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DefImp

Enclosures Gone...Perimeters Not

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This has to deal with Independence/Freedom Server


 


I just want to draw attention to a small situation. As it stands now, you must have a minimum of five tiles of perimeter land. All land (past the first five) that you have in your perimeter you are paying rent on. Yet you do not get any more legal security on this land than you do outside of it. 


 


So, here is a simple quiz:


 


Do you think Enclosure status should be granted to building/construction on perimeter? Yes or No?

Edited by DefImp
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You have 5 tiles of free perimeter which you do not pay money on. Just to clear that up. 


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Well technically the mandatory 5 are free so only the ones you get over the 5 free are costing you anything and that is just a right to expand you don't actually own anything. That said there were suggestions to make the fence no bash no build by anyone but the deed members but i guess they did not like that idea.


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I think there's more enclosure threads then there are enclosures in game.


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5 tiles free perimeter should be replaced with 2 free deed tiles.


perimeter enclosures wouldn't just work, someone will always build past the perimeter and get unhappy if something happens to it.


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Devils advocate: If I decide to expand my perimeter, lets keep it simple and say I type in "6". Now that I pay for a portion of that "free" perimeter, how much and which tiles of that perimeter are under my ownership? If we still follow "deed it or lose it" philosophy anything I pay for should be mine. So even after the pages upon pages of suggestions on this topic the perimeter still holds no value even if I pay for it?


 


Back on topic, I think "yes" to building on perimeter. Even if I don't own it the perimeter is still an entity that would only exist with the presence of my paid for deed.


Edited by Weatherwax
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Yes... Enclosures made by a village's citizens on the village's perimeter do deserve Legal Enclosures and thus protected status.


 


Why?.... Because Rent (upkeep) is being paid for the deed and includes its' perimeter up to the 5 "free" tiles.


 


Free or not, a perimeter is part of our deed's and as we have paid for the deed and we are paying monthly rent (upkeep), I feel that we do deserve some protection for what we build on what we have rented.


 


On the upside, people who have paid for massive perimeters are yet another source of income for Wurm, income that pays for the servers and the wages of the few paid staff.


 


From a business point of view, I can see why the Dev's and GM team want to put an end to the massive Undeeded land grabs.


 


Massive parts of Wurm are being blocked from generating any income as new players (and old) can not plant a deed in the blocked off areas and make them economically productive.


 


.. so, if someone is willing to make the purchase and pay the monthly rent, they should also get some legal protections that go with renting a property.


 


Food for thought,


 


Cheers! Hughmongus


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You rent nothing, you put a reserve over a number of tiles around your deed tiles so no one can fund a deed, that is what perimeter means, so you don´t deserve the right to have any kind of legal/decay protection on it.


 


If you want to get legal/decay protection make it deed tiles and pay the full price, If you don´t agree with having to pay some money to disallow another people of making deeds close to you then shrink your perimeter to 5 mandatory tiles.


 


In fact you should be grateful, because perimeter allow you to lock land tiles for a reduced price, unlike if someone else deed that same tiles and pay the full price.


 


From the point of view of the king and kingdom funds perimeters are a waste and is always better to have less perimeter tiles and more deed tiles.


Edited by KunAlt

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I have a perimeter on my own RL home, its called an easement. I don't pay for it but it is still considered a part of my property by legal, taxation and liability terms. I can manipulate it, put a fence on it and maintain it but I have the understanding that the village can rip it up in the interest of infrastructure. How is this different then in game metrics?


 


I can build on the perimeter but I have to understand that if anyone messes around with it...that's too bad (for me). I don't think i ever stated I wanted full protection just the option to do "something" even if its lamps, statues, etc instead of being shunned for doing so.


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Hallo KunAlt,


 


As you pointed out, that perimeter is a part of what we have paid for.


 


...and I never said anything about wanting decay protection. If someone wants that then they should have made a bigger deed.


 


The main point, which you missed was...If a customer pays for something, then the customer should be entitled to certain legal protections for what he has purchased.


 


IF they are going to remove this legal protection for Legal Enclosures on perimeter, then prehaps they should start charging for any perimeter.... And give folks with existing perimeters the option to convert their perimeters into deeded land with Zero perimeter before they Legal Enclosure rule goes away.


 


Food for thought,


Cheers! Hughmongus


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Posted (edited) · Hidden by Shrimpiie, April 27, 2014 - Removed - Inappropriate
Hidden by Shrimpiie, April 27, 2014 - Removed - Inappropriate

Yes... Enclosures made by a village's citizens on the village's perimeter do deserve Legal Enclosures and thus protected status.

 

Why?.... Because Rent (upkeep) is being paid for the deed and includes its' perimeter up to the 5 "free" tiles.

 

Free or not, a perimeter is part of our deed's and as we have paid for the deed and we are paying monthly rent (upkeep), I feel that we do deserve some protection for what we build on what we have rented.

 

On the upside, people who have paid for massive perimeters are yet another source of income for Wurm, income that pays for the servers and the wages of the few paid staff.

 

From a business point of view, I can see why the Dev's and GM team want to put an end to the massive Undeeded land grabs.

 

Massive parts of Wurm are being blocked from generating any income as new players (and old) can not plant a deed in the blocked off areas and make them economically productive.

 

.. so, if someone is willing to make the purchase and pay the monthly rent, they should also get some legal protections that go with renting a property.

 

Food for thought,

 

Cheers! Hughmongus

 

Get out of here. You have what ? 15 deeds all around freedom market ? And all with huge-ass perimeters. And you didn't pay sh1t. You recruit newbies from the spawn point and make them work in your deeds as slaves while you make all the money. And lets not forget that day you locked a girl inside an enclosure and made her do chores just because she used some of your cotton to heal her wounds. I'll visit you soon ...

Edited by Issle
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Just to clear a few things up.


 


1.  You pay for extra perimeter, but you do not pay any monthly rent after that for those tiles.


 


2.  When you pay for more perimeter, you are paying for the right to expand on that land, and no one else can expand over it, build a building, or deed it.  That is all you are paying for.


 


3.  At least 1 tile of perimeter will have to remain in place, as you cannot have 2 deeds share a border.  This is because of issues when you put up a fence around your deed, who owns the shared wall?


 


4.  No one has brought this up yet, but paying for extra perimeter does not give you a reduced price for those tiles when you later expand your deed, you will pay the full price for those tiles.  So buying extra perimeter is more costly than just buying all the land at once.


Edited by Vroomfondel

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Hallo KunAlt,

 

As you pointed out, that perimeter is a part of what we have paid for.

 

...and I never said anything about wanting decay protection. If someone wants that then they should have made a bigger deed.

 

The main point, which you missed was...If a customer pays for something, then the customer should be entitled to certain legal protections for what he has purchased.

 

IF they are going to remove this legal protection for Legal Enclosures on perimeter, then prehaps they should start charging for any perimeter.... And give folks with existing perimeters the option to convert their perimeters into deeded land with Zero perimeter before they Legal Enclosure rule goes away.

 

Food for thought,

Cheers! Hughmongus

 

You payed for the right to lock down a portion of tiles so no one can fund a deed, there is a hard coded mechanic disallowing the funding of deed in perimeter tiles.

 

As I see you got what you payed for.

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Moved to Town Square.


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Posted (edited) · Hidden by Shrimpiie, April 27, 2014 - Removed - Response to now hidden post
Hidden by Shrimpiie, April 27, 2014 - Removed - Response to now hidden post

Issle:


 


Hugh owns one or two deeds in the immediate area around FM. Sure he owns more outside of that, but without deed owners, there would be no game.


 


Liberty/Allies never enslaved anyone. Liberty had tenant farm agreements, but no one was required to live there. IF someone wanted to leave, they left. Hugh has only one venture I can see where he is making money. If anyone had a plantation without paying their labor it was you. That is why Quick was so eager to sell the deed.


 


You aren't some righteous freedom fighter, you are just a troll, who obviously has nothing better to do with his time than to grief peaceful players. Nothing better to do with his time than destroy highways, attack tower guards, lie to GMs to get them to move other players boats, and generally re-neg on every agreement you have ever made. 


 


You were forced out of Exodus, then you were forced out of Indy. Chaos is a great fit, because you can use your talents on other players in a legitimate context. I mean that honestly. But hey, if you want to come back to Indy and clean up people's perimeters...well...I'm sure Hugh and half of Indy could use a dedicated janitor like yourself.


 


TLDR; You are a troll. Your searching for reasons to be a troll. 


Edited by DefImp

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Now lets turn this back to the topic at hand. 


 


Yes or No. I'm just curious.


 


I think the minimum perim should be done away with. It sorta guaruntees that there will be five tiles of space after every deed where there wont be any real construction. I guess.


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Posted · Hidden by Shrimpiie, April 27, 2014 - Removed - Response to now hidden post
Hidden by Shrimpiie, April 27, 2014 - Removed - Response to now hidden post

 If anyone had a plantation without paying their labor it was you. That is why Quick was so eager to sell the deed.

 

 

I rest my case ... 

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no.


 


 


Perimeter is merely there for future expansion and to prevent deeds being linked together. It does exactly what it is intended to do; it prevents other deeds and perimeters overlapping it, aswell as prevents foreigners constructing indestructible structures on your future land. It is in no way meant to protect your whatevers on it, just to reserve land for future expansion. Hence it's cheaper, too.


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Likely impossible anyway as deeds would be able to share tile borders without perimeter, which would cause issues.


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I have a hard time believing that anyone who buys perimeter tiles can seriously manage to convince themselves that they are real deed tiles seeing as they are both cheaper, lack upkeep cost and do not protect structures from decay. Yet we see all these threads sprawling up where people talk about not being able to use perimeters as deed anymore, but let's face it: You were never able to.

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Now lets turn this back to the topic at hand. 

 

Yes or No. I'm just curious.

 

I think the minimum perim should be done away with. It sorta guaruntees that there will be five tiles of space after every deed where there wont be any real construction. I guess.

 

Excellent point DefImp.

 

Prehaps Weatherwax's idea of an Easement, namely a 1 tile perimeter would be valid suggestion as ppl could then make a deed right up to but not over a highway.

 

This way people could have deeds on both sides of the highway with their 1 tile perimeters meeting in the middle of the road.

 

Food for thought,

Cheers! Hughmongus

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Just fence the damn thing and plant potatoes. I mean, if somebody takes the time to put down a low stone wall just to steal some potatoes, hes got to be needing those potatoes way more than you do


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Likely impossible anyway as deeds would be able to share tile borders without perimeter, which would cause issues.

 

Gud afternoon Dipse,

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond sir.  A suggestion then if I may, please consider reducing the minimum perimeter to 1 tiles with the option to purchase more.  I have several neighbours I would love to have a close common border with along a highway.

 

A one tile perimeter would also free up a lot of land for more deeds, hence more income for the company and would encourage more new ppl to plant deeds as there would be more land available where ppl elect to only have a 1 tile perimeter.

 

Prehaps allowing ppl the option of a 1 tile perimeter would be worthy of consideration.

 

Thank you for your time and trouble.  I am sure the majority of us do appreciate the hard work you and your fellow Dev's are putting into keep Wurm the best PvE sandbox in the world.

 

Kindest regards! Hughmongus

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