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Kegan

Freedom Code Of Conduct (Removal)

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you can't turn of offdeed bashing otherwise every idiot would come over and wall off across any roads.


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I realize the reasoning for such, but I worry about the potential for passive aggressive pvp.


 


Anyone with a high level of digging can do a massive amount of damage to an area, enough so that low level digging players can be griefed right out of an area and essentially unable to fix it.


 


Put high quality fence, dig or create 200+ slope to stop bashing of it. Poof. Helpless player.


Edited by Sevenless
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Didn't the FCC not do anything anyway?

 

Legal enclosures were always a myth. You never could and never will be able to prove the the level of decay on a fence that no longer exists. Unless you branded an animal, which requires it on a deed, you never could and never will prove it was yours or that it ever existed it killed, butchered, then buried. The FCC was a deterrent. People read it and saw they could be punished. Now there is no deterrent. How do you enforce anti-griefing when the code that defined griefing is gone? You don't. If it happens off a deed, it is not griefing. Simple enough. It follows this argument... if we legalize drugs, drug trafficking is no longer a crime and crime rates will drop. To legalize a thing, you do not need a law or rule saying you can do it. You need only to remove a law or rule saying you cannot. It was nearly impossible to stick a griefer with the FCC in place. Now? Not a chance. 

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you can't turn of offdeed bashing otherwise every idiot would come over and wall off across any roads.

 

Why wall them off when you can just dig them up? You can't put a wall across and off-deed road. You have to dig it up to put in a wall. Freedom is now PvP without killing players. They can do about anything they want off-deed which includes around your deed. Just flip the switch and get it over with. It's been the trend for the past 6 months. This just caps it. The only thing left is killing each other.

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as far as i can tell, griefing rules still apply, so if someone does block you off by digging and placing a fence, call a gm.

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People seem to be confused about what griefing is. Using public land is not griefing. Taking things from public land is not griefing. If you leave things on public land, expect it to be taken by someone else. If you put horses on public land, they aren't your horses, they belong to whoever controls them. This is not a single player game, the world belongs to everyone unless you buy the land.


Edited by Judicator
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People seem to be confused about what griefing is. Using public land is not griefing. Taking things from public land is not griefing. If you leave things on public land, expect it to be taken by someone else. If you put horses on public land, they aren't your horses, they belong to whoever controls them. This is not a single player game, the world belongs to everyone unless you buy the land.

Understood. No misunderstanding from me at all on this....  but there are MANY ways to grief that are NOT forbidden by the rules and are not thought of much. We shall more of this now. The FCC provided some guideline to behavior, some deterrent.

 

The FCC is/was a great guideline but was never enforced. Frankly I am surprised Rolf allowed it to exist this long, especially since... nevermind. No need to shoot myself in the foot on this.

Edited by Kyrmius

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Understood. No misunderstanding from me at all on this....  but there are MANY ways to grief that are NOT forbidden by the rules and are not thought of much. We shall more of this now. The FCC provided some guideline to behavior, some deterrent.

 

The FCC is/was a great guideline but was never enforced. Frankly I am surprised Rolf allowed it to exist this long, especially since... nevermind. No need to shoot myself in the foot on this.

FCC was regularly enforced.

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All we need now is some frontier justice and we got us a proper sandbox to play in.

 

Usually, I disagree with you, Busted...

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  • If there are items in an off-deed fenced in pen, those items have no "legal" protection from theft

    • Lock all off-deed storage

  • Move animals/farms to on-deed tiles

 

You had better lock all on-deed storage too. They can come onto your deed and lock it just the same as they can off your deed. They can come onto your deed and into your writ and lock it. Don't believe me? Have a friend who is not an ally come and test the water. 

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Yes, but they cannot take anything from on-deed/in houses storage unless you allow them to.  If someone locks your on-deed storage, /support it or move them into houses before someone else locks it, bashing of enclosures does not equate to indefensible griefing.


 


Problem is, that off-deed players now will have no recourse if it happens to them, hence my previous list.


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Did people get banns for locking stuff on deeds not being ally/citizen/mayor?


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No clue, when/if it happens, we only find out when someone complains on the forum.


 


Last word from the GM team in the previous thread about it was that it is considered griefing on the Freedom PVE isles, and they would deal with it (likely just remove the locks though).


 


But I'm not part of the team, so cannot speak for them as to the current status/classification on it.  Just that players were asked to report it when it happens.


Edited by Hussars

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I think you are absolutley correct Alec, it does seem that way. Most of the updates this year had a hidden agenda, to move PvE closer to PvP.

 

Actually its worse than PvP because on PvE you can almost do the same things as on PvP but there is no way to retaliate unless you grief back as well.

 

I got a question to you PvE guys, just what do you find so debilitating about universal PvP?   I don't think its fair to enforce in the current environment, since I highly doubt that there are many deeds anywhere in the freedom cluster that would be prepared for it, nor are the players prepared themselves for it.   

 

What I'm asking here ties directly with the game as a sandbox, and as a whole.   I've basically lived and worked for years on Chaos, I've not had any problems with my neighbors, and the instances of actual dispute rare, if ever ends up carrying over to action in game, except in instances of stealing.     This is a product of how my kingdom self-regulates because of the ability to take direct action against provocation.    

 

We don't have big sky-daddy GMs that ever told us what we couldn't do to our neighbors, we interact politely and with respect because we can kill each other, and no one wants to start that kind of silliness.  

 

This isn't a question if you like the current pvp system or not, or anything.  I'm just wondering if you actually can self-regulate in any meaningful way.   I don't know enough about the situation on freedom to make an informed guess.   What do ya'll think?   

 

Don't get me wrong I don't think that we are any better because we have less issues with each other, that situation is a direct result of our environment and may be unique to MR, and as I said Freedom is completely different.   I'm just curious about how ppl feel.    

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What I'm asking here ties directly with the game as a sandbox, and as a whole.   I've basically lived and worked for years on Chaos, I've not had any problems with my neighbors, and the instances of actual dispute rare, if ever ends up carrying over to action in game, except in instances of stealing.     This is a product of how my kingdom self-regulates because of the ability to take direct action against provocation.    

 

This self regulation is possible because in pvp your kingdommates is not just other-players but comrades and you can vent your aggression and mischief to enemy kingdoms. Although, you kind of candy coat it... arguments happen a lot in chaos and when these grow to rare intra-kingdom dispute, it explode bigger than any pve dispute. In freedom, most you lost is ability to expand land, getting KoS everywhere, or lost things that is not on deed.

 

On chaos.. (not going to make any example here since it just going to trigger debate) I have heard, see, experience things like losing all friends on that kingdom, losing RL friends, marked as untrusty spy the whole wurm lifetime, losing your own village, losing every single items that is not in bank, account hijack, to driven off server with 'if you come back we will hunt you down'. Argumentatively... the huge punishment for being a threat to your own kingdom might be one reason of why intra-kingdom disputes are rare.

Edited by rosedragon

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Personally I'd be pretty well-off if Freedom got some sort of actual PvP - Big alliance with lots of veterans, most of which has medium to high fight skills and personally have a set of drake and good weaponry. But I'm also pretty damn sure that I'm the exception and if PvP was turned on in any sense Freedom would explode into chaos (hah) and people would quit in droves no matter the circumstances.


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The big problem with this is it was the limited tool that kept off deed griefing in check.


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Not only new players. There's players that can't make the silver for a deed, don't want to live under the thumb of a mayor or have other reasons to stay off a deed.

I have mine, and living in an enclosure which I've built up nicely, this update might be a death sentence to me.

 

Maybe Rolf should drop the 20 skill cap for non premiums too just in case someone can't afford premium.

 

I think you are absolutley correct Alec, it does seem that way. Most of the updates this year had a hidden agenda, to move PvE closer to PvP.

 

Actually its worse than PvP because on PvE you can almost do the same things as on PvP but there is no way to retaliate unless you grief back as well.

 

Yup, it's all the work of the PvP illuminati.

 

 

So far I see nothing gamebreaking in what's coming, you can all keep your little fenced areas but they will require more work to be kept intact, deal with it.

One thing has stayed true for me in this game: Deed it or lose it. 

 

land you have not paid for does not belong to you in any way whatsoever and just having some fences there does not give you any more right over that land than any other player that wants that land.

 

 

People that play this game for extended periods of time and then whine about content without investing in premium, or complain about "their" land despite not deeding it make me sick. The sense of entitlement kicks up a stench worse than a cesspit. Maybe it's rose-coloured glasses but I remember a lot less whinging when non-paying characters were imprisoned on Golden Valley while the real servers were left for paying customers.

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Good change in my honest opinion, unless I'm missing something?

If we lock are things, chest, bsbs, fsbs, carts, wagons, doors ect they can't get into them.

And the higher ql walls, nobody is going to bash to farm your 40 farm tiles...

The bad: people can steal your animals, unless hitched to a locked cart/wagon. And they can also kill them(?)

New players will have a overall harder time.

The good: nobody can abuse these...."guidelines/rules" I've seen it done so many times. Mostly with the screwed up highway. IE: build a highway to someone that doesn't want it, and they have no ability to remove it without breaking a BS rule.

If you've got trouble with another player, you have multiple ways to solve it now. The usual "let everyone know" and ban him from trade, or get your friends together and uproot them and force them to move on.

It can lean either way, and definitely can and will be abused. But at least now players can actually fight griefers, instead of being griefed by the actual rules made to prevent griefing.

I foresee many 80-90 stone walls on the way.

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I got a question to you PvE guys, just what do you find so debilitating about universal PvP?

 

This isn't like an FPS where even as a noob I can grab a gun and have confidence that I can kill you by playing smart and using my own skills.

 

In Wurm if someone has better gear and higher character skills...well good luck.

 

Wurm PVP doesn't appeal to me, so I don't want to do it.  And I don't think it makes ANY sense that PVE players are being forced to suffer catapults being used against them, and rule changes that encourage griefing.  It's not like we can fight back even if we wanted to.

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I got a question to you PvE guys, just what do you find so debilitating about universal PvP?

...

 

I don´t like Wurm PvP, otherwise I should be in a PvP server instead of Celebration.

 

How did PvP guys will feel about if tomorrow devs declare PvP banned and turn all servers into PvE servers?

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How did PvP guys will feel about if tomorrow devs declare PvP banned and turn all servers into PvE servers?

 

 

I would feel like re-activating my toon on Eve Online.

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Posted · Hidden by Shrimpiie, May 4, 2014 - Removed - Trolling
Hidden by Shrimpiie, May 4, 2014 - Removed - Trolling

I don´t like Wurm PvP, otherwise I should be in a PvP server instead of Celebration.

 

How did PvP guys will feel about if tomorrow devs declare PvP banned and turn all servers into PvE servers?

 

I guess they'd quit the game after crying about it like little girls on the forums. Just like what you are doing now.

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Posted · Hidden by Shrimpiie, May 4, 2014 - Removed - Response to now hidden post
Hidden by Shrimpiie, May 4, 2014 - Removed - Response to now hidden post

I guess they'd quit the game after crying about it like little girls on the forums. Just like what you are doing now.

 

I´m not quiting, I´m not crying and I´m not a little girl so is don´t know what are you talking about.

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