Sign in to follow this  
Alec

Committee Appreciation Thread

Recommended Posts

I knew this committee was a bad idea.  Makes people think this is a democracy and they have a vote.  It's a business, get over it.  If we never hear anything about what the committee is doing, that is Rolf's right as owner.

 

And we can complain about it, that's our right as paying customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Committee = joke


 


Invisible committee = a total farce


  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4. No again. They do not have veto power over Rolf. They shouldn't either. It IS his game whether you agree with his decisions or not.

I'd like to add one thing to this. People need to stop this attitude. Because apparently Rolf starts to believe in this.

This isn't Rolf's game, as a whole the community has put in more effort and money onto wurm than Rolf has. This is "our" game. We're Rolf's clients, and he needs to start understanding this. More so now than ever. Specially after the recent events with his intrusion with PvP. This kind of one-sided decisions need to end. Or Wurm will.

As someone that wants to keep playing wurm, i think its high time that people stop thinking this way. Wurm is a business, not us paying for Rolf's entertainment. And his one-sided decisions are simply hurting him, and this submissive attitude by the community "Its his game, he can do as he pleases" is apparently leading to a "I can't be wrong" mentality from Rolf and the team.

We need this to end, because there's a ton of competition coming up on the horizon, many of them incorporate many of what makes us enjoy wurm but better graphics and overall systems (like archage) or simply look to be Wurm on steroids (Life is Feudal).

So yeah, he might be CEO/Lead dev, but the "i own this" attitude needs to change, or Wurm will not survive. Its not hard to look to the past and see that most (being nice, as i can't think of one that was positive, but i'm leaving space for error) of Rolf's one-sided changes have been detrimental to Wurm's public image and overall perception and enjoyment of the game.

 

Now as to the committee idea.

Its not a bad idea on paper. Now implementation is tricky. First this "anonymous" committee is a terrible, terrible idea. There are other games with this system, LOTRO, LOL, and those members are known and identified on the forums. Why? Because accountability. IF those players are not known, how do we know that the majority of players are represented?

 

Otherwise, we already had a "committee": Rolf's IRC fanclub. You know those same guys that knew that strongwall was "broken" before everyone else did.

Moreover those players should be chosen by the players, not appointed by the staff. Wurm already has enough issues with bias (perceived or real) from the staff.

As for vetoing, of course as a player-based committee their "powers" should be merely consultive. But Rolf (and the staff) should always run their ideas through that committee, instead of just applying game-changing (and breaking sometimes) stuff out of the blue.

 

Even if such comitee is never created the last still applies. Wurm staff needs to take more care into player feedback, and what they take in from that. Saying this because it strikes players as odd that in hundreds of suggestions and feedback collected they sometimes seem to pick the least popular and almost incipient (in terms of representativity) ideas to implement (thinking of the PvP suggestions and choosing the slower tower guards idea for instance).

Edited by KanePT
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if the committee is appointed by the developers is no different than if they hire a new dev. Of course people should be playing the game if they are responsible for developing or making suggestions for it, at least in their spare time once in a while. All a developer appointed committee says is that we have actual people playing the game making suggestions.


 


But from the player base perspective what different is that then how it should be? All the developers should at least play test their mechanics once in a while. It would be special and/or novel if the committee members were elected somehow by the community itself (Not too novel, EVE has that now that I think of it), but that wasn't the case.


 


 


That being said I'm not suggesting players of this game should have more impact on the development. Or that we are not being listened to enough. Frankly our opinions are conflicting at best and at worst completely lacking any knowledge of game design or the game itself in the case of some beginners who make suggestions. We are frankly to deep in the game self interest wise to give properly objective opinions on what is best for the game going forward.


Edited by Sevenless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

May the committee avoid more Rolfish decision and changes?

 

 

 

Nope, not unless the roles are reversed and the committee can fire Rolf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good topic Alec


 


I think its too soon to judge its effectiveness, but recent events show that something is needed to get the staff and community on the same page. It is easy to see that it could definately serve a worthwhile function. As long as its dev monitored and its function is to filter info, and pass along player needs it could save huge amounts of time for the dev team.  I think they should be picked by the devs and i think thier identity should remain concealed, just to eliminate the name calling and drama.  In the end the devs call all the shots. I see a commitee as just a time saving tool for them, and after a period of time it will become clear to all if its working or not. If they choose carefully and represent all play styles proportianately to the amount of players using those styles it could be a great success.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good topic Alec

 

I think its too soon to judge its effectiveness, but recent events show that something is needed to get the staff and community on the same page. It is easy to see that it could definately serve a worthwhile function. As long as its dev monitored and its function is to filter info, and pass along player needs it could save huge amounts of time for the dev team.  I think they should be picked by the devs and i think thier identity should remain concealed, just to eliminate the name calling and drama.  In the end the devs call all the shots. I see a commitee as just a time saving tool for them, and after a period of time it will become clear to all if its working or not. If they choose carefully and represent all play styles proportianately to the amount of players using those styles it could be a great success.

 

 

Problem is it ends up being a suck up contest as to who they pick so unless something changed I don't see things being any different than last time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People said they didn't want this, and Rolf added it anyways. Seriously.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a co... there was a last... what? Why arnt they public and working with the player base?  


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add one thing to this. People need to stop this attitude. Because apparently Rolf starts to believe in this.

This isn't Rolf's game, as a whole the community has put in more effort and money onto wurm than Rolf has. This is "our" game. We're Rolf's clients, and he needs to start understanding

I stopped reading here. Do you own shares of Code Club AB or are in anyway part of the company? No... Well then it's not your game anymore than you own a McDonalds if you go there to lunch daily, or have any controlling power in your phone company, or any other business you're purchasing from or using the services of. It may be in their best interests to keep the majority of their customers happy but that doesn't mean you have any sort of power over the company other than voicing your opinion or voting with your wallet and take your money elsewhere. And the idea that you're trying to convince Rolf otherwise by talking like that and encouraging other people to stop acknowledging that it is indeed Rolf's game is just downright laughable.

Edited by Theodis
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stopped reading here. Do you own shares of Code Club AB or are in anyway part of the company? No... Well then it's not your game anymore than you own a McDonalds if you go there to lunch daily, or have any controlling power in your phone company, or any other business you're purchasing from or using the services of. It may be in their best interests to keep the majority of their customers happy but that doesn't mean you have any sort of power over the company other than voicing your opinion or voting with your wallet and take your money elsewhere. And the idea that you're trying to convince Rolf otherwise by talking like that and encouraging other people to stop acknowledging that it is indeed Rolf's game is just downright laughable.

Apparently you don't get consumer goods. Its true Rolf owns the company, but the problem is that the "this is Rolf's game" excuse is used as a carte blanche for him to act on his whims. This hurts his business and our enjoyment, and as such that attitude that dismisses his mistakes and bad decisions with "its his game" is bad for the game and Rolf's purse actually.

Its ok that you don't understand the implications of this attitude, but maybe i'll just leave you with popular wisdom and you should meditate on why there's a version of the saying "the costumer is always right" in just about any language.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bad decisions

 

What constitutes a bad decisions is mostly subjective. Its never really possible to make a decision everyone will like and thus will always be those who object. At the end of the day the game will be developed as developers want it to be, if you want to you can play it.

 

The committee is there mostly to feed suggestions from players to developers, which they may or man not use. There is no need for this to be a visible process to all.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What constitutes a bad decisions is mostly subjective. Its never really possible to make a decision everyone will like and thus will always be those who object. At the end of the day the game will be developed as developers want it to be, if you want to you can play it.

 

The committee is there mostly to feed suggestions from players to developers, which they may or man not use. There is no need for this to be a visible process to all.

If you want more money, if should be a visible process, because the community does agree on alot of things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want more money, if should be a visible process, because the community does agree on alot of things.

Name one big one :3 hehehe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Name one big one :3 hehehe

 

Lower/raise sails.

Ql of ships/wagons/carts affecting final speed.

One direction deed expansion (already implemented).

Improvements on deed management of permission and roles.

Take keybind working on FSBs, BSBs and Crates.

3D mines.

 

Just to name a few where most of community agree on.

 

If you are looking for one in which 100% of the community agree one then we are out of luck I suppose.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell the committee to remove the stupid animal ratio on PvP servers. It sucks and has no purpose.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The committee is there mostly to feed suggestions from players to developers, which they may or man not use. There is no need for this to be a visible process to all.

 

This is what I don't understand, since no one seems to know who the "committee" is, or how they function, how are they getting suggestions from players? I have seen no interaction or requests for discussions etc.  if they are just cut and pasting you stuff from the forums then they are useless, if they are supposed to be working with the community to generate ideas and usable feedback, they are not.  So are they just feeding you what they want? I am very confused as to how this works and what benefit it is actually having for the player base as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 We are frankly to deep in the game self interest wise to give properly objective opinions on what is best for the game going forward.

 

I said this in the threads announcing the committee. It might not be conscious but they will put forward ideas, which dumb the game down. Things that make it challenging will be avoided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets talk a bit about the committee.

 

 

Do you think that its working right now?

 

Impossible to know since the Committee's members are a secret, their operations and decisions a secret, and their agenda a secret.

 

If it is working, do you think if that they had something to do with this last drama(the FCC/deed stuff right now?

 

Impossible to know or predict.

 

Do you think that the committee would be able to avoid more wide-scale dramas in the future(bashur drama, reinforced mines drama, FCC drama...etc)?

 

Once again, impossible to know or predict.

 

May the committee avoid more Rolfish decision and changes?

 

Once again, impossible to know or predict.

 

Do you think that the committee will improve your particular cluster and play style?

 

If you don't know who they are and don't know what their agenda is, what they care about in Wurm, then how can any of us that don't know their Identity answer this question??

 

Of what kind of player do you think is the majority of the committee(PvP/PvE, old or more newer player... etc)?

 

Who knows. Seriously, without information speculation is pointless.

 

Without Information I can't answer any other these questions about the Committee, or it's Members and goals.

 

Since it is a secret Committee, I don't trust one word from the Staff members of Wurm about this Committee, I actually question whether it exists at all to be honest. I am not calling the Staff members Liars ... but it would be a conflict of interest for a Staff member to be freely Truthful about a "Secret" Committee. Some Players think we are getting more transparency from the Wurm Staff lately... I don't agree. As long as this secret committee exists transparency is diminished.

 

Rolf, on the other hand, Him I know to a certain degree, from his posts, his comments on IRC, his actions, his decisions, etc. I don't know Him much or that well mind you, but just enough to speculate and guess at what he's up to, sometimes what he's up to is clear. Same with some of the Staff members. There are certain Staff I trust, that I have dealings with in the past and I know they care and do the best they can.

 

But this Committee.... a secret .... not a good thing at all in my opinion. My trust in CodeClubAB has DROPPED since they announced this new player organization created supposedly to help us.

Edited by Kyrmius
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its true Rolf owns the company, but the problem is that the "this is Rolf's game" excuse is used as a carte blanche for him to act on his whims.

It's not an excuse that's exactly what he's allowed to do because it's his company. If he wants to run the game into the ground or turn it into a flight sim then that's his call. If he was all about making profit there are all sorts of ways to exploit consumers to maximize profits not necessarily at the consumers benefit but I doubt you'd want that either.

Evidently he does want to know what kinds of ideas are out there as that's the point of the committee. Sift through the forums, weed out the argument, and figure out what types of ideas people have and then give them to the developers to see if they like any and can focus on implementation. It's not a democratic process so there isn't a need for transparency. But in the end it's Rolf's game. He decides if he wants to implement any of the ideas at all regardless of how vocal some people are on the forums about them.

Apparently you don't get consumer goods.

I understand 100%. If you don't like how he's conducting business or the product he's selling then take your money somewhere else. It's not as if he has a monopoly on the genre or the game is essential to your survival. If all you do is whine but continue to pay you're not really making that strong of a point. You're just demonstrating that you still want the product enough to overlook what you consider in your own opinion to be bad decisions. If you feel as the customer that you are always right and that you deserve to have your every whim met then find some company that will cater to your attitude. Good luck with that though :P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add one thing to this. People need to stop this attitude. Because apparently Rolf starts to believe in this.

 

I agree with you, Kane, even though I said what I said. I said what I said because it has been proven time and again that what we think usually does not matter unless a firestorm starts then it is a cleanup happens and ruffled feathers are patted down in damage control. Above that statement, I had also said that suggestions are requested that are not really wanted when the question asking is a statement with a question mark and not a period. They aren't taken into consideration and, many times but not all the time, the lest popular will find a home in the game and not the most popular.

 

To put it bluntly, it's his game. He proves it over and over. We can like it or not like it, complain or praise. It really matters little in the end.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I'm just go ahead and ask:


 


Is the committee even a thing or was it just some kind of damage control for the reinforced tile/enclosure rule drama?


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe that committee of some shady folk will help with anything. Worst case they might even do more damage than good.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't like how he's conducting business or the product he's selling then take your money somewhere else. It's not as if he has a monopoly on the genre or the game is essential to your survival. If all you do is whine but continue to pay you're not really making that strong of a point. You're just demonstrating that you still want the product enough to overlook what you consider in your own opinion to be bad decisions.

 

I've already quit playing and subscribing, and people keep telling me to stop posting on the forum if I'm not going to play or subscribe. So, if we pay/play, we have no right to complain, and if we don't pay/play, we STILL have no right to complain. Rolf's ownership of the company, the committee, and his IRC fanboys aren't going to stop people from leaving the game, and when enough people leave, there will be no more Wurm for Rolf to own. So it is in Rolf's best interest to satisfy his current customers, then try to get more of them. It's also in your best interests if you actually want Wurm to grow and prosper, I'd love to see Rolf become a billionaire over this game myself. 

 

Over the next few years I foresee many of our current <1k players getting married, finding jobs, having kids, moving on to other games and/or hobbies, etc. I've heard several of my friends in this game tell me you basically have to be single and unemployed with no life to play Wurm. Well, that might not be entirely true, but when I'm working I hardly have time for Wurm, it just requires too much time to even sustain what you've got, and I don't work near as many hours as the average person has to. Throw a couple of kids and a wife/girlfriend in the mix, and I don't think many will be able to find time anymore to rake their crops 3 times a day, replant all their grass, repair their fences, feed their dogs, etc. 

 

As for my thoughts on the committee, I think Rolf simply gave titles to all his IRC fanboys, and that nothing will really change. 

Edited by Jeixi
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this