Playerbase count (PvP vs PvE)

[Kyrmius 193]

I was talking about PvE, and not about PvP(don't know why you guys have to make everything about PvP).

 

 

Wurm doesn't have proper PvE.

 

And yes, its PvP is slightly better, but is the only reason why I play Wurm.

 

I was talking about PvE.

 

Nevermind. You did not understand what I attempted to communicate.

[Xandra 353]

Hi,
 

PvP mechanics in wurm are incredibly basic, trying to bring in PvPers to a game which has one of the worst pvp mechanics in the industry is pointless which is why PvPers dont contribute as much as PvEers in forms of money.

^^ This!

You reply:

While this is true if you look at the combat alone it's not true if you look at the whole picture. Which other games features terraforming, building, stealing from other peoples houses, full loot etc?

Who cares? If the PvP mechanics are this bad already, why ever start building a deed or terraforming? The next old jerk coming over will destroy it, with no means for you to hinder her.

Why should I play Wurm PvP if it's by far no real PvP? You ever tried GuildWars, UnrealTournament, CounterStrike? That's what is defining PvP. Coming in, and with no big grind being able to enter the fray, at equal terms. Player skill, not time spent and/ or money spent. That's PvP!

Wurm PvP? A gank feast compared. May be better on Epic, on Chaos you'll always be the looser as long as you don't buy one of the old, high skilled chars (wink, wink).

I'd really love to have a good Wurm PvP - after all I have learned this can be a lot of fun (even in WoW *) ).

But we are far away from this, IMHO.

Have fun!

*) WoW Battlegrounds: You cannot imagine how much fun this was! Dieing constantly (low skilled), but sometimes actually getting a kill point for better gear! And never losing anything. Just FUN!

Edited April 25, 2014 by Xandra

[Object 281]

I have the feeling that pvp players mass murdering and full looting the "I want to win hota" will be the only real winners. Of course I can be totally wrong here, but your proposal smells like a trap to me.

 

She isn't JK so she doesn't believe in traps.

 

I have just a question about PvP: can I succed at it with keeping a small deed and playing on my own?

 

Yes, but raiding solo might not be recommended because the zerg always wins.

 

I play mostly on Epic too, Serenity + Elevation and mostly PvE. I also like the added danger and usefulness of things you build etc. But this makes me a soft PvP:er. Not a Pure PvE player. A pure PvE player will never enjoy the PvP features.

 

PvE players are annoyed when something is made less enjoyable or not implemented at all because it would ruin PvP when it would have been great from a purely PvE perspective. PvP players get annoyed when new PvE stuff is added that ruins PvP in some way, like making the road to become competitive longer or altering city defense mechanics and so on. 

 

This is natural, these problems will exist as long as the game doesn't purely focus on either PvE or PvP, but that would make the game alot less interesting in my opinion.

 

I truly don't like Wurm pvp, I moved to epic for two reasons, for what I do to have some value and to get this awesome epic curve so my low level skills are actually good.  I didn't come for the pvp at all, I participated in pvp once, our side won but I felt I wasted an hour.  It just wasn't enjoyable at all and I'll only do it again if I'm forced into it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm still skilling pvp oriented skills like archery, but that's only as a defense.  That's also another beauty of Wurm pvp, it makes you want to skill certain things like masonry, archery, weapon and shield skills, etc.  On freedom you have to find your own reason to do things, nothing is really required of you, that's something that eventually wears on you and makes you feel like your just going through the motions instead of contributing to a cause.

[Torgrim 403]

Hi,

 

^^ This!

You reply:

Who cares? If the PvP mechanics are this bad already, why ever start building a deed or terraforming? The next old jerk coming over will destroy it, with no means for you to hinder her.

Why should I play Wurm PvP if it's by far no real PvP? You ever tried GuildWars, UnrealTournament, CounterStrike? That's what is defining PvP. Coming in, and with no big grind being able to enter the fray, at equal terms. Player skill, not time spent and/ or money spent. That's PvP!

Wurm PvP? A gank feast compared. May be better on Epic, on Chaos you'll always be the looser as long as you don't buy one of the old, high skilled chars (wink, wink).

I'd really love to have a good Wurm PvP - after all I have learned this can be a lot of fun (even in WoW *) ).

But we are far away from this, IMHO.

Have fun!

*) WoW Battlegrounds: You cannot imagine how much fun this was! Dieing constantly (low skilled), but sometimes actually getting a kill point for better gear! And never losing anything. Just FUN!

 

You have done right not bothering with Wurm PvP, it will never and should never be like those games you refer to. What would be the point? It has been done to death already.

 

Wurm aims at being realistic, it takes a long time to build and it takes a big effort to break in and when you do, things gets destroyed. 

 

The only part that should be anything like ordinary MMO PvP is the combat in it self, and here things can be alot better than they are )this is true for PvE combat as well). The other parts are what defines this game, you can't change that or this will not be Wurm anymore and then people can just go play something else.

 

I do agree that it takes too long to be competitive, at least on Chaos. You can still make a difference though if you run with a group of others.  It is alot easier on Epic, no need for drake sets or whaterver but getting 31 BC, high enough shield skill etc still takes considerable effort. 

[Brunwulf 470]

Wurm pvp can be fun if all the big fights weren't ruined by lag.

Wurm pvp is like watching a picture slideshow at the moment

[Alec 729]

Hi,

 

^^ This!

You reply:

Who cares? If the PvP mechanics are this bad already, why ever start building a deed or terraforming? The next old jerk coming over will destroy it, with no means for you to hinder her.

Why should I play Wurm PvP if it's by far no real PvP? You ever tried GuildWars, UnrealTournament, CounterStrike? That's what is defining PvP. Coming in, and with no big grind being able to enter the fray, at equal terms. Player skill, not time spent and/ or money spent. That's PvP!

Wurm PvP? A gank feast compared. May be better on Epic, on Chaos you'll always be the looser as long as you don't buy one of the old, high skilled chars (wink, wink).

I'd really love to have a good Wurm PvP - after all I have learned this can be a lot of fun (even in WoW *) ).

But we are far away from this, IMHO.

Have fun!

*) WoW Battlegrounds: You cannot imagine how much fun this was! Dieing constantly (low skilled), but sometimes actually getting a kill point for better gear! And never losing anything. Just FUN!

 

 

Is funny that all the PvP you talk about is fast paced shooters or mindless lock and spam.

And I really hope for Wurm PvP to never become that type of PvP from which I flee.

 

The market is already full of it, we don't need more of that stuff.

[Propheteer 7,139]

You have done right not bothering with Wurm PvP, it will never and should never be like those games you refer to. What would be the point? It has been done to death already.

 

Wurm aims at being realistic, it takes a long time to build and it takes a big effort to break in and when you do, things gets destroyed. 

 

The only part that should be anything like ordinary MMO PvP is the combat in it self, and here things can be alot better than they are )this is true for PvE combat as well). The other parts are what defines this game, you can't change that or this will not be Wurm anymore and then people can just go play something else.

 

I do agree that it takes too long to be competitive, at least on Chaos. You can still make a difference though if you run with a group of others.  It is alot easier on Epic, no need for drake sets or whaterver but getting 31 BC, high enough shield skill etc still takes considerable effort. 

 

You don't need very much to PvP on Epic TBH.

 

Recently, a fight that we lost as BL when i was on Candee, I did something decisive on a relatively weak PvP account by simply playing my cards right and catching the opponents off guard with a fungus trap that resulted in 3 kills for our side.

 

Even if you aren't able to do something like that, an extra person to shieldbash, an extra archer to eliminate horses, an extra person to go after are all big helpers.

 

You don't need to be a heavy hitter, you don't need an account like Gary/Smeagain/Gomeo, you don't need tons of experience like Myself, Posteh, Inventor, you don't need to be level 11 on a meditation path like Borken, Duyu, or Villz, and you don't need a champ nor do you need a hellhorse. Everyone can fit into roles, as long as you mesh well with the people you play with, they can make up your faults, and you can make up for theirs.

 

The combat isn't anything special, there are no real skillful maneuvers, the only big things are things like strategic minds. The main difference between the pvper and the pver is the value of the items they use, how they wish to spend their time, and what they chose as a reason to play the game. A PvPer like myself, likes to have intentional ingame encouragements and incentives to do things rather than just i want to get 500 horses and 90 farming, i prefer to have both and a need to split my time. But thats me, thats not everyone. I would like it if others tried out our clusters, but it simply wont unless it gets more appealing and the PvP community as a whole does a better job of representing themselves on the forums like we do outside of the game. On the forums we call eachother names and get banned for trolling like 3 times a month, outside of the game we play CSGO/LoL/Smite together and barely argue.

 

If people we're able to encourage everyone to try out each cluster, better the community, and Rolf was able to better incorporate the community with his designs, i feel both clusters would pick up, and even today i doubt that will ever happen, because it hasn't ever happened in the past.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Propheteer

[GorgonKain 355]

Wurm doesn't have proper PvE.

 

Do you know what the acronym PvE stands for? It is player versus environment. Fighting with a nasty rock tile that is interrupting your vision can be constituted as an environmental battle. Those trees you hit everyday, those are part of the environment too haus. Last I checked you were killing them dead. 

 

Just because WoW players think PvE is kill a thousand boars, that does not meant that is the definition. 

Edited April 27, 2014 by GorgonKain

[Alec 729]

You don't need very much to PvP on Epic TBH.

Even if you aren't able to do something like that, an extra person to shieldbash, an extra archer to eliminate horses, an extra person to go after are all big helpers.

 

You don't need to be a heavy hitter, you don't need an account like Gary/Smeagain/Gomeo, you don't need tons of experience like Myself, Posteh, Inventor, you don't need to be level 11 on a meditation path like Borken, Duyu, or Villz, and you don't need a champ nor do you need a hellhorse. Everyone can fit into roles, as long as you mesh well with the people you play with, they can make up your faults, and you can make up for theirs.

 

Something like this needs to be on the description of Epic when you finish the tutorial.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you know what the acronym PvE stands for? It is player versus environment. Fighting with a nasty rock tile that is interrupting your vision can be constituted as an environmental battle. Those trees you hit everyday, those are part of the environment too haus. Last I checked you were killing them dead. 

 

Just because WoW players think PvE is kill a thousand boars, that does not meant that is the definition. 

 

 

 

You perfectly knew what I was talking about, and you intentionally miss the point.

I'm not gonna take your bait and start arguing about what PvE stands for, as its clear that I implied that Wurm doesn't have a proper PvE in my opinion.

You gotta try better next time.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Alec

[GorgonKain 355]

No, I actually have no idea what you meant or what point you are trying to make. My point is that "proper" PvE is not what every other mmo considers it to be. It is more a blanket statement. 

[Theodis 339]

Do you know what the acronym PvE stands for? It is player versus environment. Fighting with a nasty rock tile that is interrupting your vision can be constituted as an environmental battle. Those trees you hit everyday, those are part of the environment too haus. Last I checked you were killing them dead. 

 

Just because WoW players think PvE is kill a thousand boars, that does not meant that is the definition.

Well yeah environmental challenges doesn't necessarily mean committing genocide on the local wildlife population. In a game like project zomboid the weather is an environmental challenge as it can make you sick and slow you down. In NEO Scavenger getting clean water is an environmental challenge. But to be a challenge it has to give off some level of opposition and you know challenge you in some way or generate consequences that hinder you.

The trees in wurm provide no challenge when chopping them down. Trees can prove to be an environmental challenge when they hinder your view and make spotting other hostile stuff harder in the case of dense olive trees but in that case their being a challenge depends on the wildlife being a threat to you.

Building and crafting are not inherently PvE activities anymore than drawing a picture in paint because there is no opposition nor do the activities put you at an increased risk over just being in a hostile area. The real PvE in wurm is the survival simulation and the aggressive wildlife both of which could use a lot of improvement. But any suggestions to that effect just gets shot down because people just see them as getting in the way of building and crafting.

I think you know what the E stands for in PvE but you're forgetting about the two letters before it. It's the player verses environment. If the environment isn't fighting back it's not much of a match.

[joojoo1975 51]

I grow weary of both sides fighting

 

lets face it, we need each other

 

if not we would either be a LOTR or a darkfall

 

 

I like PVP, I also like elements of PVE but then I get bored as I can usually outwit the npc's

 

but others Hate the aspect of PVP(either the act itself or the type of people and gamingstyle that come with PVP)

 

personally, Rolf should have a think tank of each kind of group and run his ideas by them and get their perspective on each update he does.

 

 

 

to be honest, I feel; if the devs took a more community active role in their playerbase, the games would flourish.  but with a temperament and not a "customer is always right" attitude

[Alec 729]

 

personally, Rolf should have a think tank of each kind of group and run his ideas by them and get their perspective on each update he does.

 

 

But in theory we have now(?) a committee of veteran players.

[WTSsomestuff 16]

PvP is Buddy Revel

PvE is Jerry Mitchell

[Object 281]

Everyone can fit into roles, as long as you mesh well with the people you play with, they can make up your faults, and you can make up for theirs.

 

I would like it if others tried out our clusters, but it simply wont unless it gets more appealing and the PvP community as a whole does a better job of representing themselves on the forums like we do outside of the game. On the forums we call eachother names and get banned for trolling like 3 times a month, outside of the game we play CSGO/LoL/Smite together and barely argue.

 

If people we're able to encourage everyone to try out each cluster, better the community, and Rolf was able to better incorporate the community with his designs, i feel both clusters would pick up, and even today i doubt that will ever happen, because it hasn't ever happened in the past.

 

Well said my friend, well said.  A lot of people think Rolf is killing Wurm, I disagree, I think he's trying his best and in reality it's the response from the community that is leaving a terrible taste in everyone elses mouths.

[KunAlt 844]

In the end if wurm have or don´t have areal PvE/PvP is just another vain debate, the fact is some people like the Freedom isles style, some like the epic servers and other group like how things work on chaos. There is room for all of them, and i have no right to criticize people just because his choice is not my choice.

 

Yes is true, sometimes changes made to improve/balance epic and chaos trample on Freedom isles game and Freedomers have to grind teeth and swallow, sometimes is the other way around.

 

Sadly most of the time some pvp people have an aggressive attitude against people not playing in their style, and like to call names like freedumbers, carebears, etc. Of course they do so because is easy to make fun of some unknow person in the comfortable anonymity of a PC desk, I´m not superman but i bet more than one of that valiant and courageous individuals will twink more than twice before doing the same in a face to face situation. In top of that they like to have an strong opinion and try to make the scale go in this or that direction on things not affecting his play style at all, like anyone can see in the last posts about enclosures, enclosures and FCC are only valid for pve servers and make not a single dent on Epic/Chaos, yet some people can´t resist the temptation to troll or worst proposing pvp as the final solution.

 

There are several suggestions in the forum for improving or modify some pvp aspects of the game and you can rarely see even one pve guy trolling that posts.

[Propheteer 7,139]

In the end if wurm have or don´t have areal PvE/PvP is just another vain debate, the fact is some people like the Freedom isles style, some like the epic servers and other group like how things work on chaos. There is room for all of them, and i have no right to criticize people just because his choice is not my choice.

 

Yes is true, sometimes changes made to improve/balance epic and chaos trample on Freedom isles game and Freedomers have to grind teeth and swallow, sometimes is the other way around.

 

Sadly most of the time some pvp people have an aggressive attitude against people not playing in their style, and like to call names like freedumbers, carebears, etc. Of course they do so because is easy to make fun of some unknow person in the comfortable anonymity of a PC desk, I´m not superman but i bet more than one of that valiant and courageous individuals will twink more than twice before doing the same in a face to face situation. In top of that they like to have an strong opinion and try to make the scale go in this or that direction on things not affecting his play style at all, like anyone can see in the last posts about enclosures, enclosures and FCC are only valid for pve servers and make not a single dent on Epic/Chaos, yet some people can´t resist the temptation to troll or worst proposing pvp as the final solution.

 

There are several suggestions in the forum for improving or modify some pvp aspects of the game and you can rarely see even one pve guy trolling that posts.

 

i love how your post started off nice and ended extremely biased

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Carebears > PvPers