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Sylver

Complaint about minimum upkeep cost

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There should be a thread for complaints.

 

I am pretty fed up at the moment.

 

I have one settlement of 300 tiles with a templar that costs me 1.6 silver a month, and I needed a second settlement (which I founded with an alt). I spent a long time calculating size and costs, following the information provided in Wurmpedia. My new settlement is 228 tiles and according to Wurmpedia, the upkeep costs 20 iron per tile, so I expected to pay 45.6 coppers/month.

 

After founding the deed, I discover there is a minimum upkeep cost of 1 silver/month. What is the reason for this? Is it to force us to build large deeds even when we don't need to?

 

And why isn't it mentioned in Wurmpedia that there's a minimum monthly upkeep cost of 1 silver? (see http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement#Founding).

 

One disgruntled player.

 

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No, it is because you will pay a minimum a month to have a deed, even a small one.  The cost is quite small and has always been this way.  It is really your own fault to not read all the wiki info before setting up a deed.


Edited by Vroomfondel
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No, it is because you will pay a minimum a month to have a deed, even a small one.  The cost is quite small and has always been this way.  It is really your own fault to not read all the wiki info before setting up a deed.

 

Maybe you should read the wiki info before laying the fault on someone. I provided the link just for the sake of any wise guys who would say just this.

Edited by Sylver

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the minimum 1 silver a month is mentioned in the information window when founding the deed.


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Where? I read the info window pretty thoroughly while I was founding the deed and did not see any mention of this. In fact I distinctly remember reading that the upkeep would be 45.6 coppers, and thinking "great, I got the calculations right."


Edited by Sylver

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If I could send you 50 cents I would then you'd be set. 


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Where? I read the info window pretty thoroughly while I was founding the deed and did not see any mention of this. In fact I distinctly remember reading that the upkeep would be 45.6 coppers, and thinking "great, I got the calculations right."

iirc, it says it on the same page that displays your future upkeep, it will say something along the lines of your upkeep will be 45.6 coppers per month, but a minimum of 1s per month is required.

 

I don't have a settlement form or I would quote it exactly for you :/ I remember a warning in it though

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Maybe somebody should think of including the info also in the wiki. Now I have a really awkward deed shape, difficult to enlarge as it's on the edge of the water and marshland. So I'm afraid your replies have not cheered me up even one tiny bit. But that obviously was not anybody's intention.


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And I still don't see why there is a minimum fee of 1 silver for upkeep, the fact that it's always been like this is hardly a good reason.


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Sorry for your issues, it does seem odd the wiki neglects to mention this explicitly. However the cost calculating tools provided by the wiki do include this as a feature since they will always give 1s as a minimum price. And it does include the information ingame, wiki being maintained by players as a volunteer service does mean it's not prone to being 100% accurate. There is a suggestion part on the forum where wiki issues like this can be addressed, or you could ask for an account to do the modifications yourself.


 


I don't feel it's our responsibility to cheer you up however. I realize you're upset, but it was an honest mistake that we were in no way responsible for.


 


Edit: And if you feel like making a well supported argument on why deeds shouldn't have a minimum cost, you can always try your luck in the Suggestions forum. I've personally never heard the Dev justification for this.


Edited by Sevenless
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If its any consolation, your original deed would be 1s without the templar, if you hire one for this deed, youd only be paying 1s 45c  thats a half price templar!


 


It's always been a minimum of 1s, and i would assume its to avoid being able to easily found decade long deeds that are minimum size


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There should be a thread for complaints.

I am pretty fed up at the moment.

I have one settlement of 300 tiles with a templar that costs me 1.6 silver a month, and I needed a second settlement (which I founded with an alt). I spent a long time calculating size and costs, following the information provided in Wurmpedia. My new settlement is 228 tiles and according to Wurmpedia, the upkeep costs 20 iron per tile, so I expected to pay 45.6 coppers/month.

After founding the deed, I discover there is a minimum upkeep cost of 1 silver/month. What is the reason for this? Is it to force us to build large deeds even when we don't need to?

And why isn't it mentioned in Wurmpedia that there's a minimum monthly upkeep cost of 1 silver? (see http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement#Founding).

One disgruntled player.

so if I might ask...

you used the costs breakout posted after the link to the deed calculator, but didn't try the calculator first/as well?

the calculator defaults to the minimum size, and reports a total upkeep of 1s.

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Maybe you should read the wiki info before laying the fault on someone. I provided the link just for the sake of any wise guys who would say just this.

 

I did, check settlement and this is line 2 of the description:

 

See this website for details about the new deed system introduced in February of 2010: http://sites.google.com/a/wurmonline.com/new-deed-system/

 

Check the link in detail and you will see it does tell you under Quick Costs it says, "Note: There is a minimum upkeep of 1 silver per month".

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my guess is the 1s requirment is to "attempt" to prevent someone from making 50 deeds to completely own a area with.....10c? ish deeds.


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To be honest, the cost was considered a deal at the time of the 2010 update.  Before that update, deeds were very limited in sizes and had to be placed very far apart, they were much more expensive per tile, and montlhy upkeep was much higher.  The current system has a lot of history to it that new players do not yet understand.


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I edited the wiki for future reference :)


Keep in mind the wiki is updated by volunteers :)


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Relying on a player made wiki for your ingame decisions is bound to land you in trouble especially with a game like Wurm where many mechanics are shrouded in mystery as to their exact workings and those that are openly known often get played around with and changed. 


 


I suspect there is a min cost to try and stop as many "place holder" deeds being placed down. Simply to prevent other players form using the space and then not using the space themselves. Atleast this way it's still possible to abuse the system but it's profitable for Rolf but the min cost to place such a deed also reduces the number of people who would attempt to do this, thus minimizing the problem. I don't see any problem with the current system because of this reason, I think it's good for both the game and Rolf's pocket. 


 


I hope this answers any questions you may have about why such a min cost exists and like I mentioned DO NOT refer to the Wiki for instruction if you would be upset by finding out the information isn't accurate ;)


Edited by Emoo
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Many small deeds could also be chained together with buildings on the perimeter (min perimeter of 2 deeds is 2x5, max length of a building is 14). So if the min upkeep of 1s is removed, then people could use alts to deed and secure only the outside of a very large area, the inside would not have be deeded as it won't be accessible to others due to the deeds and buildings on the outside blocking all access. Now imagine living somewhere and suddenly overnight somebody deeded/secured the entire area around you, locking you in while he only has to pay around 0.5s worth of upkeep to keep you trapped. Sounds great, right?


 


There's also the issue Emoo mentioned. It would be very cheap to put a small deed at any rare resource. Hey, a tar pit -> deed for a negligible amount of upkeep per month. Hey, clay -> deed for negligible amount of upkeep per month, etc.


 


Deeds are very powerful tools, open to abuse. By putting a minimum upkeep on them it becomes more expensive to abuse them, greatly reducing the frequency at which the abuse occurs.


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From the link the OP linked :


 



Upkeep

Upkeep money is taken from the village funds every month (one month being 28 days). If the upkeep fund is depleted, the settlement is disbanded automatically. A large upkeep fund reduces decay on buildings and fences in the settlement. If the fund has more than a month of upkeep, there is no decay at all. Upkeep can be paid at the token under Settlement > Info or Settlement > Manage guards, or from the Settlement deed paper under Village > Manage guards. Anyone can donate money to the upkeep fund at the token, even non-citizens. There is a minimum 1 silver cost for upkeep.

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From the link the OP linked :

 

Upkeep

Upkeep money is taken from the village funds every month (one month being 28 days). If the upkeep fund is depleted, the settlement is disbanded automatically. A large upkeep fund reduces decay on buildings and fences in the settlement. If the fund has more than a month of upkeep, there is no decay at all. Upkeep can be paid at the token under Settlement > Info or Settlement > Manage guards, or from the Settlement deed paper under Village > Manage guards. Anyone can donate money to the upkeep fund at the token, even non-citizens. There is a minimum 1 silver cost for upkeep.

 

Necroe added that about an hour before your post:

 

 

I edited the wiki for future reference :)

Keep in mind the wiki is updated by volunteers :)

 

The previous version of the page did not have that text, it was on the other page linked within the Settlement details explaining the "New Deed" system as Vroomfondel pointed out earlier.

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am I the only one missing part of the OP?

deed with a Templar that costs 1.6s ?

min monthly upkeep is 1s, Templars cost 1s each month... so 1 deed + 1 Templar = 2s a month No?

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I understand your frustration, but you know Wiki's in general are not official sources of info, right?


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