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Hello! 👋 I'm building a market now. And I have some questions about permissions. I'm interesting how to arrange the permishins correctly? Animals will be sold on the market, as well as merchants will be located. Materials will also be sold in bulks (at pens with locks, as I know). If I build a small house with a gate for the horse, and the merchant will have the key to that gate. Will the buyer be able to take the horse out of the house (not of the pen made of fence)? I mean, do the house permitions matter to lead horses? Or only pens made of fences recommended? I am also interested in general recommendations about permishions on the markets. Thanks!🌞

EDIT: Many of the bugs in this thread are still not fixed after all these years since the introduction of the new permission system. I will post the confirmed-as-still-broken bugs immediately below. I will leave the old post as part of this thread, and will adjust the bugs reported in it by crossing out things that are fixed, changing text to red for things that are confirmed as still broken, and leaving as black text things that we are unsure of. Bugs confirmed to still exist since this thread was originally made: Leading on enemy deeds Problem: We cannot lead any untamed horses on enemy deeds, even as unlawful or without Templars, which means we can not raid horses to use for PvP or raiding homeservers How it used to work: You could lead horses on enemy deeds at any time, even if the templar was alive and the permission was not allowed, because why would you abide by an enemy's laws? A solution: Either have enemy deed laws not apply to players not of their kingdom, or require a templar to be alive to enforce the laws. In the past laws didn't take effect unless a templar was alive, which meant you could kill a deeds Templars to break laws as any kingdom, but this is no longer the case, making raiding often either much more difficult or even impossible in certain situations if you are same kingdom Note: Horses can currently be lead by using a bind to do the action, but unless you have LEAD bound to a key, there is no way to lead horses, and lead does not appear in the right-click menu. Unable to take from bsbs in houses Problem: Bsbs/fsbs in houses often will not let you take from them (even without a lock), as when you try to drag their contents to your inventory it responds "You must use steal to do that.", but there is no way to use steal on the contents of a bsb. How it used to work: You would be able to take from bsbs inside houses A solution: Allow taking from bsbs inside houses, and if the house owner wants permission control or security over their bsb, they should attach a lock, rather than having 100% secure moonmetal/drake/etc storage by default/bug. Unable to steal items from houses you lockpick into Problem: You cannot use steal inside of houses you lockpick into, even off deed. Steal is only possible if at least one of the house's walls are destroyed, so that the permissions do not take effect. Right now on PVP you get the message "Stealing is punishable by the death penalty in these lands and you decide not to." even if you are on unlawful. How it used to work: You could steal from inside of undamaged houses by right clicking and using the steal option. A solution: Allow stealing from inside of houses on PVP by going unlawful. Non-tame/non-branded horses not moving after relogging Problem: When you crash or have to relog and you are on a non-tamed/non-branded mount while in combat you can't move unless you dismount the horse. How it used to work: Never happened prior to the perm system change. When relogging on a horse it worked as usual. A solution: Allow any ridden mount to move after relogging. This is most likely a bug with the permissions system seeing you don't personally "own" that mount. Note: This often also happens if you get relogged by the game when the embark bug happens. If it happens from the embark bug, disembarking the horse will also bug you and cause you to relog, and then the next time you embark on the horse it will be unable to move. If the embark bug happens to you while on an enemy deed, it will make you momentarily leave the world, and when it reconnects you, you end up outside the enemy deed. This could easily be abused in PVP by repeatedly embarking and disembarking your horse until the embark bug happens, to get teleported outside the enemy deed, and escape your attackers. Can't drag same-kingdom locked boats Problem: You cannot drag locked boats, even if they aren't moored. How it used to work: You could drag same kingdom locked boats unless they were moored. A solution: If a boat isn't moored and doesn't have a captain, we should be able to drag it. If you want to prevent a boat from being dragged, you should have to moor it. Receive hunted status for attempting actions in lawful Problem: Now receive hunted status for attempting actions you aren't allowed to do, even though it prevents you from actually doing the action, and even though you are in lawful mode. How it used to work: If you were in lawful mode it would prevent you from doing things you weren't allowed to, and it would not penalize you since it prevented you from doing the action. A solution: Do not penalize/set players hunted for actions they attempt while in lawful mode. Note: An example of something that causes this is using a lead bind on a deed that disallows leading, while in Lawful. It will fail to lead the horse, but you will become hunted anyways, despite being in Lawful. Old post below: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever since the new permission system was added, many things that were normally possible on the PvP cluster Epic became impossible. Many of these problems seem to be unintended bugs, and numerous complaints have been raised about them, but for the most part they have still not been fixed. This thread is for compiling a list of all of the permissions issues that epic has experienced since the addition of the new permission system, and ways that game mechanics have changed for the worse or become impossible under the new system as opposed to the old. As you post your discovered permissions bugs and complaints, I will add them to this post. Format your replies like Problem: How it used to work: A solution: Before you get into reading these, here are the most important issues that would clear up a lot of these problems: LAWS SHOULD NOT BE UPHELD UNLESS THERE IS A LIVING TEMPLAR TO ENFORCE THEM. PERMISSIONS SHOULD NOT BE UPHELD UNLESS THERE IS A LOCK ATTACHED. THE OPTION TO BREAK THE LAW MUST BE AVAILABLE. New permission system issues: Laws are upheld without live templars Problem: Deed laws are enforced even if the deed hired no templars, or even if all of the templars are dead. This has been very abusable by unjustly making actions impossible, and has allowed enemies to use deeds on homeservers in order to prevent their boats from being picked by defenders there. How it used to work: Living templars were required for deed laws to be enforced, and to break the law you had to kill templars before doing illegal actions, or go unlawful and break the law, thus putting you on KOS. If the deed had no templars, then you could do whatever you wanted. A Solution: Make deed laws take no effect on pvp servers unless there is a living templar. Allow players the option to break the laws, with the consequence that the templars will attack them and KOS them on that deed. Leading on enemy deeds Problem: We cannot lead any untamed horses on enemy deeds, even as unlawful or without Templars, which means we can not raid horses to use for PvP or raiding homeservers How it used to work: You could lead horses on enemy deeds at any time, even if the templar was alive and the permission was not allowed, because why would you abide by an enemy's laws? A solution: Either have enemy deed laws not apply to players not of their kingdom, or require a templar to be alive to enforce the laws. In the past laws didn't take effect unless a templar was alive, which meant you could kill a deeds Templars to break laws as any kingdom, but this is no longer the case, making raiding often either much more difficult or even impossible in certain situations if you are same kingdom Note: Horses can currently be lead by using a bind to do the action, but unless you have LEAD bound to a key, there is no way to lead horses, and lead does not appear in the right-click menu. Unlocked unowned vehicles can't be boarded on deeds Problem: You cannot embark on an unlocked vehicle on a deed if it doesn't have you in its permissions, even if its unlocked, you are unlawful and the deed has no templar How it used to work: Unlocked vehicles were always usable by anyone, because a lock should be required to enforce their permissions. This allowed for picking and taking vehicles, which now became impossible. A solution: Don't enforce vehicle permissions unless it has a lock, and dont enforce deed permissions unless it has a live templar. Can't remove locks Problem: If you are not the owner of something (chest, cart, boat, bsb, etc), you cannot remove the lock with the key anymore. The detail of an object having an imaginary owner preventing you from removing a lock with the key is immersion breaking, especially when you can already access it's contents by opening it while holding the key. You are also prevented from sailing any boat you find the key to, you may only access the hold. How it used to work: If you found the keys to something you could use them to remove the lock without needing to pick it. People often held onto high ql keys they found and over time would figure out what they went to. You could also board and sail ships as long as you held the key. A solution: Enable removing locks from objects by using the key on PvP servers Unable to take from bsbs in houses Problem: Bsbs/fsbs in houses often will not let you take from them (even without a lock), as when you try to drag their contents to your inventory it responds "You must use steal to do that.", but there is no way to use steal on the contents of a bsb. How it used to work: You would be able to take from bsbs inside houses A solution: Allow taking from bsbs inside houses, and if the house owner wants permission control or security over their bsb, they should attach a lock, rather than having 100% secure moonmetal/drake/etc storage by default/bug. Unable to steal items from houses you lockpick into Problem: You cannot use steal inside of houses you lockpick into, even off deed. Steal is only possible if at least one of the house's walls are destroyed, so that the permissions do not take effect. Right now on PVP you get the message "Stealing is punishable by the death penalty in these lands and you decide not to." even if you are on unlawful. How it used to work: You could steal from inside of undamaged houses by right clicking and using the steal option. A solution: Allow stealing from inside of houses on PVP by going unlawful. Can't target same kingdom templars Problem: You can't target same kingdom templars in order to kill them and break laws. You first have to be KOS'ed somehow in order to autoretaliate to kill them, during which it won't let you change targets to a different templar, it only lets you kill the one that attacked you first, and then the next one to hit you after its dead you then autoretaliate to, etc. Not even the mayor can target his own deed's templars. How it used to work: You could go unlawful in order to target and kill same kingdom templars, in order to break same kingdom deed laws. A solution: You should be able to target same kingdom templars by going unlawful. Can't lockpick same kingdom doors Problem: You cannot lockpick doors of houses owned by a player in the same kingdom as you on elevation. How it used to work: You could lockpick any door or gate by going unlawful. A solution: Allow lockpicking same kingdom doors/gates by going unlawful. Note: Fixed Non-tame/non-branded horses not moving after relogging Problem: When you crash or have to relog and you are on a non-tamed/non-branded mount while in combat you can't move unless you dismount the horse. How it used to work: Never happened prior to the perm system change. When relogging on a horse it worked as usual. A solution: Allow any ridden mount to move after relogging. This is most likely a bug with the permissions system seeing you don't personally "own" that mount. Note: This often also happens if you get relogged by the game when the embark bug happens. If it happens from the embark bug, disembarking the horse will also bug you and cause you to relog, and then the next time you embark on the horse it will be unable to move. If the embark bug happens to you while on an enemy deed, it will make you momentarily leave the world, and when it reconnects you, you end up outside the enemy deed. This could easily be abused in PVP by repeatedly embarking and disembarking your horse until the embark bug happens, to get teleported outside the enemy deed, and escape your attackers. Can't drag same-kingdom locked boats Problem: You cannot drag locked boats, even if they aren't moored. How it used to work: You could drag same kingdom locked boats unless they were moored. A solution: If a boat isn't moored and doesn't have a captain, we should be able to drag it. If you want to prevent a boat from being dragged, you should have to moor it. Alliance/Citizen permissions on vehicles don't work off deed Problem: Added alliance Command, Passenger, Open, and Drag permissions to a sailboat. Nobody in my alliance was able to use it. Had to add them individually by name. The boat was off-deed at the time and later was able to allow Alliance/Citizens to board when the boat was on a deeded tile. How it used to work: Alliance/Citizen permissions applied to members of your alliance, allowing them to use your vehicles whether they were on deed at the time or not. A solution: Allow the Alliance/Citizen allow permissions to work off deed. We need to be able to board on our allies' boats for PvP without having to stop before a fight and manually add each individual person, wasting lots of time. Cannot load unowned planted objects Problem: Cannot load planted objects you do not own, even if you are enemy. How it used to work: You could take planted objects by loading them anytime if you were enemy, or when the laws allowed you/went unlawful as same kingdom. A solution: Allow loading of planted objects if enemy, or subject to the laws/lawfulness if same kingdom. Receive hunted status for attempting actions in lawful Problem: Now receive hunted status for attempting actions you aren't allowed to do, even though it prevents you from actually doing the action, and even though you are in lawful mode. How it used to work: If you were in lawful mode it would prevent you from doing things you weren't allowed to, and it would not penalize you since it prevented you from doing the action. A solution: Do not penalize/set players hunted for actions they attempt while in lawful mode. Alliance/Citizens of "" deed permissions don't work right on buildings Problem: If you have alliance/citizen permission to access a building, then log off until you leave the world and log back into that building, it ejects you from the building as if you don't have permission to it, and on a PvP server that means falling out of your longhouses, down off of your dirtwalls, to splat on the ground and die hundreds of slope below your deed. How it used to work: You were not ejected from buildings if you had permission on them. A solution: Do not eject players from buildings upon logging in if they have Alliance/Village enter permission. Old permissions issues (not from the new permission system) that don't belong on a PvP server: Can't sacrifice on enemy deeds (or friendly ones where you're KOS'ed) Problem: You cannot sacrifice anything (items or animals) on an enemy deed. There isn't really a reason we shouldn't be able to do this unless the templars are disallowing it. A solution: Allow sacrificing on enemy deeds as long as the templars are dead.

In the past you could easily set your boats and carts for your kingdommates to use by just checking the friends permission, because most people had kingdommates added. This made it easy to have boats available for kingdom access in the case that they're needed for defense or raiding, but now to have boats like that, you need to think up the names of each and every single person in your kingdom, type each of their individual names in manually, and give each and every one of them permissions on the boat. These permissions often wipe when crossing servers on the epic cluster (a common occurrance). Often you forget some names to put on the boat, and when the time comes to get on the boat for pvp, people go "I can't get on, I need permissions!". This is really annoying when you're on a sailboat with kingdommates crossing servers on the epic cluster, and now you're on another server and nobody has access on the boat anymore. Then you have to add each and every person to the boat's permissions by name again. This would be much easier to do if there were a permission option for Kingdom, so that you could check permissions in the kingdom line to give those permissions to all members of your kingdom, rather than having to type in a name and check boxes for each individual character. The kingdom permission option already exists for houses, please add it for boats and carts as well.

Three things every bug report should include: # What happened # What you expected to happen # Steps to reproduce Additional notes: # If we cannot reproduce a bug it will take a LOT longer to fix # Too much info is better then too little info # All bug reports get read and checked out. We're not ignoring any bugreport. Some things just take a lot of time to fix, are of lower priority, or depend on the time of volunteer staff. # Don't be afraid to bump old reports if they are still valid What happened? Decided to test War Permissions on Serenity - Epic Cluster, I did this by catapulting building of other deed until my deed finally had over 50 reputation.... Then.... the Victim Deed had just had enough bullying and declared War. Now I mind you Kriswald was the one doing the catapulting but it said Trundle was the despicable one.... betraying kriswald as he declared war...(with a trip to token) I did not seem to be able to declare war by clicking on the walls of the deed (like i expected and thought it had been announced... nor from clicking on the mayor(kriswald) or anything in the menus).( i think that msg should be changed ) anywho.... this was one of the most epic battles in all of serenity history.... KrisWald catapulted throughout the entire night... they were so determined that in the morning they renamed themselves from something long and unmemorable... to "Camp Focus" ..... Trundle finally gave in and had had enough...He pleaded for a Truce. (was quite unsure how to get the option to Truce) Finally Kriswald managed to break to the token and see the option to Offer peace... clicked.... nothing.... hmmmm.... Trundle then went to Kriswald's being dragged beaten behind the wagon all the way there.... and again clicked offer peace at token and again... nothing happened... no message in events or anything else... I assume this part was because of the name change. Shortly After, the the chaos of the war made the world unstable, there was great shaking as volcanoes erupted and tides rose and the server shut down unable to sustain itself. Upon restarting Trundle and Kriswald tried to make amends again to no Avail. Put in Ticket. Waited all day, gave up, disbanded deed instead. Things that went wrong: 1. Once at War Catapulting on Deed Building still gave rep hits and turned KrisWald hunted (Even though trundles deed declared the War (not that this should matter)) The building being catapulted was owned by someone who converted to MR.... however it was still 100% on deed and even if they are MR now (was jk when leaving), it is still an enemy building... but I would think being on enemy deed would trump all of that. 2. Once at War, ONLY trundle received the enemy debuff.... KrisWald was unaffected by it. I tried having Kriswald move around the deeds, had trundle leave and enter local even relogged... even after server restart only trundle was affected by the enemy debuff of suffering skillgains.... I was wondering if KrisWald was just so immensely powerful that trundle was unable to cause a problem? Perhaps Trundle's FS needs to be higher to make KrisWald Shake in his boots? I dunno if this was intended but it felt like a bug of some sort. 3. War was unable to be stopped once Started (probably because of name change but maybe something else? Ways to reproduce.... Make 2 deeds... put them at war.... change name of one.. try to offer peace.... I cant test this as it requires spending quite a bit of silver. I'm pretty sure you would get the same results. Most people don't war... or know how to war.... or think it is impossible to war... So I assume its an archaic system that just needs a little TLC here and there. If i think of more info ill try to update. Thanks!

I'd like to be able to assign permissions roles that have an expiration. Great for unique hunts, Impalongs, visiting dignitaries, or whatever. So many permissions that go wrong are ones that get set for some quick job, then we forget to clear them out later. Timer options of days, hours and minutes, or "until I logout", though the logout one may be more difficult to manage code wise.

Seem that a bug could occur that block other people from take item put on a planted container in a location (deed or house) where they have permissions. (that affect mayor too) There is a simple workaround to fix it yourself a permission issue with container. Issue: Containers doesn't allow other people to take from it (ondeed or in house), also with the correct permissions set. Workaround: Put a padlock to it and set the permission for each containers. I hope this workaround could help you. Regards, Gaea (Game Master)

At the moment Friends, villagers and alliance members can loot your corpse and all your valuables. This needs to be addressed now when the new permission system is put in. I want to be able to choose who can loot my corpse.

With the new changes to the permission system please add permission to land on deed. There should be a warning given if the player attempts to fly into a deed where they are not wanted and if they continue to descend they will be blocked from going lower towards the ground and could be thrown outside of the deed's air space. This should be implemented BEFORE dragon riders, flying carpets and jet packs appear in the game.

Bridges need permissions management. I should be able to unload a crate on a finished bridge off-deed and someone should be able to take items from it. Please make this happen. It works with normal tiles off-deed so I don't see why a bridge would be different.

Given the recent events I was wondering if it would be possible to give a writ or mine door permission option for all forges and ovens? The reason is simple: A lot of people store items inside their forges, for example frying pans, armour they are imping, weapons, magical chests, and so forth. These items can be taken if anyone enters the house, say, by bashing a wall down. There is no way to secure these items in any other way except by physically moving them to a chest (which you cannot do if said items are too hot to fit into the container). If the forge has a writ/mine door permission, it would be peace of mind to log out knowing the stuff inside it is safe. Secondly, this will give us an option to use the forge or oven as a safe inside our houses. We can build forges and store valuables inside it locked away, not having to worry that it will be gone when we log in. Thirdly, inside mines, where we mine together in teams but sometimes with other people there too, it would be great to only allow people mining with you, to access your forges. The writ/permission should include the permission to load the forge as well, or alternatively, no forge should be able to be loaded while there is anything inside it. EDIT: Please look at cart and wagon permissions also. I would like to specify who I want to give access to my cart by name, not a blanket "all friends" or "all allies". I want to tick a specific name. This can be taken a step further then: Add a box for who you want to give permission to be able to drag or push or pull your cart/wagon. Then we can use locked carts and wagons inside our houses as storage for valuables, and as long as we did not give someone permission to drag/push/pull it , it will be safe inside the house, without the need of animals hitched to it (which is really not viable unless you drop grass for them all the time, or have a doughnut with enchanted grass).

Perhaps we can add generic permissions to any containers/doors inside the perimeter of a home. So that things like below can happen. Bedrooms for multiple residents in a home. Private chests within a home. Housing a noob who needs a friend to protect them. etc some modifications and ideas to go with this or replace this keys now behave as writs keys now behave as writs when the matching locks are inside a structure doors within homes now have permissions similar to writs containers now have permissions like boats/carts etc

I got this idea while reading this thread: />http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/67257-some-things-on-freedom-that-must-change-imho-beginner-related/ The idea is basically that in addition to the structure itself a writ could control an attached yard as well. It's basically a mechanic similar to the enclosure rule, just that it is enforced automatically by the game. That would give free players, new players and other hermit types actual security instead of the fake security of the enclosure rule, without reducing the need for premium or deeds. It would work by having a "plan yard" option next to the "plan building" that gives sufficient room of freedom. It could be limited by saying the yard can't be larger then twice(?) the building, otherwise you can't finish the plan. It could also be extended for deed owners to be able to plan yards on their deeds without any buildings to give to a citizen. This would both improve the Mayor ability to restrict the citizen and give the citizen more freedom of action in their area. So what do you think?