Xanadu = New Cluster

[atazs 965]

You can't seriously be claiming that a fresh toon has the same chance to establish a profitable (yeah you left that out) business as a character that is 9 years ahead in skills? A fresh toon does have a chance to establish a business selling bricks and mortar, and whatever else veterans can't be bothered with making, but are you seriously claiming that they have the SAME chance? If that is the case, then there is no reason whatsoever to allow old toons on a fresh server, since you will all have the same chance if you make a new character as well....

They have the same chance, yes. People like OP should start grinding skills if they want to get into the market instead of coming here to complain how they have no chance. Nobody has magically gained skills, we worked for it instead of coming here to complain.

Besides i know several people who started last year or the year before and are way ahead of me in skills and others who have been here for more than that. 

Edited April 30, 2014 by atazs

[Lithien 268]

Actually, yes, yes they do.

 

Currently happening on deli between 2+ people, both new toons, 1 is a old vet, the other not, and both own the market for a good majority...

 

And I really wish people stopped focusing on the market, Honestly, I wish there was none at this point, it's annoying how limited things are due to it. Some of us wish to play on the new map simply to be away from everyone else, keep to ourselves, on are already-built up characters...

 

So you either screw up the already poor market, or from the looks of it, the majority of players moving there.

 

 

Anyone has a fair chance at the market, a new or old player, if they advertise themselves enough. if they're friendly and can get along and make good chat, even better! It's not all about skills: it's more about reputation in this game. and skills, do not = reputation.

 

I think you have me seriously confused now.

 

You use 2 new toons (one played by a vet) to show that and old toon and a new toon have the same chance? 

 

When the whole point was that yes, they do have a way more even chance when they are both on new toons, but not when one is playing a 9 year old character?

[Druidnature 1,118]

For what it's worth - it seems the vets prefer Pristine over Release, and those 2 servers seem to be very different although joined. Now tell me which vets are dominating the market on Release?

And at the end of the day, those vets who moved over may have more knowledge (although you can get a lot of that by just reading wiki and forums), but what makes you think vets have more time or tools to get to 90 when they didn't get to bring the tools with them, and last I checked daily playtime has never depended on how long you have played a game.

Playtime does however play a big part on a fresh server. A new player with lots of playtime has a better chance than a vet with limited playtime.

Vets had friends from old cluster that grinded seperate skills to compliment each other, thus power-housing each other. They also somewhat did the same with priest.

Also, wiki information is exactly why I said vets have the advantage. Wiki is great for learning the basics, but anything more ends up being false, or a straight lie. Don't even go to the priest section on it.... That's a whole different story!

Forums you'll mostly find good info, but in the end it all comes down to close friends / finding out yourself (by accident in most cases) the real advantages.

I'm not saying no new players did this - IE: had there friend grind blacksmith/mining for tools ect and the other grind woodcut/carp ect, but vets definitely did this a lot more often.

Had a friend that recently returned to deli after exploiting P&R for profit, now he's left until Xanadu is a new cluster (which it's not, just what he was hoping) though at least he did it all fairly.

In the end, it comes down to why "should" we have to level are skills again? Especially when, as I've said, it's more based off of your own reputation. I see no reason punishing the players that don't care for trading, or anything like it, and just wish to play on a new server.

New players can still go to P&R to, though that's likely to be connected soon. We can't just keep making new servers every year/two. Which, sadly, will be asked again next year anyway.

[Lithien 268]

I didn't vote on this poll, as it is pointless. The decision has been made and announced about Xanadu, and the last thing I would want is for them to change that and screw over all those vets who are preparing to move.

 

I do not hate vets.

 

I understand vets wanting new servers to play around on old characters, and I understand new players who like fresh servers that give them a more even (not equal) playing field.

 

I just don't understand vets who don't understand, or just don't want to admit to seeing, how a fresh server appeals to new players.

 

Shutting up now.

[Raamkozijn 201]

If we were to be given yet more new clusters, I wonder how long it'll take for a standard bi-annual new clusters release to be implemented.

If a new cluster were to be opened today, give it a few months and then new players will be suggesting a new server cluster to be opened so they can start on a fresh cluster without any "veterans" (Yes, expect even a few months' old characters to be called veterans in a newbie's eyes) that are impossible to compete with (again, in their point of view).

 

And then? Add a new cluster? I mean we already have several by then, what does a new cluster or 2 hurt?

 

My guess is that it'll make the playerbase thinned out in such amounts that at some point seeing even 1 of the clusters hitting >100 players total online will be a very rare sight. In my opinion it just won't work unless there's a huge playerbase which is expanding exponentially.

 

If we were to be given another new cluster, where would it end? What would make this currently hoped-for new cluster have as valid reason to be implemented but no future ones in the way described above?

 

 

As much as I can see how a fresh cluster would be great for some new players and old players alike, objectively speaking I just don't see the few benefits (for most or all, not a handful of players) I can think of outweigh the negatives it would cause.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

-edit-

missed a few words

Edited April 30, 2014 by Raamkozijn

[Druidnature 1,118]

I didn't vote on this poll, as it is pointless. The decision has been made and announced about Xanadu, and the last thing I would want is for them to change that and screw over all those vets who are preparing to move.

I do not hate vets.

I understand vets wanting new servers to play around on old characters, and I understand new players who like fresh servers that give them a more even (not equal) playing field.

I just don't understand vets who don't understand, or just don't want to admit to seeing, how a fresh server appeals to new players.

Shutting up now.

I don't think anyone will disagree that it definitely appeals to new players, but the last two were "devoted" to new players... Why can't vets have be allowed on one with there original characters? If these new players that start today, and 2 years from now are told a new servers being opened, but there old characters aren't allowed.... How will all there time spent feel rewarding then?

That's the point I'm trying to make, not that I disagree with the new players perspective, but they have had two bones, time to throw one to the rest of the player base.

[Kegan 3,926]

Equal rights for loyal player..chant chant chant  (where is my picket sign at?)

 

Seriously though we have been waiting for almost two years now while the "new players" got the new servers to play on this one should go for everyone. 

[Marshlander 188]

The vets versus new player discussion misses the point.

 

What the fresh start did for everyone was months of not being able to buy services that would alter the "start up" experience. I came in a few weeks after Release opened, and everyone was simply busy with their own projects. There weren't any vets actively selling stuff as it is now. The best armor I would have been able to get from a merchant (heck, more likely a trader) would be ql30 chainmail! And the weapon market was much more pronouncedly low ql.

 

Nowadays, a couple of silver will clad any new toon in an armor and weapon where they can take on spiders and more from the start. Same for horses, boats, etc. Same for mailing services, enchanted gear, etc.

[Druidnature 1,118]

I think you have me seriously confused now.

You use 2 new toons (one played by a vet) to show that and old toon and a new toon have the same chance?

When the whole point was that yes, they do have a way more even chance when they are both on new toons, but not when one is playing a 9 year old character?

Sorry missed this.

The point is, two players, one vet - one not, on new characters own deli market...

Don't pay attention to the vet Vs this new player, notice the "both on new characters" on deli, that has many, many old players. Yet, somehow, both of these people are doing very well market wise, lately they've been falling a bit (though the entire market has, not just them) but I know the one guy has made well over 3-4g, I'm not sure on the other, I'm guessing a lot though due to him still expanding inventory.

So what I'm trying to say is, new characters (owned by a vet or totally new player that is good at marketing) can easily compete in the market of old servers. The problem is most new people see "oh, Druid has 90 in every skill, no way I can compete with that!" But they have to remember also, nobody can, or will, do all those skills.

I think the main problem is every new player aims for 90 blacksmithing thinking it will be the most profitable skill, when it's the easiest skill to get high, and everyone has it. So there's not much money to be there.

(Though, that new player raised blacksmithing first and is making a ton of money of it, despite being one of the lower blacksmiths on the server) the guy didn't even have to undercut prices, just had to get his name out there.

The market, and for that matter the game, is what you make it. I just wish new players noticed they have a very good chance at being competitive in the market on the old clusters, so we could get more fresh blood.

Wait, what am I saying? I want to be a hermit! /runs for the hills

[Orb 259]

Voted no. Keep the community together. Shouldn't have EVER been split. Splitting pvp was dumb, splitting pve is dumb. 

[AbsolutelyNobody 289]

Everyone has a chance to compete. It only took me like 3 months to get from 0 to 90 BS. Its not hard and I got a few skills to 50 at the same time. Besides that, don't we have the same problem again after xanadu has been open for a year?

[Gypsy 138]

Forget my crafting skills, no WAY I'd leave my building skills, fighting skills, or my characteristics behind. That's madness. 

 

Not everything in this game is about markets and competition.

[Emoo 4,357]

No. 

 

We can't set a precident that everytime afew people seem upset that the gap is to big between old and new players you release a new cluster....it's ridiculous. Would just bea easier to reset the game every year or two 

[Sevenless 385]

Even if more people were in favour of this than not.

 

Hell no do I want devs going back on "gamechanging" announcements like this. It's too late to even discuss it with Xanadu anymore. Next server launch maybe talk about it then.

[conmcb25 378]

-1

[Chiqa 742]

No. No more splitting. 

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

To all those that claim you cannot become profitable with players that are already highly skilled around.  I started this game in 2008, 2 years after the game began.  When I started there were many 90+ skilled blacksmiths and weaponsmiths around.  Yes, I bought items from them.  And yes, I paid cash for my toons and deed for 3 years.  And I kept grinding my skills.  I now sell weapons, armors, and tools, and haven't used RL money to pay for anything in 3 years.  So don't tell me you can't be profitable, you just have to have the patience to get there.  If you don't have that patience, then this game is not for you.  Don't try to get them to change it into your game.

[Druidnature 1,118]

To all those that claim you cannot become profitable with players that are already highly skilled around. I started this game in 2008, 2 years after the game began. When I started there were many 90+ skilled blacksmiths and weaponsmiths around. Yes, I bought items from them. And yes, I paid cash for my toons and deed for 3 years. And I kept grinding my skills. I now sell weapons, armors, and tools, and haven't used RL money to pay for anything in 3 years. So don't tell me you can't be profitable, you just have to have the patience to get there. If you don't have that patience, then this game is not for you. Don't try to get them to change it into your game.

Interesting, just wondering (pure curiosity) do you have enough for your deed(s) character(s) and spare for some items?

I know I could do it, I just don't like handling the actual "trade" part of it.... Just like crafting/gathering.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

To answer your question, here is my current status.  I have 3 chars, all prem paid to mid June.  My deed is 67x67, upkeep paid to June also.  I have 70s in the bank, and I still need to go restock my 2 merchants and pick up that cash.  Does that help tell you what patience can do?  And no, I do not own a trader.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Vroomfondel

[AbsolutelyNobody 289]

If you wanna be competitive you do actually have to compete. That means work your ass off to get high skill and make ads and put your name out there. Don't just sit on deed working on 10 different skills and expect people to just come to you. Or wait for a new cluster.

All a new cluster will do is put you on the lack of the veterans for 2 months and then you are behind again because the people who make money know actually work to get the money. And starting over won't change that.

Edited April 30, 2014 by AbsolutelyNobody

[syncaidius 159]

EDIT: TL;DR: Xanadu, New Cluster, more fun for new players

 

More fun for new players where 3/4 of them will probably quit in the first week and never go premium in the first place.

 

All the while, the players who are paying for such a server won't be able to use it without paying yet more money.

 

No thanks.

 

In a way it reminds me of those scams, "You've won £3425, but you have to pay £150 to release it". In fact it feels exactly like that, on a smaller scale....

Edited April 30, 2014 by syncaidius

[PlagueB 76]

Connected. But you cant transfer items, just skills. Now that would be major fun in my opinion.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Connected. But you cant transfer items, just skills. Now that would be major fun in my opinion.

 

All that would accomplish is about a week or 2 delay until those of us with skill get some items made to sell.  And you delay noobs getting to purchase those tools, which they desperately need.  It's not fun, it's a PITA.  The paranoia needs to stop, and all the servers need to be merged, arguments are then over.

[Audrel 2,223]

I want an "I don't care about Xanadu" vote option.

[Judicator 539]

New clusters are 85% more fun, 60% more profitable and 97% more approved by me. Of course it will lead to 73% more complaining from people who want an easy conquest with their old accounts, ruining the fun of new people.