Refund for those that followed Rolfs warning!

[FreeTineen 430]

If he wouldn't be making it cheaper, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

Exactly.

[Alec 729]

1. Rolf warns people about the change of rules and that they should prepare.

People prepares deeding and expanding.

Time pass.

Rolf lower prices.

People get upset over this.

 

Once again, I don't play on freedom, and I don't care what happens there, but I have empathy, and I can have sympathy over fellow players that were affected by Rolfs doing.

 

And as I said over here I don't think that this was done with bad intentions, is just that Code Club works like this.

The only thing we can do is talk about it, and try to avoid stuff like this happening in the future. Which I see as a good thing, feedback is never a bad thing.

[gnomegates 1,429]

I got to say just because you knee jerk reacted to something he said doesn't mean you are entitled to a refund, if you had so much off deed it cost you waht 100 silver plus to reinforce you area, your one of the reasons the enclosure rule was being looked at.

 

You cause the problem, you pay the cost.

 

 

Wow assume much? I had already paid to have the entire area perimeter, I just expanded my deed within that perimeter, so no I was not "abusing" the legal enclosure feature. I simply did not want people to be able to come onto the perimeter even if I wall it off (which I had not done yet) and do as they please because it was not part of a deed......

[gnomegates 1,429]

If he wouldn't be making it cheaper, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

 

IF there was better communication from the leadership of this game to us PAYING players, then things like this would not happen. It is not a knee jerk reaction when someone reacts to something the owner says is coming soon. Especially since there has been no other communication from the leadership, and they have been known to make decisions and not communicate those decisions to the player base untill they are in place.

 

Those of us that "reacted" did so because we were told to do so. We all could have woke up this morning and they decided to remove the rule all together and not tell anyone until they did it. What would you do then when it became a free for all.....We were told to prepare, we did so.

[FreeTineen 430]

Wow assume much? I had already paid to have the entire area perimeter, I just expanded my deed within that perimeter, so no I was not "abusing" the legal enclosure feature. I simply did not want people to be able to come onto the perimeter even if I wall it off (which I had not done yet) and do as they please because it was not part of a deed......

 

"We were told by Rolf several weeks ago to prepare for the enclosure changes. Many of us started to do just that, I went out and deeded much of my land that I had used as enclosure to make it now under my full control."

 

Your post stated you deeded over an enclosure, and clearly by the cost a large one. Not really a jump to a conclusion if you state within the op. However, I will say that if you expanded your perimeter for protection I have to ask why, permittee entitles you to deed within that area later, it offers no protection towards anything else besides people building within it.

 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, and i'm not trying to flame war at all i'm just confused why you decided to do this. I don't see why Rolf offering a discount at a later date provides logic to it giving you a refund. If I bulk buy bread because the news says wheat prices are going up, I would not be refunded if this does not become so.

[gnomegates 1,429]

"We were told by Rolf several weeks ago to prepare for the enclosure changes. Many of us started to do just that, I went out and deeded much of my land that I had used as enclosure to make it now under my full control."

 

Your post stated you deeded over an enclosure, and clearly by the cost a large one. Not really a jump to a conclusion if you state within the op. However, I will say that if you expanded your perimeter for protection I have to ask why, permittee entitles you to deed within that area later, it offers no protection towards anything else besides people building within it.

 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, and i'm not trying to flame war at all i'm just confused why you decided to do this. I don't see why Rolf offering a discount at a later date provides logic to it giving you a refund. If I bulk buy bread because the news says wheat prices are going up, I would not be refunded if this does not become so.

 

No but if you buy bulk bread because the bread maker says he is no longer making bread, so you buy up what you need, then 2 weeks later he changes his mind and says no only is he going to keep making bread, but he is going to lower the price of it, you bet you will be mad.

 

The issue here is that we were told that legal enclosures were going away and to prepare for that. I was not clear in my intentions for the deed, yes it was perimeter, but I was also in the process of walling it off, this is why I said I had not done so yet. After that fact I was going to shrink the perimeter down to more manageable upkeep cost, but I would still be paying for deed and perimeter, and relaying on the "legal enclosure" rule to protect the outer parts of it. (talking about an island here) With the announcing of "legal enclosures" going away, this had to be rethought and the only way to make the area "secure" was to now deed it all. This deeding was ONLY done in response to Rolf telling us to take action. Had that never happened, I would not have expanded my deed to take up what used to be perimeter. I wold have continued to put up my walls. Knowing that the "legal enclosure" rule was going away, the only way to protect the area was to deed it, all a reaction to what we were told to do. But now the very thing we were told to do, we are told will be cheaper.

 

Yes in the end it falls on me for even doing it, I'm not blaming anyone for anything like some people seem to think. I take full responsibility for the action of deeding, but when someone makes an action based off of the info that we were given, then the other party should bare some responsibility for not communicating intentions. If they did not know they were going to do this in the first place, then they should not have told people to even prepare. Telling people to prepare should have been announced today with the announcement of a price change, not 3 weeks before

 

Hope that clears it up a little bit.

[eyerobot 202]

Whild i agree that all costs should be standardized retroactively, I did not expand my deed. But only in hopes of being able to move to the new server.  But it seems that they have decided to ruin that as well.  My decision right now, Is to not put another cent into anything, Until I see a fair and working game.

[FreeTineen 430]

No but if you buy bulk bread because the bread maker says he is no longer making bread, so you buy up what you need, then 2 weeks later he changes his mind and says no only is he going to keep making bread, but he is going to lower the price of it, you bet you will be mad.

 

The issue here is that we were told that legal enclosures were going away and to prepare for that. I was not clear in my intentions for the deed, yes it was perimeter, but I was also in the process of walling it off, this is why I said I had not done so yet. After that fact I was going to shrink the perimeter down to more manageable upkeep cost, but I would still be paying for deed and perimeter, and relaying on the "legal enclosure" rule to protect the outer parts of it. (talking about an island here) With the announcing of "legal enclosures" going away, this had to be rethought and the only way to make the area "secure" was to now deed it all. This deeding was ONLY done in response to Rolf telling us to take action. Had that never happened, I would not have expanded my deed to take up what used to be perimeter. I wold have continued to put up my walls. Knowing that the "legal enclosure" rule was going away, the only way to protect the area was to deed it, all a reaction to what we were told to do. But now the very thing we were told to do, we are told will be cheaper.

 

Yes in the end it falls on me for even doing it, I'm not blaming anyone for anything like some people seem to think. I take full responsibility for the action of deeding, but when someone makes an action based off of the info that we were given, then the other party should bare some responsibility for not communicating intentions. If they did not know they were going to do this in the first place, then they should not have told people to even prepare. Telling people to prepare should have been announced today with the announcement of a price change, not 3 weeks before

 

Hope that clears it up a little bit.

 

Very much so and I understand your actions much more clearly now, and whilst I do not agree that a refund is necessary, I will agree that Rolf needs to improve his ability to communicate with his player base. In itself this is a flaw of Wurm, a complicated game where one simple rule change can have many ramifications for the player base and it can be at times difficult for the staff who are formalizing new ideas to to interject in a detailed or informative manner. Yet, this somehow does need to be improved, the absence of inform action in itself creates misinformation. This has been a long standing discussion with Wurm. 

 

I hope you can utilize this investment in your deed towards an advantage for yourself and wish you the best of luck, but a discount later cannot simply be cause of a refund. Despite the words to "secure your perimeter" I did not feel the need to do very much myself because I was waiting for more information, hell even confirmation. This does not make me right or you wrong but simply an unfortunate series of events.

 

Edit: Sorry if its a bit ramble ramble, my two brain cells sometimes conflict with each other.

Edited April 24, 2014 by FreeTineen

[meiyeeer 78]

+1, this sounds very reasonable.

And if it's too hard to figure out who did what, I don't think a blanket discount/refund for expansion would be unreasonable either. Perhaps only since the announcement, if you want to limit it.

[gnomegates 1,429]

Very much so and I understand your actions much more clearly now, and whilst I do not agree that a refund is necessary, I will agree that Rolf needs to improve his ability to communicate with his player base. In itself this is a flaw of Wurm, a complicated game where one simple rule change can have many ramifications for the player base and it can be at times difficult for the staff who are formalizing new ideas to to interject in a detailed or informative manner. Yet, this somehow does need to be improved, the absence of inform action in itself creates misinformation. This has been a long standing discussion with Wurm. 

 

I hope you can utilize this investment in your deed towards an advantage for yourself and wish you the best of luck, but a discount later cannot simply be cause of a refund. Despite the words to "secure your perimeter" I did not feel the need to do very much myself because I was waiting for more information, hell even confirmation. This does not make me right or you wrong but simply an unfortunate series of events.

 

I understand and agree with what you are saying, in looking back, waiting would have been the best thing, I'm asking for a refund, but do not expect one. Nor will it effect my continuation of playing the game. From a business point of view, had I been the reason for my customers to be out something, be it money or any other "thing of value" I would do my best to make it right.

 

Honestly I will be happy if they look at this and improve the lines of communication if that is all we get out of any of this I will be happy. I believe strongly in right and wrong, and when a business does something to wrong their customers, they should do what they can to make it right. It is what I do in my businesses, and I try to hold others to the same standards.

 

Thanks for understanding

[Forgedrake 130]

it seems like if you would have deeded your area in the beginning this wouldn't have been a issue since you wouldn't have had to scramble to expand to fix the problem

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

No refund was given last time deed cost was reduced, so would not really fair to do this time.

When was that? 

The only reduction I remember is the initial one, which wasn't even a reduction. We were all still using AoCed villages at that point, and it was all talk on the forums anyway. Rolf was gonna charge such and such, and I think it ended up being Gavin's idea # wise that ended up making the game. We all got full disbands from the AoC system after the new format was introduced anyway.

My problem with this whole thing is, I have invested a certain amount into deed tileage in this game, and there has always been a mechanic in game that offered me half of my initial purchase into the deed back, if I wished to remove the deed (disband). Now, if i do disband, my deed will now only be worth 1/4 of its initial investment. I find that completely unreasonable.

 

[Suntan 84]

If I buy a car today and the price is lower tomorrow, that is my problem not the dealerships. 

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

If I buy a car today and the price is lower tomorrow, that is my problem not the dealerships. 

The disband model of receiving half back has been a mechanic and staple "rule" for how long? 8+ years...

Also, don't compare this to real life items that have "wear and tear". I pay my monthly upkeep as rent to cover any future maintenance fees, in that regard. If you want to compare it to something, compare it to rental of housing. I have paid my rent in full, and now I am told that starting as of today, my security deposit is worth only half of what I had given them and what was mutually initially agreed upon.

Edited April 25, 2014 by As_I_Decay

[Mishia 74]

-1

130s is an impressive amount of money for a simple enclosure, I would count my losses, consider it back payment for the land you've been using and move on - because you love the game, Rolf, the developers and so wish to support them as much as you can right?

[ScarfaceRo 79]

Don't know what you talk about, but when you disband the deed you get money in maintenance or 5s no matter which one is bigger. No matter if it a 11x11 deed or 201x201 deed.

Disband money is not connected in any way with number of tiles or money spent, so you lose nothing.

Please correct me if I miss anything.

[GorgonKain 355]

-1

 

I also set deeds (some since then), but I don't demand any refund.

 

Things change. If price would have been increased, you would have offered to pay the difference?

 

And that was just a warning; you could have waited and do the expansion the day the enclosures would have been removed.

 

It was yours and only yours decision to do it now.

 

Yeah, basically this. You jumped the gun, you bite the bullet. 

[spellcast 983]

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*

 

Back when rolf added the current deed system and pricing, he gave all of the old style deeds a refund. This is a similar situation and I think it would be in his best interests to give all players who have placed or expanded a deed since he posted the thread about enclosure changes a refund on tiles they purchased in that time frame, even if the refunded coin was only added to the deed upkeep.

 

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*

[gnomegates 1,429]

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*

 

Back when rolf added the current deed system and pricing, he gave all of the old style deeds a refund. This is a similar situation and I think it would be in his best interests to give all players who have placed or expanded a deed since he posted the thread about enclosure changes a refund on tiles they purchased in that time frame, even if the refunded coin was only added to the deed upkeep.

 

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*

 

So if what you say is true, there is past history that supports what is being asked. Thats interesting.

 

For those of you that decided to use this chance to come in here and attack and belittle and to treat myself and others like dirt, shame on you. This is a freaking game. If you cannot come into a medium and conduct yourself with respect towards others and have civil discourse, then you should keep your mouth shut. But to go on the attack and treat people the way many of you have treated me and others that agree with me is just plan sad. Post your thoughts and opinions if you have them, but be respectful about it. There is no reason for anyone to get so upset and worked up over anything like this, as some of you seem to be....just does not make sense. You don't like my idea, fine, state your reasons why, but you don't need to be hostile about it....

Edited April 25, 2014 by gnomegates

[GorgonKain 355]

I do not see one post that is personally attacking you in any uncouth manner. Posting their thoughts and opinions on the matter are exactly what all of us just did. Just because they disagree strongly does not mean they are treating you disrespectfully. 

 

On the topic of past precedence, that was for an overhaul of deeds, not just a quick cost reduction to follow removal of perim. The perimeter was not meant to be used in the fashion it was, and this leads to a little land loss. I do not think past adjudications will apply in this case, it is a different scenario with different problems. 

 

Again, seems like a lot of people simply panicked and made a bad choice. Some worse than others obliviously. This is not the companies fault, it is not Rolf's responsibility, unless he chooses to make it his.

 

By -1 I mean a blanket disregard for refunds not associated with total game glitches or magic disappearances not related to player theft. 

If Rolf feels the need to placate those who jumped the gun, I am all for it, but expecting it is like waiting for Duke Nukem: Forever. Might happen, might not, but when it does, it will probably not be as nice as you were expecting. 

[gnomegates 1,429]

I do not see one post that is personally attacking you in any uncouth manner. Posting their thoughts and opinions on the matter are exactly what all of us just did. Just because they disagree strongly does not mean they are treating you disrespectfully. 

 

On the topic of past precedence, that was for an overhaul of deeds, not just a quick cost reduction to follow removal of perim. The perimeter was not meant to be used in the fashion it was, and this leads to a little land loss. I do not think past adjudications will apply in this case, it is a different scenario with different problems. 

 

Again, seems like a lot of people simply panicked and made a bad choice. Some worse than others obliviously. This is not the companies fault, it is not Rolf's responsibility, unless he chooses to make it his.

 

By -1 I mean a blanket disregard for refunds not associated with total game glitches or magic disappearances not related to player theft. 

If Rolf feels the need to placate those who jumped the gun, I am all for it, but expecting it is like waiting for Duke Nukem: Forever. Might happen, might not, but when it does, it will probably not be as nice as you were expecting. 

 

I was talking about someone that has since had to change their post, as they did in fact attack and call names. Others agreed with him before he was forced to change it. It is that kind of "attitude" "spirit" that I am talking about in general. Moving on....

 

I have already said that I do not expect it, but I do feel it is the right thing to do. I don't really understand how you can say we jumped the gun, when we were told to begin preparing, then 3 weeks go with no other communication or direction.

 

As many others did, I reacted to what the owner of the company said is going to happen, followed his own advice to prepare, and then in the end we find out the real changes after he does not respond in any manner.

 

Anyway, this has gone back and forth that it is starting to go in circles. Unless I am asked a direct question, there is no need for me to continue in this thread. It can be locked if those in power deem it necessary.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*

 

Back when rolf added the current deed system and pricing, he gave all of the old style deeds a refund. This is a similar situation and I think it would be in his best interests to give all players who have placed or expanded a deed since he posted the thread about enclosure changes a refund on tiles they purchased in that time frame, even if the refunded coin was only added to the deed upkeep.

 

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*

He should do a full free disband again. It would financially benefit him. 

Deed tiles are going to cost less, so more people are going to be inclined to purchase more than they did before. The catch here is, upkeep remains the same.

I know that if he gives me a full free disband, i'm going to be expanding my deed quite a bit from its previous size. That's more upkeep for him and happiness for me. We both win.

 

[Mongoo 50]

I really just have to point out, rolf never said "Hurry up and deed your enclosures now!" he suggested preparing for it, never suggested actually doing it because they were still figuring things out.  Its pretty explicit in his message, so I really dont feel sympathy for people who jumped the gun before he even had a chance to announce the official plan.

[Branvas 19]

He should do a full free disband again. It would financially benefit him. 

Deed tiles are going to cost less, so more people are going to be inclined to purchase more than they did before. The catch here is, upkeep remains the same.

I know that if he gives me a full free disband, i'm going to be expanding my deed quite a bit from its previous size. That's more upkeep for him and happiness for me. We both win.

 

 

Totally agree, refund every deed, if the owner wants it, so that the owner has the option to move the token, move totally or just re-deed at the new price & use the coin elsewhere, after all every deed just got devalued!

[NeeNee 855]

Spellcast, I like your words of sanity. Glad to say there's a precedent for this, and I hope Rolf sees sense, despite the players who maintain the 'cool kids' Wurmian stance of no pity/sociopathic nonsense.

 

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*

 

Back when rolf added the current deed system and pricing, he gave all of the old style deeds a refund. This is a similar situation and I think it would be in his best interests to give all players who have placed or expanded a deed since he posted the thread about enclosure changes a refund on tiles they purchased in that time frame, even if the refunded coin was only added to the deed upkeep.

 

*This is my personal opinion, and has been posted as a player*