adolphus

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Posts posted by adolphus

  1. Posted

    6 hours ago, Ekcin said:

    If someone would demand rite one done now, rite 2 in a week, and rite 3 in 14 days, that would indeed be overblown. After all, there would not be any need to follow suit, and I would not see the point. Otherwise, other players SB gain is not your business. And waiting 2 or 3, even 5 days until all benediction aspirants could gather is normal on SFI too.

     

    Edit: I am aware that someone who had not swapped, and done a rite in a week, could do one now, swap, do the other, and the next in 7 days. But that means there was no uninterrupted swapping, so what?

    this is assuming that the first rite is whatever the person affected is already worshipping. If the person is not in the religion for the first rite, they would have to immediately swap to receive the SB gain. they could still get the SB from the second rite within the seven day period but they will not receive the third if it is cast within the first week.

  3. Posted · Edited by adolphus

    47 minutes ago, Madnath said:

     

    Apparently they're afraid of being banned from public slays is a part? But from what I understand a GM wouldn't intervene in a public slay "banned" list since it's public. And if they're afriad of what you're suggesting, doesn't that kinda fall under bullying?

    It's not just being banned from public slays, that's but one of the few things. It's just being caught as the perpetrator of a controversy where you are unsure who are going to be offended in your friendlist since nobody actively goes around to check who is a switcher and who isn't, and then the further bullying from trade markets and whatnot.

     

    I am, after all, just a spectator that saw the fiasco during the impalong, and decided that this mechanic should not stay because of such conflicts. I created a new account just specifically to make this topic/post because I saw the problem. I wish to withhold my identity so that nobody can direct the offense from my disagreement with their aggressively strong opinions regarding the switching (as observed through the thread) back to me.

    Edit: rephrased statement to clarify weightage of "bullying"

  4. Posted

    2 hours ago, Jindala said:

    The only group that factually has an "only negative effect" from scheduling rites instead of casting them faster should (?) be single character players that chose to play a priest. I assume if you have at least one alt, then you have a crafter - and with that you can switch yourself. And my impression is, that there might be very few such single-character-priests? I might be totally wrong here, though. If this is correct, however, then most of us can benefit from swapping.

    While theoretically correct, it is in practice wrong that the only group that is negatively affected are the priests as there are others who do not wish to play around a min-max mechanic of having to switch religions, which in itself is a mechanic that is likely unintended to be in the game, but devs probably tried to allow for such a mechanic to remain through a light penalty of 7 days cooldown for switching. However, given how the cooldown becomes the dictator as to when rites are "allowed" to be cast and has caused dissension within the community, I am suggesting that it would be better off just heavily penalising the exploit altogether (3-6 months cooldown) so that while people are still allowed to switch faiths should they decide down the road that it is needed, the benefits of religion swapping is limited further such that remaining in a said religion and the benefits that come along with that (e.g., vyn's skill bonus) makes any sense whatsoever.

     

    1 hour ago, Locath said:

    I don't know if i'm reading this right. Please correct me:

     

    "i am of different faith every few weeks, i contribute zero to charging the Rite since i don't even bother getting to 10 faith. You, however,  cannot swap faith to reap the same benefits, or you won't be able to cast the ritual.

    You Will however accommodate me because undisclosed number of people like me will be upset.

    All of YOU better do the work to charge all deity rituals and wait for it to be convenient for ME to cast it".

     

    Please say this isn't what the argument is about?

     

    Inb4 "but my alts helped charging it" - those alts will get the benefit of the rite cast.

     

    To be fair to those few that might be using their varying number of alts to charge rites of the different religion (benefit of doubt) where they have alts of each religion charging copious amounts that they deserve a say (I actually don't believe that there are such people, but wurm is filled with all sorts), it might be the case where they legitimately have "rights" to demand for when rites are casted...

    But let's be real, it's a group effort kind of thing, there are also people who are saccing their own stuffs from time to time having contributed and nobody knows who's contributed how much. Nobody can effectively say that they contributed more than another and to go to those levels would just be another mess that is unnecessary. Thus I feel that to settle it once and for all, just removing benefits from switching would simply end any switcher's say in the matter of rites, leaving it down to the priests who are the only ones that 1) truly have a say in the matter; and 2) benefit people of said religions directly. Nobody will be gaining more advantage from the mechanic of switching, which was intended only for erroneous decisions or a change of heart in the first place.

     

    3 hours ago, Ekcin said:

    "If you shift to one faith swap per month, the faith swappers will even more try to influence toward synchronization with their then lesser chance of SB, and the jealous ones will make noise no less, only maybe less frequently - even that not guaranteed. No mechanics change will heal that. Only when the opponents get to their senses and mutually develop more generosity and tolerance the situation will improve."

    Thus my suggestion involves a switch cooldown of 3-6 months, where it is so long that there is nothing they can do to optimise their SB gain other than to consider switching once every few months to obtain that little bonus, which if they were to change out of vyn's skill bonus might hurt them in the long run compared to gaining 5 hours of sleep bonus. There will be no more need to optimise the timings of rite casts, rites can be cast whenever as long as sufficient people are available (maybe a short cooldown from when it reaches 100% to allow for others to join in the rite cast, say 2 hours) and and possibly a gauge notification when the favour has been raised to 90/95% globally for people to be aware that a rite may be cast soon so that they can finish their sleep bonuses. Essentially the goal is to completely remove whatever bonus that can be exploited from switching where it returns back to being a mechanic that it was intended for - people making mistakes choosing their religions and people deciding that they want to change to another religion after much consideration.

  5. Posted · Edited by adolphus

    1 hour ago, Sinnjinn said:

    ok, just now while taking a shower (isn't that where all good ideas are generated?) I might have come up with a good long-term solution.

     

    First, lets agree that the problem isn't really that I want to spread the casts out to maximize sleep bonus, and Bores wants to cast it right away to maximize sleep bonus....the problem is that all the damn rites are ready at the same time.  Right?  I mean if they were spaced out naturally everybody would get what they want, and there would be no squabbles.

     

    So lets change it

     

    Here is my suggestion.  Vyn, being the most popular god probably has their Rite charge faster then the others.  So let them go ahead and cast ASAP.  (but please still post a schedule for 24 to 48 hours out so people can join and/or burn any existing SB).  This will hopefully allow the Vyn Rite to naturally pull away from the Mag and Fo Rite.  Lib isn't really an issue, their Rite charges way behind anyway.  Without the Vyn Rite to worry about, scheduling the Mag and Fo Rites won't be much of an issue I think.  The idea here is that by the 3rd hopefully 4th Rite from now, the Vyn rite will BE a week or more ahead of everything else.  Yes, those of us who swap faiths will miss out on some opportunities for free sleep bonus, but it's a small price to pay if we can fix it long-term.  I'm leery to 'hold' the Mag and Fo Rites for any length of time to accelerate the process, but we can certainly be 'lax' in our casting of them.   

     

    Once we have successfully untangled the Vyn Rite from the others, we can re-visit how tangled the Mag and Fo rites are and come up with a similar plan, if necessary.

    I don't think it is a viable situation seeing as it was just a matter of religion switchers missing out 5 hours of sleep bonus for the benefit of those who are participating at the event to have that bonus during the event. If they were willing to compromise on that to begin with, this wouldn't have been an issue. Seeing as they are unwilling to compromise and raise a ruckus, then something needs to be done to the mechanic to prevent it from happening instead. You are still only suggesting a temporary solution, where it is still somewhat trying to time rites for the benefit of religion switchers while making sure that those that play the game without leveraging on this mechanic do not have anything to complain. Eventually, there will come another time of this happening, and there will be another ruckus happening between switchers and non-switchers.

    While I understand that my suggestion causes those who are leveraging on this mechanic to no longer get more sleep powder than the game already gives, and the game is particularly stingy with how it is obtained, it removes a benefit that was provided to people who wanted to leverage off a unfair mechanic that could not part with one instance of that benefit for the sake of others who could. It was one instance of 5-hour sleep bonus compared to the many that you are already getting by switching. If anything, this suggestion serves to fix a mechanic to operate properly so that nobody can benefit from it anymore, so all are placed on an equal playing ground.

     

    Essentially the short story is this, you weren't happy with the amount of candy you were getting from daddy game mechanic and refused to let your siblings get any if you didn't get it once, even though you already have been given much more than all your other siblings. As punishment, you shall only get the candy when everyone else gets it. Seems to you like a punishment, but in actual fact is just what it was supposed to be.

    Edit: Clarification, and suggestion scenario illustration

    I did not mean for the last paragraph to sound condescending, although no matter how I read it it the "daddy" part of it sounds like a mockery, but I wanted to paint a picture where the person who was getting an unfair advantage is being forced to be on the same playing field as the rest.

    Let me illustrate what could happen from say a 3 month cooldown from religion change - People would mostly be worshipping vyn for the skill bonus, and would eventually change to another religion should they feel that their bonuses are better, or stick with vyn given her rate of rites. When rites are available, there wouldn't be much need of consideration, just a heads up 48 hours before and collating of casters prior to the cast. Rites can overlap without fear that there is a group of people that need to be considered with precise allocation and there wouldn't be detriments from overlapping rites as followers/priests from those groups can claim their own rite's SB within 24 hours. When an event such as impalong comes by, say Mag has just performed a rite 2 days before, when Vyn's rite is available, there are priests available to perform it and cast it for the are already onsite, and it would just be a celebration for the rite being available rather than a conflict that ensues where the two groups of switchers and non-switchers clash to debate on when the rite should be held. Say Fo's rites are ready shortly after, no hesitation, rush to cast, so that everyone at the impalong gets the benefit. You may argue about those that are offline or may not be participating in the impalong not being aware of the likelihood of a rite happening - organisers can give a heads up that based on the saccs and actions done during the impalong, there could be rites that might ensue from the impalong, and for people to keep that in mind so that they can be ready to burn their sleep bonuses and claim or have to miss out on their 5 hour sleep bonus this one time that the event is going on (impalongs aren't common after all). There is no need for too much planning how the timings and spacings between rites need to be calculated, rather just planning for the group of casters to be available and present and met up at a location for the cast to happen. It simplifies the problem and mitigates the argument by just simply making the game the way it was supposed to be played.

  7. Posted

    2 hours ago, Ecrir said:

    Why not just focus on putting restrictions on when you can benefit from the Rite spell? Like, make it so you need to have been following a certain religion for X amount of time before you can benefit from said spell? That way it's pretty simple and straightforward without potentially impacting other things.


    This is just adding an additional step to the penalties of when you switch religions, aka increasing the time penalty. There is almost no difference between increasing swap cooldowns from 7 days to 14 days VS keeping cooldowns at 7 days and implementing a 7 day requirement before receiving bonus from rite (I assume you are considering the rite).

  8. Posted

    22 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

    "Further on I found it shocking how that throwaway forum char Adolphus smeared Baeowuf, a dev just stating what is game mechanics and what not."

     

    Please enlighten me on what I did to smear baeowuf? All I did was to put in the chat logs of the the event that happened where a commotion arose regarding the rite issue. I did nothing more than that. I have nothing against baeowuf nor did I state my opinions on what he said.

  9. Posted

    44 minutes ago, Sinnjinn said:

     

    This is not accurate.  Nobody 'asked' Annuile what she wanted.  People started talking about casting it, she stated she would prefer it to not be cast at the impalong.  

    Let me rephrase. Her stating her preference would essentially be the call for others to honor, as she is the host of the impalong. With respect to her, the people present would honor her wishes to not cast the rite. If she had requested for the rite to be cast, it would lead to a different outcome. While she did try to make it as "selfish" of a request, it inevitably became the call regardless.

  10. Posted

    Also, for the freedom chat that happened as well.

    Quote

    [23:57:52] <Vynbatterytwo> Oh Vyn Rite is ready =D
    [23:58:34] <Vynbatterytwo> I'll cast it in a couple of hours to benefit the Impalong impers
    [23:59:20] <Wylson> Greetings, there's an impalong at Valormoore!  Why are not here?!  We need Carpentry items to imp!  Come all!
    [23:59:30] <Onesterror> Could wait a couple days for those that just found out
    [00:00:04] <Vynbatterytwo> Or i could jsut cast it to benefit those that don'e switch faiths =]
    [00:00:10] <Vynbatterytwo> don't*
    [00:00:17] <Onesterror> nothing about switching
    [00:00:43] <Onesterror> for those who do not know it is ready and are not currently on
    [00:00:46] <Timowi> There is free coffee at impalong
    [00:00:56] <Vynbatterytwo> The best part of the game is I don't have to have permission to cast it =p
    [00:01:14] <Vynbatterytwo> But if peoiple would rather get it on their priests nows their chance before I cast it
    [00:01:17] <Onesterror> nope you do not but consideration does go along way
    [00:01:18] <Timowi> I don't like switchers nay more :(
    [00:06:32] <Baeowuf> It's worth noting that you alone did not contribute all the progress to make the Rite available
    [00:06:40] <Baeowuf> And it's usually frowned upon to snipe the Rites
    [00:06:59] <Baeowuf> So, sure, you don't need permission, but that doesn't mean the community has to like it :)
    [00:07:13] <Vynbatterytwo> Sniping rites may be frowned upon but i also find it frowned upon to try to Meta game them
    [00:07:31] <Timowi> so true
    [00:07:51] <Baeowuf> I don't see why that's a big deal? I don't do it, but it really doesn't seem to be that huge an inconvenience
    [00:08:05] <Baeowuf> I'm not even Vynora follower so it doesn't affect me one bit
    [00:08:31] <Baeowuf> But the mentality of "I CAN do it so I WILL without repercussions" is one I am not fond of
    [00:08:34] <Onesterror> I was just thinking of those who are not on and do not know that is going to be cast. That they may benefit from it as you will and not because they need to change faith
    [00:08:42] <Tpicant> so you as a ca are promoting exploiting mechanics in clearly not intented ways?
    [00:08:48] <Vynbatterytwo> There are no reprcussions of doing it though.
    [00:08:52] <Tpicant> you are ok with that?
    [00:09:02] <Baeowuf> That is not exploiting mechanics
    [00:09:05] <Tpicant> it is
    [00:09:09] <Baeowuf> It is not
    [00:09:14] <Baeowuf> It functions as intended
    [00:09:25] <Baeowuf> There is a cooldown of 7 days between switching faiths (barring Libila)
    [00:09:43] <Fizzleboom> Priests cannot switch
    [00:09:53] <Baeowuf> Never was this conversation about priests switching
    [00:09:59] <Timowi> If it's intended they should just remove the switch cooldown ...
    [00:10:06] <Fizzleboom> they are still affected by lack of SB then
    [00:10:46] <Vynbatterytwo> Kinda funny how i never had this issue on SFI which means its a Meta gaming aspect of several individuals who want to benefit themselves rather than those who actually don't swap faiths
    [00:10:50] <Mistirayne> well i have 7 hours to try to burn through before i pray again
    [00:11:42] <Fizzleboom> I would argue that some notice on forums is provided usually, to notify even non meta gamers
    [00:11:53] <Onesterror> yes
    [00:12:04] <Onesterror> so they can be ready for the right to be cast
    [00:12:06] <Vynbatterytwo> Theres never a notice on SFI forums about the casts
    [00:12:26] <Baeowuf> I find it funny that someone who contributed very little to the whole thinks they are entitled to cast whenever they want simply because they can 😕
    [00:12:27] <Timowi> After getting the consequences organizing a cast against the will of rite and dragon mafia I'm more on the side of snipers now ...
    [00:12:43] <Tpicant> there used to be, when it instant only for the people who were online at the time
    [00:12:48] <Tpicant> then they made the 24 hours thing
    [00:12:56] <Baeowuf> That is extremely inconsiderate I feel (And I'm speaking as an unaffected 3rd party) I am not Vynora or benefit from the Rite in question
    [00:13:57] <Baeowuf> You can do what you want, but faith swapping is NOT an exploit and never has been. Like I said, be prepared to have the community (the ones who actually contributed towards it) against you
    [00:14:18] <Timowi> not all of the community ...
    [00:14:32] <Baeowuf> I play the game differently than some people and try to be as helpful as I can be, and that type of behaviour contradicts that
    [00:14:37] <Baeowuf> And I can not be ok with that
    [00:15:10] <Annuile> I'm indifferent on the matter as a whole, both sides have valid points - But from a purely selfish perspective I would personally prefer if it happened separate from the impalong ._.
    [00:15:16] <Annuile> I don't want it to end on a dramatic note
    [00:15:37] <Baeowuf> I'm indifferent as well (mostly) but when someone mentions they want to do it purely out of spite
    [00:15:42] <Baeowuf> I can't be indifferent in that scenario
    [00:15:55] <Tpicant> many things were though to not to be exploits for years, until devs realized that they obviously were
    [00:16:02] <Baeowuf> That is not the Wurm way
    [00:16:07] <Homestead> yea. :(
    [00:16:27] <Homestead> Though.... I've been imping at the impalong and jsut burned a powder.  ....
    [00:16:30] <Baeowuf> That's a side effect of a game that is in constant development/change, Tpicant
    [00:16:50] <Tpicant> yeah but it refutes your argument
    [00:17:02] <Tpicant> its not seen as an exploit by the devs yet
    [00:17:05] <Tpicant> but it will
    [00:17:08] <Baeowuf> At this point in time it is NOT considered an exploit, so my arguement stands
    [00:17:14] <Homestead> I intentionally did not switch to Mag for the SB right before the impalong because if I'm grinding for 2 days straight, I want my Vyn skill bonus.
    [00:17:26] <Baeowuf> That may change, sure, but right now it IS NOT an exploit and claiming otherwise is false information
    [00:17:58] <Vynbatterytwo> Plus lets be honest a Rite isnt going to affect those that are complaining about it being cast anyway as they are getting all the fancy Sleep Powder from the Treasure Chests ;D
    [00:18:00] <Homestead> Which is why "I" think the impalong makes the exception. "Normally" I like the rites to be spread so I can switch.
    [00:18:14] <Homestead> But, to me, this made an exception.
    [00:18:35] <Homestead> But - I also know it will always be a debate.  Can't make everyone happy ever.
    [00:19:08] <Mistirayne> it does effect those vynbatterytwo, i don't faith swap, but a warning is nice so i can burn off what i have and be ready, i have 10 sleep powders in my inventory now i never use cuz i 'm good at
    [00:19:15] <Mistirayne> using my sb
    [00:19:37] <Mistirayne> but now i have 7 hours to burn thanks to the devs and the sb gods they gave us the extra on tuesday
    [00:19:38] <Vynbatterytwo> You have 24 hours and they implimented Coffee to help burn SB faster.
    [00:20:03] <Onesterror> yep and if you do not have it then you have to pay for it
    [00:20:16] <Mistirayne> don't use coffee i don't sit here for 24 hrs a day to play so i use what i can when i can
    [00:20:26] <Fizzleboom> secret ploy to sell more coffee
    [00:20:28] <Mistirayne> just a 24 hour notice would have been nice

     

    Posted this after my previous post as it took a while to dig up the content amidst my IRL things.

  11. Posted · Edited by adolphus

    I'm just going to do everyone a favour to post the chat log that went down on local chat that day when the announcement came through regarding the RoS being available.

     

    Quote

    [23:16:10] <Mechanicalcepac> Looks like RoS is up from all those seremons lol
    [23:16:24] <Sorceress> cast it
    [23:16:26] <Timowi> uhh nice
    [23:17:05] <Jindala> We are just having Mag rites, please wait a week :P
    [23:17:21] <Borstaskor> I wouldn't mind it casted 😛
    [23:17:34] <Mechanicalcepac> ^ same
    [23:17:53] <Borstaskor> As someone who doesn't do any switching for globals, I'd rather it start ticking right away to the next one
    [23:18:00] <Timowi> please not waiting a full week
    [23:18:15] <Borstaskor> but eh, one group always gotta suffer for the other group no matter what. I'd prefer it be the majority not suffering. I'd vote cast 😛
    [23:18:24] <Sorceress> cast it
    [23:18:40] <Borstaskor> If a very few handful of heads wants to fk over the rest of us
    [23:18:43] <Borstaskor> I'd be a bit sad
    [23:18:47] <Yiannis> I'd say the impalong makes an exception: The folks doing imping might appreciate it.
    [23:18:56] <Alakazam> jesus not this . again  we cast the mag right ASAP.  Can we wait 5 .ing days?
    [23:18:56] Ephedra next sermon: @36 Omson, Ephedra, Shipwrighttas, Ommag, Squiddles, Emmett, Shanx, Ibarra
    [23:19:26] <Borstaskor> I guess I'll be a bit sad then
    [23:19:55] <Yiannis> Normally I like the wait in between because I like to bounch.  But .... lotta people burning a lot of SB in one spot right now.
    [23:20:29] <Borstaskor> I wonder how often they'd get popped if they were popped asap every time
    [23:20:41] <Borstaskor> For the majority (rest of us) who doesn't do the swapping
    [23:20:46] Borstaskor shrugs
    [23:20:51] <Sorceress> twice a month
    [23:21:34] <Borstaskor> So, ye. I'll go ahead and be a bit sad that a few handful of heads wants to deprive the rest of the playerbase who doesn't do the thing a few handful of people do
    [23:21:35] <Alakazam> Bors, it's 5 days.  is that really such a huge ask?  We got the mag right cast as soon as we could to try to space them out
    [23:21:46] <Borstaskor> You're not seeing my point, I'm assuming
    [23:22:05] <Borstaskor> But eh, I'm no priest. I don't have a say in this.
    [23:22:10] <Timowi> no ofc not ...
    [23:22:10] <Borstaskor> I'll just be sad.-
    [23:22:31] <Alakazam> No, you have no idea who does, and doesn't switch.  You SAYING the 'majority' don't switch is just that...you saying it
    [23:22:45] <Alakazam> the fact is we hve NO IDEA who does, aand doesn't switch
    [23:22:51] <Borstaskor> You think that statement is wrong? :o
    [23:22:55] <Borstaskor> Interesting
    [23:22:57] <Alakazam> YOU think it's the majority that don't, becuase you don't
    [23:23:04] <Byrchman> perhaps then no one switches and it doesnt matter
    [23:23:05] <Sorceress> most people dont switch its very try hard
    [23:23:06] <Borstaskor> Yes, I do believe that. Not because I don't
    [23:23:09] <Alakazam> most peple I know sitch
    [23:23:14] <Timowi> Then SAY who all is switching. Let the switcher speak up
    [23:23:30] <Jindala> I just switched to Mag 2 days ago for this
    [23:23:31] <Timowi> Most ppl I know don't switch...
    [23:23:36] <Borstaskor> It's interesting how you think that statement is false tho
    [23:23:40] <Alakazam> Wwhy not?
    [23:23:43] <Sevenhavenz> wouldn't the same fallacy that you are accusing of borstakor to be having the same said for yourself?
    [23:23:47] <Borstaskor> That'd literally mean you think majority of people switch
    [23:23:51] <Borstaskor> Hmm
    [23:23:52] <Alakazam> there is litterally ZERO reason not to
    [23:23:58] <Homestead> I'm staying Vyn for the extra skill while imping during the impalong. Normally switch. But didn't for this.
    [23:24:04] <Sorceress> poll it right now and you'll see for real
    [23:24:25] <Jindala> Ya, I used to be one those. Seemed complicated and all. But it's superb - unless people f... it. And having 10h sb less than you could (in addition to what you still do get), that is sad
    [23:24:33] <Jacalina> :( i dont mean to interrupt for it makes me sad to see fellow gamers quarreling :( i hope yall can resolve it
    [23:24:40] <Sorceress> https://strawpoll.com/polls/e2navp81pgB
    [23:25:24] <Borstaskor> You'll have a hard time convincing me that 'majority' of people are tryhard enough to be switchers
    [23:25:26] <Borstaskor> Sorry
    [23:25:39] <Borstaskor> But I guess you're more than free to believe that to be the case
    [23:25:52] <Sorceress> 8 votes dont switch
    [23:25:59] <Sorceress> please vote
    [23:26:01] <Sorceress> https://strawpoll.com/polls/e2navp81pgB
    [23:26:05] <Sevenhavenz> why not just do a strawpoll on the impalong discord, then make a decision 6 hours tomorrow?
    [23:26:14] <Alakazam> I think of people who actively grind,and use sleep bonus, yea.  probably more people switch
    [23:26:15] <Sevenhavenz> 6hours before the end*
    [23:26:20] <Zephyrnull> it's complicated, the people that don't switch will have people who don't care to open a link to vote
    [23:26:42] <Jindala> I have no idea about who's a majority - and that's not the point. People who don't care are ok to. caring enough to f.. over those who try but not to do it properly yourself is what sounds meh to me
    [23:26:45] <Alakazam> if you count EVERYONE, for sure not...but most of those people are 'full' hwen the rite is cast anywway and it doesn't beneifit them one way or another
    [23:26:46] <Sevenhavenz> it works on both parties
    [23:26:56] Ephedra next sermon: @36 Omson, Ephedra, Shipwrighttas, Ommag, Squiddles, Emmett, Shanx, Ibarra
    [23:26:57] <Sevenhavenz> there will be people who switch that don't care as well
    [23:27:07] <Borstaskor> Most people use SB, wether you be a hardcore grinder who benefits hard from it or a casual
    [23:27:13] <Forticao> Hola,  alguien que hable español aqui?
    [23:27:18] <Sorceress> alright guys cast rite of spring i can link if you need a 100 faith
    [23:28:00] <Borstaskor> I've seen rites be pushed for quite a while (considerably longer than 5 days) before due to this switch meta thing
    [23:28:04] <Smarken> ppl who don't care dont vote ... same as reallity ^^
    [23:28:06] <Alakazam> In my alliance, peope either switch, or don't use sb at all
    [23:28:22] <Borstaskor> Which, every single times, fks up (WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE BUT YOU DONT NEED TO BELIEVE IT TO BE) the majority of people
    [23:28:26] <Alakazam> sure, more peole don't use sleep bonus, but agaain, they don't beneifit at all
    [23:28:52] <Jindala> If you don't care it doesn't matter. Otherwise just switch with it and enjoy the more. The half of both seems irrational. Not to mention what one misses on characteristics
    [23:28:55] <Jindala> Those ticks are huge
    [23:29:19] <Borstaskor> It's not like I don't know the value of sleep bonus
    [23:29:22] <Borstaskor> I got decent skill levels
    [23:29:27] <Jindala> I know ;)
    [23:29:35] <Alakazam> Bors, you right, and this time we made an effort to get them cast as ssoon as they becoFIVEialble so nobody would be waiting very long.  Jesus, it's FIVE days
    [23:29:57] <Yiannis> The impalong is 2 days. :D
    [23:29:58] <Borstaskor> I've been a non switcher all this time'
    [23:30:04] <Sevenhavenz> which will be 4 days after the impalong
    [23:30:06] <Borstaskor> Work a full time job
    [23:30:10] <Yiannis> I did not switch to mag because of the impalong
    [23:30:33] <Borstaskor> Don't quite have the energy to minmax to the level of switching, especially since I also don't alt meaning I don't have access to chars to easily convert me to any religion
    [23:30:42] <Borstaskor> (which, let's be fking fair, most people don't)
    [23:30:43] <Yiannis> So, again, 'normally' I would 'vote' wait (if voting mattered), but this time I would vote cast.
    [23:30:49] <Jacalina> [11:30:50] Tabasco pokes you in the ribs.
    [23:30:53] <Jacalina> yooo
    [23:31:19] <Zephyrnull> how about this: the devs had a kind of oversight with this. i know from other games switching beliefs usually results in big punishments
    [23:31:22] <Jindala> That's the strange thing  Borsta, you are minmaxing everything and like hardcore - just not that? I don't get it. Wouldn't mind if you weren't pushing "don't let them get it" at the same time
    [23:31:31] <Borstaskor> I do imagine the amount of globals I could've had if it wasn't for a switch meta. Maybe saying twice as many is a bit much but I wouldn't be surprised if I could be enjoying maybe 30-50% more globals
    [23:31:34] <Borstaskor> on average, that is
    [23:32:12] <Borstaskor> But eh, as I said before, I don't priest in any way at all. So it's not like I have an actual say
    [23:32:20] <Jacalina> and offff he goes :P
    [23:32:23] <Borstaskor> I'm just voicing opinions. Of a single player.
    [23:32:32] <Jacalina> at my budddy tabasco there :P
    [23:32:46] Ephedra Omson check PM
    [23:32:52] <Jindala> Caster are a different thing though, especially if played as main and only char or so. Those I really understand - and just would ask them to let the others enjoy what they cannot get

     

    Subsequently the later mention of casting the rite of spring and Annuile's (the event organiser) response.

     

    Quote

    [02:04:28] <Squiddles> since we are here any vynora priest wanna cast right of spring in a bit?
    [02:04:54] <Oflegends> anyone available who has a wagon kind enough to take my floor loom down to the docks? :P
    [02:05:10] <Seljanka> rite of spring?
    [02:05:20] <Seljanka> i want :D
    [02:06:08] <Squiddles> i think we need like 4 or 5 priest? idk ive never done it want to try though
    [02:06:24] <Gorgone> i would like to join there too
    [02:06:41] <Seljanka> ok all link me pls
    [02:06:43] Annuile If possible, please refrain from any rites until after the event closes. I don't want there to be drama on the last day -
    [02:06:57] <Squiddles> okay
    [02:06:59] <Seljanka> ok
    [02:07:04] Annuile I can't force you of course, but it's my selfish request if that's ok ❤️
    [02:07:20] <Elvedui> You're allowed to be selfish
    [02:07:27] <Sevenhavenz> (would really like to has rite of spring..)
    [02:07:51] <Seljanka> i need that for journal
    [02:07:59] <Sevenhavenz> *looks at 6 minutes remaining sleep bonus*
    [02:08:02] Annuile I understand it may upset some to delay it for a day - If you really, *really* need some SP talk to me and we can arrange some SP



    I am suggesting this as it is clear that this is still an abuse of a system. If changing of religions is something that was intended to be done in a manner where the exploit of being able to gain sleep bonus from any religion when the rite is casted is allowed, there shouldn't be a cooldown. Since there is a cooldown, it is there as a deterrence that changing of religions is a mechanic that was intended for those who have chosen erroneously or have a change of heart to have access to, and not for people to flippantly change for the benefit of gaining more sleep bonus. Moreover, sleep bonus is available in the two forms - bed sleeping, or sleeping powder, which the latter is accessed through a premium function where it involves purchase of premium time in either the form of silver, or microtransactions. It would not make sense for any game developer to allow for an exploit that allows unfair gain of premium products, which results in loss of revenue. Thus this game mechanic of abusing the low cooldown of 7 days to change religions and managing global rite casts to fit that cooldown is, as aforementioned, an abuse.

    I do not believe that any event organiser, especially a player based one (not even a GM, it is a major community event) has to bear the responsibility to decide a global affect event (rites), and the consequence of displeasure from either groups that benefit from either decision they did not make. Annuile has done massive amounts of work to make this event happen, and having to face such a decision is not something that should be added onto her plate, accident or otherwise. This abuse of game mechanic can be either mitigated through increases in penalties, or removal of penalties as someone suggested. However, with the removal of penalties could result in another argument of whether back to back rites should be casted within a certain period of each other, otherwise those who do religion switching will not gain the maximum benefit from all the rites available at one time (this scenario, while a very unlikely one, is still one that may happen down the line. If the stars align and an impalong causes this to happen, who wishes to bear the responsibility to deal with the masses?).

    If we truly want to have everyone win from rites being casted, why not just have sleep powders sent to all players available on the server whenever any rite is cast? Since this whole mechanic is a sham and this removes the need for people to change religions just to min max their lives just to get that sweet 5 hour sleep bonus after all. Why not just narrow it down to one bar that is shared among all the religions that affects when rites can be casted so that there is one shared goal with one shared benefit? Then there will be purpose for being part of any religion for an extended period of time while also allowing everyone to benefit from when rites are casted, in exchange that the frequency of rites being casted gets reduced from 5 to just 1.

    I created this post to see what the response is from the general public and to see people from both groups come together to discuss the problem as seen during the impalong. The results did not disappoint. We had no idea which group of people (switchers vs non-switchers) were the majority, and could not come to a proper conclusion that benefitted the majority because switchers were very vocal about refusal of conduct for the rite. The decision was handed over to annuile who had to make the call, which I felt was unfair for her since she already had many other things weighing her mind and she has already done so much to make the event happen. Has any of the switchers thought for the event organiser having to make such a decision, and the resulting consequences that is unfairly placed on them? I highly doubt it.

    edit: restructured a sentence that had confunding elements.

  12. Posted

    So a game mechanic that is being abused for more sleep bonus from rites/rituals is to change religions prior to a rite to obtain sleep bonuses from said religion. This has recently caused an issue during an impalong held at Cadence where due to the amount of favor that has been gained from the priests doing their work allowing for a the rite of spring to be conducted, but because of a loud minority of "religion-switchers", the rite was requested to be held off by the organiser so that this minority could gain from their abuse of a game mechanic. This causes other people who are non-switchers, and are part of the worship of vynoria, not to receive that much needed 5 hour sleep bonus during their time at the impalong, and the organiser being caught in the middle having to make a decision between two groups to appease.

    I am suggesting that this game mechanic should have heavier penalities, maybe not being allowed to change religions for the next 6 months to a year, or something similar to discourage the abuse of such a mechanic, so that this sort of behaviour can cease to exist, and disrupt others from enjoying the game as it should.