Official response from wurm team requested

[Thorakkanath 444]

Hello,

 

in the light of the changes that will happen in 2 weeks, I seek an official resolve to the following problem:

 

I own 2 deeds that are divided by the minimum distance of 10 tiles (5 'free' perimeter tiles on both) that cannot be joined to 1 because wurm does not allow asymettric deeds N-S and E-W.I have built tall stone walls between them where I have my farm as well as some other things. Until now the space was a legal enclosure.

 

With the removal of the rule anyone can bash into this 10 tile space, destroy/farm all my farm tiles, dig down, cut my trees, make a tunnel entrance, enter my mines (between my own deeds), lock BSBs (even on deeds) and destroy the mines in all ways they want,

 

I am on PvE. Please give me a reasonable* defense for this situation?

 

Thank you,

Thor

 

 

 

 

*Asking me to destroy my walls, rethink my farm, hire mag to collapse and reinforce my mines is unacceptable, I did not do anything wrong, i worked with that game mechanics offered (and still offer as nothing changed).

Edited April 25, 2014 by Thorakkanath

[Snoo 280]

Deed it or lose it

[Cookiestomper 20]

Wouldn't that count as griefing?

[Serpentarius 186]

I have built tall stone walls between them where I have my farm as well as some other things. Until now the space was a legal enclosure.

Build a longhouse going from the deed border of one deed to the perimeter border of the other deed on each side of the common perimeters. Should make the area hard to reach.

 

Edit: also your mine system is relatively well reinforced, you shoud just collapse some of the less useful offdeed entrances and reinforce them.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Serpentarius

[ScarfaceRo 79]

Build 10x1 long houses instead of tall walls; they are unbreakable and look is quite similar.

 

You should only reinforce same 10 + 10 tiles if you are afraid of intruders from the outside; since you will have longhouses for perimeter and simple walls for deed, you don't have to worry someone being able to enter so no need to reinforce the inside.

 

Or... just stop worrying so much and just have fun... in the end is just about pixels in a game ffs... you're not keeping your family heirlooms in there.

Edited April 25, 2014 by ScarfaceRo

[Alec 728]

Build a longhouse going from the deed border of one deed to the perimeter border of the other deed on each side of the common perimeters. Should make the area hard to reach.

 

Edit: also your mine system is relatively well reinforced, you shoud just collapse some of the less useful offdeed entrances and reinforce them.

 

Build 10x1 long houses instead of tall walls; they are unbreakable and look is quite similar.

 

You should only reinforce same 10 + 10 tiles if you are afraid of intruders from the outside; since you will have longhouses for perimeter and simple walls for deed, you don't have to worry someone being able to enter so no need to reinforce the inside.

 

 

For that he could probably move to a home server and have more fun there.

[Lithien 268]

Build 10x1 long houses instead of tall walls; they are unbreakable and look is quite similar.

 

You should only reinforce same 10 + 10 tiles if you are afraid of intruders from the outside; since you will have longhouses for perimeter and simple walls for deed, you don't have to worry someone being able to enter so no need to reinforce the inside.

 

Or... just stop worrying so much and just have fun... in the end is just about pixels in a game ffs... you're not keeping your family heirlooms in there.

 

In theory, your solution is simple. However it requires first of all that the 2 10x1 areas are flat, that there is no existing building on the corner deed tiles, and both longhouses will have extremely fast decay on half of the houses - the half that is in the perimeter of a deed that the writholder does not belong to.

 

Your solution (if the other criteria are met) is simple to build and hell to maintain.

 

It would require more materials, be uglier and you would lose more perimeter tiles if you made U shaped houses instead, but it would be easier to maintain as long as the writs are held by members of the correct deed. And as long as you only leave 1 tile between the buildings, your mines are safe, as no one can terraform or tunnel between the buildings.

[Archaegeo 136]

Collapse part of the two current deeds enough to allow for a 3rd deed between them is another option, though I am sure you will say that will not work for you

[ScarfaceRo 79]

Also disbanding both deeds and just reform in a unified deed may be a solution.

[Becket 843]

just wall your perim..not many players are going to waste their time to bash 70+ql stone walls to just grief.

[Zakerak 442]

Thinking about it more, what is that max. ratio between North-South and East-West sides of deed? 1:4 or 1:5?

4 well placed longDeeds and 4 longHouses between them can render quite huge hoarded area in cost of 4 silvers per month only. That area can be even expanded around that longDeeds by use of U-shape longHouses.

That all with completelly legal techniques of Wurm, isn't it great?

 

 

this is just part of possible pattern, use your own imagination for more ...

(sand represent 41x11 long deeds, in bottom part sample of u-shape longhouses with fields inside)

this sample counts with 98 carp, but can be scaled down easily, of course

Edited April 25, 2014 by Zakerak

[Kammerz 69]

Also disbanding both deeds and just reform in a unified deed may be a solution.

And be cheaper to do than it would have been before... 

[Zakerak 442]

just wall your perim..not many players are going to waste their time to bash 70+ql stone walls to just grief.

Catapult is easy and fast solution. Hidden in wagon, 5 - 10 minutes to shot down any ql wall/fence for skilled operator. Of couse only, if there are at last 9-10 tiles without barriers, otherwise it can be problem.

[FreeTineen 430]

just wall your perim..not many players are going to waste their time to bash 70+ql stone walls to just grief.

 

Exactly, you know how long it takes to bash something that ql off deed, even a pault would be some serious investment. 

[Thorakkanath 444]

Thank you all for your replies so far.

 

The deeds are not on the same level. Also they cannot be joined like I said in OP already.

 

Also in the OP and title I asked for a public solution given by the wurm team (not that I mind players like myself helping out with ideas) why? because there seems to be no solution given to a problem that the updated rules created.

 

It seems that every rule change implies more and more work on the player side: re-securing mines, re-securing enclosures, highways? All solutions discussed here so far mean a lot of work and/or silvers. Will wurm sponsor the silvers necessary for the modifications? I would bet no... That is why I underlined the word reasonable.

 

It is outrageous that on PvE you get to the point where you cannot secure your own area due to game mechanics or face A LOT of work/silvers spent - without even the possibility to threaten/drive away the person that is doing the (soon to be no longer illegal) grieving like on PvP. How is that PvE? Its becoming worse than PvP.

 

Wurm Team, I still request a public solution to this problem,

 

Thank you for your time,

Thor

 

PS. for the (good intended) people claiming that there are very few that would go through the trouble to do so. You may be right, but it is irrelevant. It suffices one to do it and you can be grieved to no end. What if today i get really upset on someone and i know i can just grief him in complete legality, how is that PvE? As long as the possibility is there, nothing is really safe. And enclosures were really safe.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Thorakkanath

[Amber 337]

Exactly, you know how long it takes to bash something that ql off deed, even a pault would be some serious investment. 

You can load a pult in a wagon along with some high ql ammo. I bet I can take down your 70ql stone wall in less time than you'd think and I'm not nearly as skilled with a pult as many others are.. Have no doubt there WILL be people who will have a lot of fun doing exactly this as soon as the rule changes and there will not be anything you, or the GM's, can do about it. 

 

By removing the enclosure rule rather than just altering it Rolf is making a serious mistake. 

[FreeTineen 430]

You can load a pult in a wagon along with some high ql ammo. I bet I can take down your 70ql stone wall in less time than you'd think and I'm not nearly as skilled with a pult as many others are.. Have no doubt there WILL be people who will have a lot of fun doing exactly this as soon as the rule changes and there will not be anything you, or the GM's, can do about it. 

 

By removing the enclosure rule rather than just altering it Rolf is making a serious mistake. 

 

Yeah you can but its still an effort. And yeah can see their being a spike after the enclosure rule but as a long term problem, I think its people worrying too much. I don't fancy building an unfinished pault, mining out 200 lead just so I can get at some newbies cotton field and a wild horse.

 

The enclosures were misused, its as simple as that. 

[Zetuka 118]

most of the enclosures off deed are for private tree farm, i don't see people bringing catapult just for trees, also any valuable items can be stored in house which is still protected against grief.

[Thorakkanath 444]

Please, let's stay on the subject. The subject is ways to protect the space in between deeds/perimeters.

 

Not how often that happens or what they are used for or how hard it is to break in.

 

Thank you

[Marshlander 188]

Solution: let traps work on perimeter on PvE servers.

 

Or: implement pet orders to attack on perimeter trespassing.

 

Alternative: open it up completely and put up signs asking to respect the property.

[Pashka 707]

While it was against the rules to break into an enclosure, it wasn't something that wasn't possible to do.  So they were never completely safe.  The longhouse method is the best method to connect those.  If it is going to take alot to put that area flat you may need to take a chance with some walls.  Sorry this doesn't or won't help you.  I know several are worried about this happening.  I think it is good in the long run.  I wasn't ever a fan of the enclosure rule.

[Thorakkanath 444]

@Marshlander

 

well I see another solution, be able to expand deeds within the free perimeter, or disabling the perimeter if you so want to.

[Serpentarius 186]

Solution: let traps work on perimeter on PvE servers.

FYI traps have worked anywhere on PvE server for years: they triggers when a KOS'd player walks on them (edit: and it doesn't have to be on deed or in perimeter so we are clear here: it works EVERYWHERE you can set a trap) and i have recently seen them trigger when aggro animals walk on them.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Serpentarius

[Marshlander 188]

Or allow for perimeter overlap between two deeds (or with the lands of wurm when there's no overlap) and implement a permission-based protection (terraforming, bashing, mining, cutting trees) on perimeter, using the more lenient permission of the two:

 

1. On the perimeter sides where there is no overlap with another deed, the laws of the lands of wurm apply.

 

2. On the perimeter sides that overlap between deeds, both deedholders can exercise their permissions (or grant them to the public).

 

That would allow deed holders to exercise deed permissions on the perimeter in between their two deeds.

 

FYI traps have worked anywhere on PvE server for years: they triggers when a KOS'd player walks on them and i have recently seen then triggers when aggro animals walk on them.

 

Interesting. I think I've heard multiple times that they wouldn't work on PvE and especially not versus aggro mobs. So many half-truths out there! Thanks!

[ScarfaceRo 79]

[sTUF]

 

It is outrageous that on PvE you get to the point where you cannot secure your own area due to game mechanics or face

 

[MORE STUF]

 

Well, here's the key of the whole problem.

 

You only "own" the area you chose to deed. Anything else - perimeter, enclosures, free land, etc - is not something you own.

 

Yes you put a claim on that land and most people may chose to respect your claim out of good will; you can try to make it harder to be abused in order to discourage other people trying to do. But ultimately it is and should be fair game. Consider anything out of deed a temporary solution, not a long time investment.

 

The whole problem resided from here that people (like you, but not limited to you) considered that they own the land they don't pay for, made plans for that land, made investments on that land, etc. However they never actually owned that land, so all those investments were made on their own risk - yeah, they enjoyed it a while, it was protected for a while, now it's back to how it was supposed to be - deed it or (be prepared to) lose it.

 

Really, probably the best solution in your case would be to rethink your area and really count only on what you have deeded.

Edited April 25, 2014 by ScarfaceRo