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waarokku

about exploitive nature and veteran advantage

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The only thing I come away with from this post is that there must be truly little to complain about in this game if people have to post the same complaints over and over again. Honestly, I'll be glad to see the end of land grabbing with non-deeded fencing and such. I'm a bit tired of not being able to travel across Deli without having to make major detours for miles of fences. As for old players having the advantage, indeed they do. But they got that way through hard work and lots of investments in time and money. That's the way life works. I, personally, will not be seeing Xanadu, I never leave Deli, but it sounds like something Wurm needs to bring in more players and more money. I wish the team well with the release.


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I think they plan on having more than one starting town this time anyway. I don't think we need ten but i can see having four maybe since it is four times the size of Independence. (Maybe a North, South, East and West Xanadu)

 

I actually REALLY like this idea.

 

This will allow players like me (Hermits) To go into the middle, well around it (im sure someone will want a huge market in the middle...errr >_<) so we can live by ourselves. (and prove we don't give a crap about "coastal" deeds!) :P

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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT

Wow, the forum climate has really been spiralling downwards ever since Rolf intervened in that raiding party to give unfair advantage to MR players. The discontentment has been palpable ever since.

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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT

Wow, the forum climate has really been spiralling downwards ever since Rolf intervened in that raiding party to give unfair advantage to MR players. The discontentment has been palpable ever since.

The only thing unfair about that was the reinforced cave wall not destroying after a successful disintegrate spell was cast. That and the fact that safe vaults existed despite being considered an exploit by Rolf.

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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT

The only thing unfair about that was the reinforced cave wall not destroying after a successful disintegrate spell was cast. That and the fact that safe vaults existed despite being considered an exploit by Rolf.

Would MR have sat there for hours wasting Favor and time trying to get a successful cast of disintegrate off if they had not confirmed with ROLF first through IRC that it is meant to be possible to destroy a reinforced tile?

 

Before you go on a rant about it was Exploit etc - Just remember that Most MR / JK and BL deeds have Safe vaults on deed as it was thought this was intended.

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I'm by no means an old player, and my stats aren't terrific, but yet I still managed to outfit my newbie neighbors with 75ql studded sets and 50ql weapons for no cost.  Those vets are a crafty, insidious bunch...


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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT

Wow, really? I spoke about the fact that it is Rolf's fault that the playerbase is pissed off and so a forum mod removes my post?

It's not like I said anything even REMOTELY insulting and it was all truth. I wasn't slagging a staff member or anything of the sorts, I was simply pointing out that the forum climate has been poor ever since Rolf stepped in during a raiding party. Censoring posts that don't need to be censored is a great way off pissing off even more people though, so if that is what you (the forum mod) is aiming for then congratulations, you have succeeded.

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There's really no way to govern who takes the "best" areas nearby starter deeds, as "best" is very subjective.

 

Actually there is. I seem to recall having a large deed by the name of Xanadu next to the starter town of Samling on the Indy server. Then Samling was "governed" away, renamed, and placed in a new spot on the Indy map. So please forgive me if I call BS on this comment.

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I read about 2lines into the OP and then decided my brain didnt need this kind of stress today. 


I would love to be able able to add something to the discussion but it's called basic grammar and punctuation. Without it makes my brain ouchy....


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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT

"The only thing unfair about that was the reinforced cave wall not destroying after a successful disintegrate spell was cast. That and the fact that safe vaults existed despite being considered an exploit by Rolf." - Roman (Quoting thing was broken)


 


Disintegrate not working on reinforced/veins was suppose to be intended. Hence BL never had the ability to Strongwall and Disintegrate.


Since Disintegrate not working on reinforced tiles was a bug... 


BL never having Disintegrate was a bug too?


 


Stop calling the "reinforced tile not breaking after a successful disintegrate spell was cast" unfair. 


You got the best of us, sure, but stop lying to yourselves. 


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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT

Please stay on topic

 

So you consider the posts nagging the OP for his spelling and grammar to me more on-topic than my comments on how the forum climate has gone downhill because of Rolf's involvement during a raid? Because they aren't, my posts were much more relevant to the topic and yet my comments were removed while the grammar nitpicking got to stay.

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Oh yay I missed this.

 

Wow it's hard to even see what to start with this post. But I guess I'll just say that almost EVERY online game will always "favor" vets and those who are willing to spend RL money on the game. I cannot see any possible workable system that would provide any possible fix to this. I mean sure you can say "oh open up Xanadu to new accounts first before opening the borders" but all that would happen then would be vet and money bags players would create new accounts and pop down place holder deeds, thus solving nothing. 

 

Ultimately though I dont even see a problem with vet players and people willing to spend money on the game having an advantage is a bad thing in the slightest. It's rare that any of these advantages will actually impede your enjoyment of the game, sometimes you may have to work alittle harder to achieve your goals but nothing is stopping you, in most cases. As for land claims etc, what is wrong with first come first served? I mean you can complain that older players have taken land that you wanted but what gives you more of a right to that land than the other person? Really there is nothing game breaking about this in my opinion. Veteran players are around because they are faithful to the game and have contributed tot he game and it's community in one way or another, they should have their earned advantages. People that are willing to spend money on the game are also great for the game and thus should be kept around.

 

In an ideal world I can understand the complaint made by the OP but from a realistic and problem solving stand point I see neither a possible solution to the aforementioned points nor a need for there to be a solution.  As for the epic/silvers transfer thing, I don't know enough about it to make an informed judgement, however I have never heard or witnessed it being much of a problem and I'm still unsure why it would be a bad thing. 

Edited by Emoo
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youre changing rules on legal enclosure,legal highway,perimeter,some to save gm's effort and work. though thats their sole purpose and function. but also because things were used in ways unintended and seen as exploitaive. i really dont get the changing legal highway thing regardless of your explanations but whatever. you want to level the playing field,seeing vets as having unfair advantage over noobs. i refer to you liking the idea of capping things made offdeed to 20 ql among other things. other things like opening the xanadu server closed for a few weeks,to give people a chance to establish unimpeded. which people? i dont really buy any of your explanations for any of this. i think youre just toadying to your pvp buddys whining whims. maybe not. heres a chance to see how hollow your words are. i was on pristine and release when they opened. unfair advantage went to the guy with the most coin. it will be the same with xanadu. how do new folks and casual players not have a disadvantage against vets with loads of coin? i saw the pris/rel start areas get settled hard and quick by big deeds by vet's alts. making the very new/casual folks you say you value work harder to establish. vets could throw down deeds with large amounts of coin available when those same new/casual folks would have to buy it from your shop,and never have as much as those vets. and then having a harder time finding spots,and surviving while staking them. i dont care how big xanadu will be,vets with large amounts of coin will get preference. the start areas will get settled by them forcing "lessor" players to greater extremes. being able to trade coin via epic is surely an exploitive measure,unintended. and this matters to you,your words-or why start the server closed for a few weeks to give folks time to establish. making them roll new toons/alts to do so? it only favors the vets. for a true level playing field you should block trading coin to and from epic servers. you either meant what you said,or you just pick and choose what exploits weigh against you and your buddies. and which ones give advantage.

 

Wall of text hits you deadly hard in the face.  You die.

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GMs' sole function is to deal with enclosure issues and highways rules? That is way out of the ballpark; they are there to help fix bugs that occur throughout the game to players, and to my knowledge, the enclosure rule wasn't always in place either, so what did GM's do before that? It will be impossible to stop people from being able to drop mega deeds on prime land right when a server opens, and it is crazy you think that it is possible.


 


This bias and hatred against veterans in just really old, and is nothing different then poorer people in real life taking stabs at much richer folk. It weak argument, especially when, through hard work you can actually get to that level, and choose instead to take crap shots at more established players, simply for being there before you. You can't just jump into a game and expect to start at the top, work your way there instead of complaining.


 


Veterans will always have the advantage, and there isn't ANYTHING wrong with that. You won't come across a game in which it will be fair and equal for the entire life of the game. And, if you have so many issues with the game, why stay with it?


 


(Posted as a player not as staff)


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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - OT

Please stay on topic

What is the topic ... would you prefer we rant like the op?

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I want to start by saying I love these posts. :)


 


I am by no means a vet. I have played for a year and my highest skill is 72.


 


So.... You don't want wurm to have a "veteran advantage." The only way would be to first off remove skills, because that is the biggest exploit. I mean why can't I build a knarr day one, kill a dragon and make 9000 ql drake? The next step will be to remove money, that way when rich kids join deli they don't start 30x30 deeds in my backyard put a gold on it and I have to watch 60 some live stock he bought die of starvation. It would also get rid of all the chat about selling stuff that hides all the fart jokes. Then remove mounts so everyone travels at the same blistering slow pace. I just broke 42+ km/h on my horse so unfair(I almost vomited from the blur). And last but not least go play mindcraft. This game was not built to be easy. That is what makes it fun and wogical.


 


Or... you can see what others have and see that with enough hard work, in game or irl, you too can do a lot of stuff in wurm. Yeah it would be nice if you could get government subsidies in wurm but then who's going to pay that bill?


 


PS If I started a new character today and used none of my previously gain connections. I would still have the advantage over someone who never played before. Is that fair? All I did was read the wiki, what no one does that, and ask legitimate questions that challenged people to conduct test to disprove me. That and I'm willing to spend money, say it isn't so, on a game I enjoy playing and I'm not even middle class.


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The advantage vets have is hardly unfair as the put the time and effort into gaining the skills and coin in the first place.


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i was on pristine and release when they opened. unfair advantage went to the guy with the most coin. it will be the same with xanadu. how do new folks and casual players not have a disadvantage against vets with loads of coin? i saw the pris/rel start areas get settled hard and quick by big deeds by vet's alts. making the very new/casual folks you say you value work harder to establish. vets could throw down deeds with large amounts of coin available when those same new/casual folks would have to buy it from your shop,and never have as much as those vets. and then having a harder time finding spots,and surviving while staking them. i dont care how big xanadu will be,vets with large amounts of coin will get preference. the start areas will get settled by them forcing "lessor" players to greater extremes. being able to trade coin via epic is surely an exploitive measure,unintended. and this matters to you,your words-or why start the server closed for a few weeks to give folks time to establish. making them roll new toons/alts to do so? it only favors the vets. for a true level playing field you should block trading coin to and from epic servers. you either meant what you said,or you just pick and choose what exploits weigh against you and your buddies. and which ones give advantage.

And yet people(like you) still fail to see this and are asking for another pristine/release because they want an "equal" chance. Not happening. 

Edited by atazs

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hm....im a bit wondering where exactly the disadvantage is? are we talking about "best spots taken"? because I thought in wurm it's about "MAKE something out of spots" no matter the starting point....


 


and even if people have lots of money to buy a deed right ahead, the only thing that they can use it for is owning some land and hiring spirit templars....O.o and they could hire villagers 


 


Also...older players are probably bringing in the payment for those who WANT to earn money without using the cash shop....that money is coming from somewhere afterall...and people with less money like newbies are probably less willing to pay a worker for making planks for them....


 


so where exactly is the disadvantage of having old, rich veteran players on a new server?


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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - bashing
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - bashing

wahh wahh boohoo  that guy has more money then me and deeded more so he must be a vet. Waarokku, your a moron, cant sad id be sad to see a troll  squash your head in a few million times.  You just want easy money, you want greed,  You cant get greed because someone has  a fatter wallet then you and chances is thats a new player mass buying land, WTF do ya think i did when i started, found out  traders were useful, having the best veins will pay for itsself later on down the road, the massive land will pay out big later with farming and wood cutting. i am sorry your so stupid that you can to a sandbox without a real sandbox players  type of thinking because we know to hoard stuff and start mass collecting and planing ahead. im sorry your too retarded to read up on a game before ya play it so you know how its like, wat to expect, wat to do,  that ya failed to read the wikis. also sorry you can have your precious deed by the water, have animals handed to ya and you get instant richs and gratification. Well dumbass you never will, because Us vets busted our asses to get wat we have, we took the time to grind our skills and learn everything we can about everything. we forged great friendships with each other, helped  tons of new players who are all extremely greatful to have us around because we gavem a jumpstart ingame to gettem going.oh the horror vets are soo evil, they need beheaded for making the wiki, posting guides on gameplay,  selling or giving away tools for new players, having impalongs to help new players get a better advantage. Geesh  guess we are  pure evil!.     However, if ya want to have hatred toward vets, Toss me a message, ill give ya a damn good reason to hate ME and  ill assist ya on whether or not you should be operating a computer and then we can chat about how you managed to gather so much brain power to most these posts!.   I love these new turds, i just wanna flushem all down the toilet................................


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Posted (edited) · Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - bashing
Hidden by sunsvortex, May 7, 2014 - bashing

What I see, is dumb one, who is crying, that around him are more clever and more enterprising individuals.
And this dumb one want that every one around have to undergo a lobotomy to be as dumb as he is or even worse.
And why? Only to that dumb one have feeling world around him is fair?

You all trying to argue with him, trying to show him your point of view? Why? He do not understand you single word from it :D:P

Edited by Zakerak

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I hope you guys realize despite your attempts at trolling Waarrokku, your antagonistic posts all pretty much agree with what he said. 


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As some others have pointed out, veteran players should always have advantages over new players in the various ways in which they have *earned* them. Through time spent playing they game they have progressed to these levels. This is the concept of earning abilities and advantages over time. A pretty straight forward concept that is a reflection of how life works outside of our Wurm environment. Those who can not realize this and want things that others have out of envy, will have just as hard of a time within Wurm as they will out in the real world. Nothing really a revelation in this respect.


 


As for other points within the OP, I find that searching through that convoluted disjointed attempt at an assembly is simply not worth the effort. There will always be some points to be considered contrary to ones own but fewer will be those who wish to consider them when this impediment is created from the start.


 


=Ayes=


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