP nature?  Fringe?  Heh, That's not exactly the way I'd describe the PvP community.    A good portion of the people who live on the PvE server come to Chaos to PvP.  We fought tooth and nail to get admitted to the cluster and we have been well justified by that decison with the effect it has had on our server's activity,   The portals, were in effect killing us.    After the changes to GV, and adding Epic, we could't keep our population up, heck on our busy hours sometimes, were seeing only a dozen players on the server.   What we have now is a much larger population overall, every graph and statistic indicates a steady rise in players over the yeas since we opened.  Back when we were shut off, the server population was so stagnent, and low, you would often see no change for months, then some small spikes as one sinde or another recurited, etc.    I know, I payed close attention to the graphs, and worried over them when Wild was dying off. 

 

In terms of us just salivating to ambush players along the border, heck, your completely right Kane, you got me mate, we have nothing better to do than sit on a server border, where any passerby can just cross back over the second one of us comes in local. I'd rather waste my time trying to take control of the endless shark infestation in the lake next to Hunter's lodge, at least that would be slightly less futile.  

 

Heck with all the servers open, all a traveler needs to do is follow along a border and jump back whenever they are in trouble.   Honestly, the whole risk fact is neglatible, unless you actually come deep into the server's waters, and even then in my own experience in chaseing enemy ships, the advantage is totally with the escapee.  I've been pursued a few times on open water, and also been killed while on a boat.  The single time I was killed was because I AFK sailed head on into a JK when I got confused and headed north instead of south during a raid.  (Ahhh the noob ole days... lol)  

 

If anything its going to put our deeds along the west shoreline at great disadvantage to the same kind of smash and grab raiders, the east side has had steady issues with players just quickly running back over the server borde to safety before we can get defenders to the area.   We have the trade off of access finally, but the price is quite steep as well.

 

 

My sentiments exactly. Also to keep things fair in the armor department i'd vote for Dragon armor to be server-bound (like writs) so that if a dragon is slain on a server that hide doesn't get sold-off to chaos.

I do have to say, its freaking annoying when I see a set get sold off the server, though I don't see the issue anymore, since it looks like there will be a steady supply over the years to help drive down costs, and demand, since groups of player that want the armor can actually find dragons in the future, and kill them, rather then have players just sit on the supply and drive up the price however much they think people are willing to pay.   This always put us at a disadvantage, especially when the sale is conducted in silver rather than euros, since players on Chaos have a lot less silver income.   

 

Armor being server bound is just silly, there is no push for us to go back to the old system, and it would be stupid to make an investment in silver, or euros in armor, or attend a rare event like a dragon slaying and not being able to use the armor how you choose, either on Chaos or on Xandu, whatever.   The whole new play style of the server revolves around our interaction with the rest of the cluster, part of that style comes with the choice of where a player wants to spend his time, and if he enjoys PvP or PvE, or a mix of both.   

Edited May 30, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Audrel 2,223]

I don't know if I said it in this thread or elsewhere, but...

 

The map right now is Chaos > Old Cluster > Xanadu < P&R

 

Make it round, Chaos > Old Cluster > Xanadu < P&R < Chaos

 

You get exactly no closer to Xanadu than you were before.

 

Instead of wanting connected to the east side of P&R, I would be asking to be put on the north or south side of Xanadu so you have a direct connection to the center of the new world instead of sailing through a cluster either way to get to it.

 

EDIT: My disclaimer in this case is invalid. Chaos got a short stick. No denying it.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Audrel