An Epic Problem

[Object 281]

I wonder if any of the devs actually read this post.

[Rathgar 959]

I wonder if any of the devs actually read this post.

 

you mean the group of reviewers that was to be elected ?  or maybe this topics global in-game poll is pending and will be reviewed shortly.

[Object 281]

you mean the group of reviewers that was to be elected ?  or maybe this topics global in-game poll is pending and will be reviewed shortly.

 

True, I guess the in game polling system will be implemented soon.

[Battlepaw 585]

An epic player asking for land the size of Chaos?   LOL.... oh the irony.    

[Object 281]

An epic player asking for land the size of Chaos?   LOL.... oh the irony.    

 

It's a two fold thing, I don't believe either Chaos or Epic got it right, pvp is fun in small groups and in large groups it just causes problems, lag issues, zerg issues, etc etc.  A 4 vs 2 isn't as bad as a 10 vs 5 yet the ratios are exactly the same...go figure.

 

I think more smaller kingdoms on a bigger map is ideal, if it's needed I'd even go so far as to propose a limit on the number of characters in any given kingdom to artificially cap it and then allow kingdom leaders to kick out members who are offline so that they can have room for more active people.

 

This whole allowing kingdoms to front as many people as they can get their greedy little hands on is one of the main things deterring people from actually doing any pvping and that's wrong.

[Object 281]

This is still a problem but not many people are bumping it because they've all either given up on trying to fix the problem or quit epic already.

[NotArowhun 3]

I mount and blade for PvP now. Its a lot more fun since no pay to win, and fights are available all the time. Win win.

[NotArowhun 3]

An epic player asking for land the size of Chaos?   LOL.... oh the irony.    

 

 

irony in this post indeed.

[Arkhir 280]

This is still a problem but not many people are bumping it because they've all either given up on trying to fix the problem or quit epic already.

Dev team would have to actually implement selected conceptions to fix pvp or work out their own, and that's not very likely.

We, the players, can't really do much more than think about possible solutions to the issue and give feedback.

[Tryfaen 709]

Artificial game mechanics should never hinder pvp.(refering to Objects post about safe zones that kill enemy players simply for being within those boundries)

[Karellean 132]

Nice to see the idea is still kicking around.

 

 

ON PLAYER RESETS:

 

Regular Restarts are needed to priovide a fair and equal way for new players to enter the PVP game.

 

 

THERE ARE WAYS THE EXISTING CHARS COULD BE KEPT... AND WITH OVERALL BENEFIT

 

 

 

Best Option:

 

We already effectively have one "archived" PvP Server in Chaos, which happens to have ample space free.

 

So lets USE it... to add the characters being retired from Epic.

 

Every new reset.... The accounts from the upcoming server being reset are migrated to Chaos.

 

 

1. This deals with Character Preservation so many requested. Whilst not impacting that new server feel, new server balance, and the chance for new players to get a fairer footing.

 

2. This sees a REGULAR amount of fresh blood pushed to the Choas Server,, something that can only help them.

Sure, I know all these accounts got their skills on 2x Gain in Epic.... But when there is that many new players going to make the Choas world a better place... fair trade IMO....

 

3. Current HOMESERVERS, get attached to Chaos. (Not that personally I care, but it seems the neatest way to stop disquiet... which is what this is all about) (HOPEFULLY we never see home servers again)

 

 

 

Alternate Option:

 

IF due to Server cluster arrangements/difficulty we cannot get the current Epic accounts over to Chaos.

The the CURRENT Epic Cluster (Elevation+Home Servers) Stay exactly as it is.

 

The new server needs to be able to support this concept.... and be capable of feeding its accounts BACK to the current Epic cluster (or Chaos).

This allows us to be able to get regular resets on the new server, and not upset the teary type, who could not bear to start again supposedly.

 

 

SideNote: (With the amount of Alts everyone has these days, I scoff at the people complaining about stats resets... By starting these alts arae you not just doing the same thing ???)

ith regular resets your "Alts" can be created in a world that has meaning, and then every 12-18 months added to your collection on Choas/or Epic

 

---------

 

 

Extras:

 

If a new PvP environment is to start.... I do not there is NOT really room for both the current Epic setup and Choas, one or the other will likely need go.

 

I suggested Choas as first choice... so that we could condense the PvP population as best practical, and also free a cluster of servers.

The Choas map being larger, would be better suited for that potential population influx.

 

If the current homeserver maps could be connected to Choas... that would really make the solution neat.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Karellean

[Teosen 167]

Ten PVP changes in rescue a dying server epic.

 

 

1. Remove CR nerf from the home servers.

 

2. Reduced awards for mission at home serwers and increase on the enemy home serwers.

 

3. Remove protection merchants on epic home server.

 

4. Delete information on the number of players on each server ( /who and delete xml ! ).

 

5. Reduce silver cost and number of players required to establish PMK to 15 player with 70fs  ( 3 kingdom title for 15 player, 4 title for 20 player, 5 title for 25 player etc. ).

 

6. Reduce the amount of leading horses to one and a passenger on the ship can lead one horse.

 

7. Bonus for young players at elevation ( no idea ).

 

8. Reduce difficulty to take enemy guard towers and battle camp.

 

9. Reduce max speed knarr.

 

10. In the north add a new neutral continent without local chat ( new elevation ).

Edited May 3, 2014 by Teosen

[Rushy 48]

They need to make it so the client/server can handle approx 50 v 50 with 200 horses in local and combat going on, if they can manage that feat then I would think about these more complex changes.  But atm the actual game doesn't cope very well at even half those numbers.

[Rolf 3,563]

Hi,

 

although we're working mainly on fixing bugs and stuff like bridges, more decorative items and preparing for the Xanadu release right now, I just want to acknowledge that I hear what you're saying about the Epic cluster.

 

A lot of the mechanics are supposed to work like you want: Rock-paper-scissors is already there but apparently not noticable enough. The battle camps and towers are of course supposed to be vital points for conquering and capturing land does have good effects for your kingdom. There is also the HOTA and the scenarios and missions that are ingame with rewards but apparently aren't incentives enough right now.

 

From the OP:  involves a huge emphasis on territory, expansion, and incorporates some type of campaign format for warfare

 

I'm like 'that is the idea already'... Scenarios are the campaigns. You're supposed to want to expand and keep your territory and one of the reasons for this is that it should be easier to do missions if you hold more territory. 

 

Apparently that's not the case, at least not the perceived situation. 

 

also the entire map would be covered with chokepoints/capturable areas

 

That's the idea behind towers and battle camps. The more territory you have the easier you should have to get the resources you want.

 

However, they don't provide resources themselves. The HOTA does though, but apparently that is conquered all the time by one side. Taking control of the towers and the battle camps surrounding the HOTA would make it easier to gain those resources. 

 

Anyways, we should be able to have a serious discussion about all this in a while and hopefully some improvements before the summer.

 

What I'm saying is that we have quite a lot of disparate functionality to play around with that we can make compact and shine. Keep posting suggestions for how to make them play together nicely here.

[Kagrenac 812]

The thing is, with your recent changes there really isn't any reason to do anything but missions on your home server.

they are way easier, and going to an enemy home server for the current 2 hour reduction is not worth the risk.

 

Just look at what missions are done, the riskless home server missions are easily most of what is done.

The old system was much better as it rewarded you for doing missions on multiple servers, and for taking risks to complete them. Do missions it on all of the servers and your god moves, do it on 2 and your god moves decently fast.

 

The rewards are also kinda worthless, the spells are generally mediocre to bad and the debuffs completely ruin accounts. (A quick change that needs to be made is the physical debuff being reduced to 10% to be in line with the buff, spell still wont be worth it, but it would be in line with all the other buffs/debuffs.)

The best rewards are really the spells that give you the best resistances, not the spells that could have interesting/useful effects, but are either weak or have too many restrictions.

 

Taking control of towers around the HOTA will do nothing to effect it, other than possibly mildly inconvenience other kingdoms. 

[Alec 730]

So what can we do to fix Elevation?

[Iulianx 90]

 

I'm like 'that is the idea already'...

 

I think I am speaking in the name of the community when I say you should play the game. Things never happen according to your design especially in an unscripted sandbox enviroment.

You have your terrarium, you set your rules and look at the little ants get to work and do their things. If things don't go according to plan you change something. But how can you make the right choice for the game and its community when you don't even look at it?

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/100679-who-and-public-server-graphs/

This would help a lot Rolf, if possible.

[Alec 730]

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/100679-who-and-public-server-graphs/

This would help a lot Rolf, if possible.

 

This will be even bettah.

[Fireflyb 920]

Hi,

 

although we're working mainly on fixing bugs and stuff like bridges, more decorative items and preparing for the Xanadu release right now, I just want to acknowledge that I hear what you're saying about the Epic cluster.

 

A lot of the mechanics are supposed to work like you want: Rock-paper-scissors is already there but apparently not noticable enough. The battle camps and towers are of course supposed to be vital points for conquering and capturing land does have good effects for your kingdom. There is also the HOTA and the scenarios and missions that are ingame with rewards but apparently aren't incentives enough right now.

 

From the OP:  involves a huge emphasis on territory, expansion, and incorporates some type of campaign format for warfare

 

I'm like 'that is the idea already'... Scenarios are the campaigns. You're supposed to want to expand and keep your territory and one of the reasons for this is that it should be easier to do missions if you hold more territory. 

 

Apparently that's not the case, at least not the perceived situation. 

 

also the entire map would be covered with chokepoints/capturable areas

 

That's the idea behind towers and battle camps. The more territory you have the easier you should have to get the resources you want.

 

However, they don't provide resources themselves. The HOTA does though, but apparently that is conquered all the time by one side. Taking control of the towers and the battle camps surrounding the HOTA would make it easier to gain those resources. 

 

Anyways, we should be able to have a serious discussion about all this in a while and hopefully some improvements before the summer.

 

What I'm saying is that we have quite a lot of disparate functionality to play around with that we can make compact and shine. Keep posting suggestions for how to make them play together nicely here.

 

I don't think Elevation is functioning the way that you intend it to:

1. People don't really go out and raid each other for land (at all) and raiding deeds is pretty rare from what I've seen.

2. Battlecamps and tower capping are more things for people to do to prevent rank decay or because there's no actual fights to be had with other kingdoms.

3. HotA actually did pretty well for a while, and there's been some massive fights for a lot of kingdoms over time; I think player/kingdom attitudes have more to do with its derpiness right now than game mechanics, but idk.

4. The Elevation map is setup like this: HotS in the south, JK in the NE, MR in the NW, KoS(?) in the SW, and HotA territory in the middle; all the kingdoms pretty much have what they need to create anything they could ever want, so there is no reason to actually invade another kingdom's territory, because there's not really any point.

Those are just some general observations, Epic Gurus feel free to correct me (I think those are the common consensuses and are accurate afaik.)

Thanks for response though, Rolf, it means a lot to us to see you post in threads like these; lets us know you're aware of the issues, etc.!

Edited May 5, 2014 by Fireflyb

[Karellean 132]

Yup, cheers for acknowledgement the post Rolf... Genuinely does mean a lot.

 

 

Scenarios as they presently stand are not sufficent enough objectives for the average PvP gamer.

 

I think most of us for a PvP objective chasing something more complex, grander and something that cannot be completed by an individual, but would take an entire faction months to complete. These promote teamwork, leadership and co-operation of many. Scenarios can take just hours, Hota, the blink of an eye

 

The Completion of that Grand Objective should signify a "win" for that faction, an end point, an achievement that can be noted, reflected upon, and discussed as time move on.

 

Ideally accompying the grand objective with a map reset, makes the next Great objective/campaign have that very same "fresh start" feel to it that everyone loves. 

Allows players to change sides/factions periodically, Gives new players a chance to jump in...

 

------------------

 

On Chokepoints - Yup critical, to allow factions to establish "homelands", think Elevation was pretty reasonable for that.... probably could tighten it up, with more points by having smaller valleys...We have a few too many large expanses.

 

The current Map is just hollowed out, dug up, chopped down, and crater bombed to death over 2 years.... that we now need to replace it with a new one to get the fresh feel, to go with any PvP objective tweaks and get the PvP society back on track.

 

--------------

 

No problem waiting for Xanadu to finish up from me...  Get one big thing done at a time...

 

Cheers,

 

"Kare"

Edited May 7, 2014 by Karellean

[Arkhir 280]

A lot of the mechanics are supposed to work like you want: Rock-paper-scissors is already there but apparently not noticable enough.

Yup. Not noticable enough, Chaos is still Chaos (drake and stuff I guess, please correct me if I'm wrong) and Epic is plate.

 

Chain, studded, leather, some weapons - useless in combat, disadvantages outweight advantages heavily. Same thing with the whole spells thingy. Nice to see some response from you, Rolf.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Arkhir

[amberain80 290]

So what can we do to fix Elevation?

I don't think the point is to fix elevation. And I doubt you meant anything by it, but that comment is exactly one of the biggest problems, the home servers act like they are not part of this pvp CLUSTER. I think either

Remove CR nerf from home servers, or make it all one big map by removing the home servers all together. The one suggestion i thought would work was reversing the CR nerf, like give noobs a small buff instead of giving older players a debuff. And make it only last like 6 months. Its enough time to learn, and skill up. And then after that, cr buff is removed and everything is fair. It is a PVP cluster, not a place for freedomers to come grind skills faster and lock themselves indoors.

[Rathgar 959]

I don't think the point is to fix elevation. And I doubt you meant anything by it, but that comment is exactly one of the biggest problems, the home servers act like they are not part of this pvp CLUSTER. I think either

Remove CR nerf from home servers, or make it all one big map by removing the home servers all together. The one suggestion i thought would work was reversing the CR nerf, like give noobs a small buff instead of giving older players a debuff. And make it only last like 6 months. Its enough time to learn, and skill up. And then after that, cr buff is removed and everything is fair. It is a PVP cluster, not a place for freedomers to come grind skills faster and lock themselves indoors.

 

 

Its a sandbox game, do you get it? Do you see where you are mistaken ?

[Kagrenac 812]

Its a sandbox game, do you get it? Do you see where you are mistaken ?

I think the point is that you should not be rewarded for living on a home server over elevation. (by game mechanics)