Freedom Code Of Conduct (Removal)

[Busted 289]

Well, I don't know how Epic differs from Wild but I assume it's the same deal.

 

What I'd have on Freedom is silver cost to declare war on a village (think Eve) limited ability to raid a deed (timed windows of opportunity) and limited loot drops so pvp could still be meaningful without overwhelmingly unfair to the "victim." This way you couldn't realistically level a deed but you can do enough damage to be a problem that needs to be resolved either through diplomacy or force of will. Either way, an associated cost in silver or vulnerability would limit casual griefing for the sake of it.

 

That all said, it'd be something which would probably only be suitable for Xanadu so it isn't forced on established players but either way it'd be a step in the right direction if not totally what Rolf wanted it to be.

[scottfree 32]

good luck playing on yre empty server after all the people who despise conflict have left

[Mhyth 14]

Seems like some convoluted plan to get a tax break by incurring a massive self-inflicted business loss.  

[Kegan 3,926]

Don't worry they are not turning it into a pvp environment or yes a lot of players would just quit.  They are doing the removal of the FCC to make less work on the staff for the hordes of new of players they are expecting i guess.  You will still have all the protection of your deed and there will still be no lockpicking but if a player comes in and cuts every tree there is on your perimeter and packs all the tiles there is nothing you can do about it but replant later. 

 

I have even seen players take over mines by mining in and collapsing the tile to your entrance and supporting the tile so you can not get back in your own off deed mine. Now granted most of the time this will not happen but if someone is mad at you or if you drop your guard then you can become a victim. 

 

They might put in a new griefing rule but then it is up to the staff again and that is what they are wanting to do away with it seems like so i think we will have to just live with it. 

Edited April 25, 2014 by Kegan

[Aaron_IRL 256]

So, we find out yesterday that we are not going to be forced to Xanadu.    

 

Today's news... but we're going to see if we can torpedo the server you're on now. 

[Kediec 280]

Speaking as a player here :-

 

I am just gonna point out that the FCC was never a hard set of rules and just a guideline (or moral compass) of how to play "nicely".

If someone was insistent upon doing damage to someone elses off deed mine or tree area, they could already do that anyway.

The removal of the FCC doesn't make any difference really, because it never actually stopped any untoward actions being done in the first place.

[Pingpong 1,070]

So just remove all rules on freedom? I agree it was oddly named because it carried no weight. It was however one of the things that did set "Freedom" aside from chaos/epic. I'm curious to see what other things we've long regarded as pillars of how wurm works are being tossed out because A GM's are over worked and can't handle the load, or B Rolf is tired of toying with PVE.

[NeeNee 855]

So those signs on destroyed highways asking the offender to contact a GM immediately were just for funsies? People who go dinged for bashing or otherwise griefing, that was not actually real? This makes no sense and smacks of rewriting history to make bad decisions look reasonable.

Speaking as a player here :-

 

I am just gonna point out that the FCC was never a hard set of rules and just a guideline (or moral compass) of how to play "nicely".

If someone was insistent upon doing damage to someone elses off deed mine or tree area, they could already do that anyway.

The removal of the FCC doesn't make any difference really, because it never actually stopped any untoward actions being done in the first place.

[Kyrmius 193]

Just wanted to make sure everyone seen Enki's post about the FCC is being removed altogether..

 

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/30044-freedom-code-of-conduct/#entry1017856

 Thanks Kegan for head's up.

[khatanka 317]

Ok, no rules more.

 

You can destroy all off-deed, change wood to sand, destroy roads, mine doors and other, walled in deeds, houses, carts, boats

 

Thats best, we move all to chaos, then there you can kill the griefers ... (or die^^)

 

Wurm 3.0?

[MaurizioAM 919]

Im a pvper at heart but i can even see that without the FCC on freedom isles you might as well just turn on PVP.... Do you know how much griefing will go on? And there is nothing at all you can do about it, pretty dumb if you ask me.

[Mhyth 14]

That's absurd.  You're trying to rationalize this so hard in your head you're reaching beyond all reasonable credibility.

 

Rules are meaningless without consequences - it's exactly because there are potential or real consequences that players stop negative behavior.  They either don't do it in the first place because they want to avoid the consequences, stop doing whatever it was when confronted by an authority capable of inflicting the consequences(whether any consequence actually happens or not) or are stopped by the consequences themselves removing the ability of the player to continue the negative behavior.

 

The only thing that preemptively makes untoward actions not possible are game mechanics.  Where there are game mechanics in place to prevent such things there no need for rules.  Game mechanics and rules are not interchangeable concepts - you don't have a valid point to point out.

 

Speaking as a player here :-

 

I am just gonna point out that the FCC was never a hard set of rules and just a guideline (or moral compass) of how to play "nicely".

If someone was insistent upon doing damage to someone elses off deed mine or tree area, they could already do that anyway.

The removal of the FCC doesn't make any difference really, because it never actually stopped any untoward actions being done in the first place.

[GorgonKain 355]

A player's conduct should not be modified by some system of invented rules, overseen by big brother. If a person is a griefer, let them enjoy the real and natural consequences. You can KOS who you like, don't trade with them, tell your friends what they did. Eventually the reputation for naughtiness will spread, and less people will want to do with them.

Of course there are always instances of people who simply do not care who they sell or buy from. However, banning someone for not "behaving correctly" in a sandbox game has always been my biggest Wurm beef.  

 

TL;DR to all the changes of late to FCC and Encloser Rules:

Glad I started when I did. 

[NeeNee 855]

A player's conduct should not be modified by some system of invented rules, overseen by big brother. If a person is a griefer, let them enjoy the real and natural consequences. You can KOS who you like, don't trade with them, tell your friends what they did. Eventually the reputation for naughtiness will spread, and less people will want to do with them.

Of course there are always instances of people who simply do not care who they sell or buy from. However, banning someone for not "behaving correctly" in a sandbox game has always been my biggest Wurm beef.  

 

TL;DR to all the changes of late to FCC and Encloser Rules:

Glad I started when I did. 

You must be very young or naive to not understand that many people do actually need rules to behave. I do believe the vast majority of people are good (if selfish) and can be held to the social contract of their town/country/game/planet by fear of reprisal or ostracizing. However, enough people are messed up in the head, childish, angry and lacking in any proper outlet for their feelings. Those are the people who need the rules enforced. Sandbox /= wild free for all.

[dipse 231]

As far as I know the existing rules remain, just the FCC is being removed which was never a set of rules to enforce anyway.

[Lithien 268]

Speaking as a player here :-

 

I am just gonna point out that the FCC was never a hard set of rules and just a guideline (or moral compass) of how to play "nicely".

If someone was insistent upon doing damage to someone elses off deed mine or tree area, they could already do that anyway.

The removal of the FCC doesn't make any difference really, because it never actually stopped any untoward actions being done in the first place.

 

But the amount of griefing that can and will be done now without even the developers being able to do anything about it, since the griefers will be playing within the non-existing rules is way worse than you can imagine.

 

Imagine all the ways someone could grief players and the game in general, when there will be no consequences from the staff, and with no reputation to worry about either if about to quit anyway. And the options for those who don't intend to make any RL money off the game, and just have silver/golds to throw away too before they quit, there are even more options.

 

Oh and it wouldn't even be just the players that are disliked that should worry - no, no - for the biggest impact, just do it to the most loved, admired, rescpected etc players - like the volunteer staff. If it is Rolf and the devs that are the "disliked" ones, then the volunteer staff are sitting ducks.

 

With no FCC, and no PvP, the PvE players can all be griefed to the point that they have to stay on deed. All deeds can be made inaccessible. And forget those nice coastal front deeds that are so popular - Dirt can be dropped faster than you can dredge it back out. And with a Fo priest and an altar nearby and an insane amount of HQ cloth to sac(yes, I did bug the ability to get max ql threads and square pieces ages ago, but that isn't important enough to fix), they don't even need to spend the time to dig up more dirt...

 

I am actually tired of playing Damagecontrol Online, and sadly enough both Griefing Online and Deedplanner Offline are sounding way more fun right now.

[Object 281]

I don't know what people are ranting and raving in this thread, I had a boat stolen once, the FCC basically said don't steal boats so I did a support ticket, the GM told me that (in a very polite way) I should stop being an idiot and lock my boat then but an anchor on it.

 

I also had my off deed mine broken into but by this time I realized I should have just stopped being a lazy ___ and reinforce my off deed mines.  I made a highway once and it was mostly removed, I did a support ticket and even though there was highway rules in place in the FCC the GM couldn't do anything about it without proof that it was a highway.

 

Seriously people the FCC means nothing, it's a complete joke (or was) and the removal of it means just as much as most of my posts in wood scraps.  Stop making a big deal about something that means nothing, the actual rules are still in place.  Understand there is a difference between the rules and the FCC.  I bet most of you never even read it you're just so worked up on the freedom is now gonna be pvp train that you have to come here and doom and gloom with the rest of these people.

[Depends 220]

Speaking as a player here :-

 

I am just gonna point out that the FCC was never a hard set of rules and just a guideline (or moral compass) of how to play "nicely".

If someone was insistent upon doing damage to someone elses off deed mine or tree area, they could already do that anyway.

The removal of the FCC doesn't make any difference really, because it never actually stopped any untoward actions being done in the first place.

Rule or guideline, FCC was enforced many times by different GMs. Just seemed to depend on the mood of the day.

So I guess it's good that it's going away just for the fact that it was never enforced consistently. Not that it was ever intended to be in the first place.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Depends

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Sort-of OK with this. The FCC was an ineffectual non-rule set that didn't really do anything except tricking players into thinking they had some sort of protection in my experience.

What bothers me however is the prospect that problems caused by game features not working as intended, or changed without notice, will be considered fair game.

Edited April 25, 2014 by EliasTheCrimson

[Yaga 2,892]

I don't understand this move at all. Instead of finally enforcing the FCC the officials decided to remove the Code of Conduct in toto. So Wurm is now open to griefers and no GM assistance can be expected - maybe it's time for me to move on...

 

[Chiqa 742]

If we all use our deed settings to the best of our ability, lock our boats and lock our carts then  nothing is going to be greifed or stolen.  I know  that if i leave my cart unlocked off deed it may well dis pear along with the contents.  I cannot hold anyone else responsible for my inattention to detail.   Hmm maybe I will just blame Gumbo, it has to be his fault when I am a bonehead

[Bullbrand 63]

There is a vast difference between a rule and a guideline --

1) Rules are made to be followed and obeyed - not doing so will have reprisals
eg  30 mph speed zone -- travel 30 mph or under .. this is a rule. Travelling faster will get you in trouble with the local police/law/sheriff etc if/when you are caught.

2) Guidelines are just simple suggestions to make life easier, or helpful ideas that someone has thought fit to write down for someone else.
eg When painting your house, it's a good idea to wear safety goggles to avoid getting paint splashed in the eyes. This is a guideline .. you don't have to stick to it, but it may be in your interest to do it.

The FCC were a collection of guildelines to make life on a Freedom server easier for you and everyone else.

...just my 2p worth

[Radni 1,089]

Well, I don't know how Epic differs from Wild but I assume it's the same deal.

What I'd have on Freedom is silver cost to declare war on a village (think Eve) limited ability to raid a deed (timed windows of opportunity) and limited loot drops so pvp could still be meaningful without overwhelmingly unfair to the "victim." This way you couldn't realistically level a deed but you can do enough damage to be a problem that needs to be resolved either through diplomacy or force of will. Either way, an associated cost in silver or vulnerability would limit casual griefing for the sake of it.

That all said, it'd be something which would probably only be suitable for Xanadu so it isn't forced on established players but either way it'd be a step in the right direction if not totally what Rolf wanted it to be.

You're in essence describing MRH and JKH. There's alliances there, with many deeds in them. They don't support griefing pvp and take out any individuals who try and do so. They attack deeds that unprovokedly attack other alliance deeds unless you have a "conflict" wherein the two deeds duke it out while the alliance doesn't care. They don't approve of attacking any deed unless it's a confirmed enemy deed.. Edited April 26, 2014 by Radni

[Hussars 511]

So looking at what is actually said about the enclosure rule:

 

• If a house or wall is not built on a deeded tile, it is allowed to be bashed.
  • Since houses are immune to aggresive action on Freedom isles, this leaves only fences.
• If there are items in an off-deed fenced in pen, those items have no "legal" protection from theft
  • Lock all off-deed storage
  • Move animals/farms to on-deed tiles

Not seeing anything about revoking the actual griefing complaints/protection (dropping a couple 10's, 100's to 1000's of dirt, lock picking a lock you don't own, etc...)

 

So I'm expecting the new Freedom Rules will look something like this:

 

 

 

Freedom Isles ( Excluding Chaos ) & Golden Valley Server Specific Rules 
Griefing

Harassment
Any harassment such as, defamation of character (insulting their race, gender, creed, nationality or sexuality), continuous use of unfavorable emotes, or failure to abide to a Game Master instruction is disallowed.

Lockpicking
It is illegal to lockpick anything that does not belong to you.

 

(Potential section for Highway rules if they are not removed - Decision is still pending)

 

Heritage Items.
Such items as major tunnels, items or sites that are deemed important by the Game Masters to enhancing the playability for players will be named "Heritage" sites. Heritage items will be adequately sign posted so there isn't any confusion.
All such Heritage sites are under Game Master protection and any destruction, alteration or other action that results in restricting the use or access of such items will be governed under the game rules for griefing.

KoS
It's the right of any mayor to KoS anyone as they see fit, except for any deed covering a highway. In such cases the village waives any right to KoS anyone.

In order to set KoS on anyone the village must have a one tile allowance between the deed edge and any gate that will lock upon the village alarms being sounded. Anyone set on KoS must be allowed a clear avenue to remove themselves from that deed. Not allowing this will be considered as griefing and is illegal.

Game Masters may issue an instruction and possibly a warning to the player or players in any case referred to as griefing. Failure to abide by this instruction or warning could result in the player or players involved being banned. If you have a problem with the instruction, you should do as you are advised and then post any complaint to the Head Game Master.

 

Merchants :
If a merchant becomes blocked, the merchant owner must be given proper access for the removal of the merchant and it's stock.

Punishment for griefing:
Penalties could be a warning, or a 3-7 day ban, or could result in the player account put before the Game Masters for possible permanent account ban. This can alter depending on the severity of the case

 

 

As for "frontier justice", yeah.. wrong server.

 

Honestly, I'd say just remove the ability to bash anything on off-deed tiles.  Fences do not block deeding/expanding deeds, and since you can't bash house walls on Freedom, there is no need for it with no enclosure protection.  As pointed out by others, you can have someone come plan a "doughnut" house for you no matter what your skill level or premium status is, so coupled with potentially removing the highway protections, there will not be a use for off deed fences anyway unless you want to potentially waste time/energy/materials on maintaining something that can be bashed for no reason.

 

I know I'm not going to continue to maintain off deed fences on roadsides/cliff edges, just not worth it to me to be nice to those who don't know the area.  As a side note, given the number of corpse piles I've collected before building those fences (and even since from those trying to climb around the fences), I may soon have a large number of backpacks for sale.  I'll let you know.

 

Anything else you need to bash is likely placed by someone messing with you, and may be covered by the "anti-griefing" rules.  So get rid of off-deed bashing for non-staff characters on Freedom (staff can use whatever powers they have to remove it).

Edited April 26, 2014 by Hussars

[LorraineJ 1,099]

Just wanted to make sure everyone seen Enki's post about the FCC is being removed altogether..

 

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/30044-freedom-code-of-conduct/#entry1017856

 

In approximately two weeks time in conjunction with the removal of the Enclosure Rules we will be shutting down the Freedom Code of Conduct system as it interferes with the intended sandbox aspect of activities in Wurm Online.

 

Along with this change then, I want the time for being able to track tile traffic to be extended to a week. Three hours DOES NOT cut it. I want to know who broke down my walls, instead of feeling untrusting of everyone around me. Let me know who did it so I don't buy things from them anymore or transact with them.