Amata

.... Common Courtesies that Wurmians (Mostly?) Observe .... (I will be repeating some things already mentioned as an effort to +1 these community ideals!) if possible, replant trees you fell if you are going to fell trees to level up your weapon skill - whenever possible, have a friend or neighbor(s) follow you to bash tree trunks & collect the lumber for usage ditto if you are leveling foraging & botany or foraging for coins please use corner-paving to create diagonal stretches of roadways; zig-zag roads are eventually going to get "fixed" by someone - so save your neighbors the trouble Wurmians have multiple methods of dwelling in game; learn to recognize which type you are encountering, and be respectful when in someone else's dwelling space* whenever possible, provide a safe space for travelers: even just a fenced area with a gate they can enter when running for their life if you provide a guest house or rest spot, please also provide a safe area of grass for mounts & hitched animals players: return market keys after collecting your purchase... markets: provide players with well marked key-return barrels or boxes "wild" and "perimeter" lands of Wurm are public lands. That doesn't mean a player can do whatever they want and nobody has the right to tell them otherwise - that means the public all have equal say about what happens in that space. Read: if it says "wild" or "perimeter" collaboration should be given priority over my idea or gtfo. Public Works are sacrosanct. Only make changes when a Local consensus can be reached. This means roads, highways, canals, tunnels, docks, areas immediately adjacent to Newbie spawn points, and areas obviously maintained for public use of resources (orchards, gardens, milking cows, mines, fishing ponds, sand pits, clay pits, etc) The bigger your project is, the more you should be communicating about it with your Local Make honest attempts to locate the owners of things you find that might have been stolen and/or accidentally lost and/or got loose somehow. Be gracious if an original owner turns up to request things returned. when reasonably possible, try to deed land (including your perimeter) X number of tiles away from any other deed+perimeter. X is variable depending no the size and active population of your particular island. If you don't have a general idea of your island's X - ask. Ask multiple times and average the responses. Don't expect server chat to do for you what CA Chat will do. Also, don't expect CA Chat to do for you what you haven't yet tried for yourself. When possible, provide assistance to players making a corpse run; we've all been there at least once. When possible, provide assistance to newbies obviously struggling; we were all new once. Different aspects of Wurm have different value to other players. Don't "it's just a game" someone when they express either distress or enthusiasm about something you consider low-priority or uninteresting. "Be Kind" and "Play Nice" are not just for PR and marketing schemes to make Wurm & the Wurm community look better than it is. These are actual instructions and a real rule from official Wurm staff. I would also add: be considerate. Your idea of "kindness" might not be your neighbor's idea of "kind." In the quest progression of being kind and playing nice - also be considerate of how your community and your neighbors might think and feel about a thing. Don't be a thief on a PvE island. Just... don't. Accidents and misunderstandings happen; admit offenses, make reparations, and move on. On BOTH sides. Certain in-game things are unique, rare, or highly valued. Figure out what they are and be respectful. Don't steal, hoard, or ruin it for others. (Hint: oak trees, willow trees, certain types of ore, Champion mobs... You can figure out the rest as you go along) For the love of the gods, don't take advantage of the newbies When someone has helped you in some way, pay it forward * Regarding Wurmian Methods of Dwelling (in a Wurm world according to Amata.... ) Between playing completely free (as do the Free Folk) and using IRL money for your deed upkeep and your player premium subscription (that's me, lol)... Wurmians have developed a number of approaches to dwelling in Wurm. I flourish best in an ordered, defined environment, so here is the orderly definitions I have come up with so far.... A "homestead" is a free, undeeded, area of otherwise public land being used for dwelling and/or actively cultivating resources. Among those who live primarily on a "homestead" are new players who have built a classic "newbie shack" and temporary fencing on "wild" tiles, or even perimeter lands... as well as the aforementioned Free Folk of Wurm. A "deed" (aka: village, settlement, estate, etc.) is an area that has been deeded and maintained by a player (the "mayor") and the deed's citizens. Things that are on-deed are privately held and no longer public even if they are still accessible to the public. (For example, paths and small roadways that the public might use cutting through the deed). Deeds afford their players with certain dwelling perks, such as the ability to brand animals and the use of menus to set and control different levels of accessibility while on-deed. "Holdings" are the various combined properties of any given player. A player's holdings may include any number of deeds on various islands, as well as hunting cabins, rented or owned space at a dock or market, and also any homesteads being actively maintained by the player. Example: Jane is relatively new, and has a homestead next door to Amata's deed. As a long time player, John's holdings are extensive, and include a deed on this island, a deed on Xan, and a couple different hunting cabins. Also, John's Alliance maintains a homestead near the closest newbie town, which is often used to help (and eventually recruit) new players for the various Alliance villages. This is all to say that we should be respectful of each other's spaces - whether or not they are "on-deed" - as homesteads and Free Folk and Wurm Nomads do exist. As do hunting cabins and resource nodes with alts parked at them. Always look for signs of life, repair, and upkeep before assuming that a place is an abandoned or disbanded deed.

There is one aspect of "The Rules" that has been touched on, in some way, by nearly every single response to this topic. Personally, I honestly think this discussion deserves it's own, pinned, ongoing thread - until the day that The Powers That Be actually decide to address the matter. That is.... The "Play Nice" Rule Trickster graciously provided this thread with a copypaste of that rule, and it goes like this : As far as I can tell, boiling down the underlying base of any discussion that involves The "Play Nice" Rule... the Wurm player base honestly has ONE - and only one - question about this rule that seriously needs to be resolved as soon as possible. Are elements A, B, C, and D of the "Play Nice" rule an enumerated list, or is the "Play Nice" rule found in the given "Definition" and elements A, B, C, and D are a few examples that Wurm staff simply wanted to address specifically? In other words, when a player's actions break with A, B, C, and/or D that is breaking the "Play Nice" Rule - but is it, or is it not, also breaking the "Play Nice" Rule when a player's actions break with the "Play Nice" definition but not specifically A, B, C, and/or D. Are Wurmians being asked to avoid any unconstructive or harmful activities - or does it only count as griefing if it falls under those 4 specific types of unconstructive / harmful actions? I have yet to find a discussion, debate, unresolved issue, or moderator-involved problem invoking the "Play Nice" rule that doesn't basically come down to a disagreement about how to understand what the "Play Nice" rule does or does not include.

Regarding "Stealing" on PVE islands.... subtitled: Amata's Obvious Thoughts are Obvious Theft - the conscious taking of another's property, or public property, for personal use with no intention of remuneration or return - is entirely possible on PVE islands. Furthermore, there is currently NO RULE that adequately prohibits these actions. If you look in the actual game rule set, you will not find any sentence saying, "stealing is not allowed on PVE servers." In the Wurm Online Rules, there are only 2 places where some sort of thievery is addressed. They are - LockpickingA ) Lockpicking anything that does not belong to you is not permitted.Punishment: You may be warned, or banned based on the situation. And Play Nice Or We Will Rip Your Heart Out (griefing)Definition: Activities that are not constructive or with deliberate intent to do harm to others.C ) You may not steal deeds from the original mayor or residing citizens. - resident citizens on democratic deeds may vote a new mayor for any reason. That, and only that, is it. When you hear the sentence "stealing is not allowed on PVE servers" said by devs, GMs, mods, CA workers, and any other players .... what you need to hear is the following: "The Steal Action is disabled on PVE servers" Chapter Two: The "Steal" Action is disabled on PVE servers So here is my obvious thought - and I have to acknowledge Platyna for this since she has been calling this out & fighting for this cause since well before I got on board - It is entirely possible to act as a thief on PVE servers regardless of whether or not you use a "steal" action to do it. There are any number of ways that all of us already know to knowingly take an item, animal, or object, etc. that IS NOT YOURS, with no intention of remuneration or return, and completely get away with it. On deed, off deed, out in the wild - there are a variety of contexts wherein a player can come across some other player's stuff sitting loose, and just pick it up and walk away. A new player hasn't gotten their perms set correctly (yet). Someone is doing a day's worth of logging, harvesting, foraging, whatever - and there are piles and stacks kinda everywhere; they're on the other side of the field focused on working.... you can help yourself to the fruits of their labor. All the bins I see here are locked - except one! A player secured all of these things to the ground, except this one! As long as the owner is offline, I can just stand here bashing on this until it falls apart, or becomes unsecured, etc. The creativity of thieves has no bounds - and when you've shut down one approach, they'll think up three more. I know this. You know this. They know it, too. Just because an action is possible as a matter of game mechanics does NOT inherently make it a permissible thing to do. Using "there's no stealing on PvE servers" as a shield against complaint or redress is disingenuous at best. And when moderators fall back on that line in order to fast-track the resolution of a support ticket, they are selling out the "fair and just" members of the community to the "take advantage anyway possible" toxic elements - and for what? - convenience? The ability to discharge their responsibilities and get back to playing their own games? Because they are only volunteers and are literally not getting paid enough for this? That's no fair to us - and it's not fair to the moderators either. Chapter Three: What about Ruin Hunters and Legit Scavenging? Yeah, what about it? Here's the thing, players with reasonable concerns - your concerns are reasonable and I'm talking about activities that are known to be unreasonable by the entire community. So I'm not really talking about you, now am I? To be blunt for clarity's sake... Ruin Hunting and/or Scavenging are legitimate, time-honored activities in Wurm. Everyone I know, including myself, has done some scavenging or ruin hunting in their gameplay, at least once. This is TOTALLY DISTINCT from stealing from other players in a number of ways. Off the top of my head, here are some notable differences: Ruin Hunters, and to a lesser degree Scavengers, are specifically looking for ruins. They are looking for those deeds they see announced server-wide as disbanded. They are checking the ground tiles to see if a thing is on-deed, or if the land is actually un-deeded wilds. They're checking walls and fences for unrepaired decay - not 10, 20, or 30 damage - but significant decay. The kind of decay that is a sign of an abandoned deed. A homestead nobody is calling 'home' anymore. Signs that a player has quit, or has been on an extended leave of absence. They are looking for planted signs saying, "I'm away this month due to surgery. Be back soon!" or such. Thieves are looking for opportunity. Unlike Ruin Hunters and Scavengers.... a thief doesn't care, and probably is not checking to see, if a deed is abandoned. If a homestead has become a ruin. If this collection of random items, objects, or bins were all clearly made by the same player, or planted by the same player. They're not going to try and contact that player to see if it's okay to "liberate" items, or move objects, or to make off with whatever resources are available. The point IS the taking. If "caught," confronted, or contacted - any Ruin Hunter or Scavenger with any self-respect will say, "oh, sorry! my mistake" and return or repay any things taken, within reason. A thief will resist, or ignore, or deny. If the response is "deed it or lose it," that person knew that it was somebody else's stuff and decided to take it anyway because it was possible, not because it was an okay thing to do. As you read through this thread, there is a very noticeable theme. There are people who say, "deed it or lose it" and then follow up with an acknowledgement that, naturally, being a nice neighbor and a well-intentioned player should be the higher priority. And there are also people who say, "deed it or lose it" and then mic drop and walk away from the discussion like they've just totally owned what is honestly a complex and nuanced discussion. Guess which players are Ruin Hunters and which players are Thieves. Go ahead, I'll wait. If you are a THIEF - you are either a total newbie and unintentional thief.... or you are actually a thief and even when playing dumb, you know it. If you are a RUIN HUNTER, or another player, who knows they are not a thief and are interjecting defensively.... I see you, we all know you, and we know you're legit, so this isn't about you. I love you, but your additional comments are muddying the waters and unintentionally aligning yourself - our legit neighbors - on the same side as thieves. I don't want that. You don't want that. So please, with all due respect, this isn't about you. Chapter Four: Permission Systems and that Purse Analogy Is it possible for all of us to agree that a person can simultaneously acknowledge preventative steps while also suggesting that the goal is to make such steps unnecessary? That's about where I am on the subject of stealing on PVE islands. The "steal" action, as a game mechanic, is unavailable. It is disallowed. So people argue that any undesired "taking" activities cannot possibly be "stealing" since the "steal" action literally cannot be used. While at the same time, there are systems of property protection, and so any discourse on theft or ownership in Wurm inevitably boils down to whether or not the owner sufficiently made use of the available protections. And that, whether you want to hear this or not, is the textbook definition of victim blaming. Yes, by all means, players should do what they can to prioritize certain items or objects or resources - and put those things specifically under lock and key, and then another lock and key, and then another one inside that. Put what you love inside a locked box, inside a locked chest, inside a locked vehicle, parked inside a locked building, situated on a deed with every possible permission turned off and 31+ days of upkeep in the coffer. But if you drop your purse in your perimeter - for any reason at all - that STILL does not give anyone the RIGHT to take your purse. Here's how it works... humans don't refrain from taking what belongs to others because there are TEH RULEZ telling us not to. We do not take what belongs to others because THAT IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO BEHAVE. PERIOD. Even if there is a Rule saying that it's not against the rules to do so, and that you'll get away totally free with no consequences - guess what? - it's STILL NOT RIGHT. Inherently. I honestly do not know why many (most?) humans intuitively grasp this concept, while others need to be taught to understand social ethics, while still others can have any amount of guidance and teaching and philosophy and arguments and yet they just absolutely do not get it. Worse is when you encounter a person who does get it, but just does not care. But this is a situation that exists, IRL and in Wurm; that's just how humans are, and the question becomes "what do we do about it? What next?" And, for those who have been taking stabs at this back and forth, here is the Purse analogy you were looking for: Given that a perimeter is a "public space" AND Given that individual / player rights in public spaces are changed from their rights in private spaces (e.g. on deed) AND Given that technical stealing is disallowed as a game mechanic, but theft is possible, especially in public spaces AND Given that we are not talking about the perimeter of an abandoned deed or other Ruin Hunter / Scavenger situation.... Do I still have any say-so over the purse? The Nintendo Switch? The food and blanket? Are they mine? Or could they be anybody's? Should someone feel free to walk up, sit down, and eat the food? Play a bit on the Switch? Should a stranger help themselves to the contents of the purse since it isn't locked? Should that person feel free to simply take the entire purse home with them? It was out in public, after all. Does it matter that I am obviously adjacent to that picnic setup? Does anyone owe it to ask me first if I've got an interest in the spot, and maybe some of that stuff is "mine" in some way? If there is no Rule forcing us - do we actually owe anything to ourselves and to others? Chapter Five: What is my Point? No seriously, I'm asking, what the heck is my friggin point? There is a "social contract" meme that goes around American social media every so often. Reading through this topic has brought it to my mind, and I hear it in my head any time I start reading a reply on this thread. I dunno if other countries have their own versions of this meme that pop up any time there's a big social scandal, or an unpopular local policy in effect, or a major political event like an election. In the meme, the details or specifics highlighted can vary depending on what's current... But, the bottom line is generally the same: I don't know how to explain that you should care about others. If this is not self-evident to you, perhaps you can kindly get lost so that the rest of us can have a productive society here without you. I really don't want to get in trouble or anything, so I'm putting the current American version of the meme under a spoiler. Also, take the specifics with a grain of salt - they are relevant specifically to an ongoing modern American discussion about government stuff, and this meme can easily be found with other bullet points or other examples more relevant to different countries and different discussions. Is that okay with everyone? (I really hope so, plz forum mods, don't delete this entire reply. If you need to please just remove this last part & the spoiler content below. It took me a while to sort out all of this response in my head, and I'd hate to lose the content). In short: Platyna is correct. Either "stealing" is not allowed on PVE as a Rule - and therefore should actually be in the Rules, and should encompass all thievery no matter how a player 'gets away with it' ..... OR - stealing IS allowed on PVE and we should stop using vague sentences like "stealing isn't allowed on PVE" when we are only talking about one very specific game mechanic that has been literally turned off ... otherwise, we are giving players an incorrect picture of the game play environment, and leaving them open to misunderstandings at best. (Plus, it is completely disingenuous and in poor faith for building a nontoxic community.) In short: decide what you mean, say specifically what you mean, put it in writing, and enforce it.

This breaks my heart. Is there any hope for humanity left? Congrats Oreo and Beanbag, you have both made it onto ~ Amata's Sht List ~ a very small, and very easily avoidable list. No doubt, this news will likely make you smugly happy. Have fun with that.

My views on this should come as no surprise to anyone at all. After all, I am Amata - the bleedin' heart, tree-hugging, flower-crown-wearing, hand holding, bonfire dancing, let's-all-sing-together, socially progressive, shoulda-been-Canadian instead-of-American, Fo worshipping, hippie earth mama of Independence. ✌🏼️🌱💜 I am just pleased as punch to see that there is finally a topic that draws together the incredibly unbelievable united support of myself, Ekcin, Trickster, Kelody, Zexos, Anthony, and - gods help us all - Platyna. If I may, to the best of my ability, here is a collective manifesto regarding community & courtesy in Wurm: This isn't a single-player, "user is sole authority," game. It's a multi-player, "community & building," life-sim game ... interpersonal interactions with other players are inherent to game play. Just because an activity is not specifically breaking A Rule, doesn't make it good. Louder, for the players in the back - just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. Rules - especially unspoken community guidelines - should be accessible in game for those that don't use the forum; planted signs and active communication are key. If an action is going to affect the local community, make a conscious effort to discuss it with everyone nearby first The higher the impact of your actions, the more you should communicate about it. Perimeter lands specifically exist to prevent contiguous deeds and to ensure resources are kept accessible; perimeter "rights" are neither afforded to any player, nor excluded from any player. Perimeter usage is entirely a matter of interpersonal courtesy, not anyone's "right." "Deed It or Lose It" is cautionary advice for deed owners to approach property and safety proactively. "Deed It or Lose It" is not a viable excuse for poor behavior and/or actions serving self-interest at the detriment of others. Serve self-interests in the vast wild spaces of Wurm, and play nicely with your neighbors. What constitutes "beautiful" or "pleasing" is up to a player's opinion. What constitutes "constructive gameplay" is up to a player's judgement. No individual player's opinion or judgement is a higher priority than any other player's opinion or judgement. Any space not specifically on-deed must be used by consensus of Local players. When in doubt, ask and then collaborate. In public lands, there are signs that an area is being actively used. Lumber trees in orderly rows; orchards being tended; decorative elements like flowerpots, hedges, and fencing, as well as any built structure in decent repair. Being on a deed''s perimeter is also a sign. The list of signs of life goes on... Learn the signs, and err on the side of respecting others' efforts to cultivate well-maintained public spaces. Whenever possible.... If you cut down a tree please replant it. If you gather a resource, please make use of it or give it to another to use. Have a care for community assets like roadways, highways, tunnels, canals, and public resource nodes (mines, orchards, fishing spots, docks, etc). Treat others as you would be treated. This applies to their environment as well. If you don't own it, as much as possible, leave it as you found it. Polite, considerate, and respectful conduct makes life easier for everyone. But always remember: there are people here who don't share your values, and they will always take advantage if they can.

Yesterday evening a member of the Independence community brought this post specifically to my attention. Wanted to know why I hadn't replied to something that is so obviously right up my wheelhouse. (Answer: very bad news IRL has kept me off the grid this week). After 3 pages of responses, I can honestly jump in and say .... Hey look, there are some very strong personalities in the Wurm community. Seriously tho, I feel for @ChampagneDragon- I have a somewhat similar post over in Suggestions, where I see responses and think, "my goodness, did you even read the original post before clicking 'submit reply'??" The OP could be more-or-less summarized by "hey, there's a lot of new players; this is a good time to share tips on those unspoken "common courtesies" that help make the wheels of Wurm keep turnin'" .... and the bulk of the content so far has been preoccupied with (1) an anecdote shared incidentally by the OP and/or (2) a very divisive debate over whether people are capable of giving a crap about others unless there is A Rule forcing them to. I know that I'm prone to making super long forum posts addressing multiple responses and approaching the topic from different angles.... but I think I'm gonna chunk things up for this one.... I'm not even sure at this point what, if anything, I want to engage with here.

@Oblivionnreaverhere, I fixed it for you: Maybe we can consider something like: "reject trolling, embrace respect & empathy for others" ??

If this is something that can be programmed and implemented, sure. This suggestion absolutely achieves the core goal - "make political topics optional content for players without removing access to the primary mode of Wurm communication (ie. public chat channels)" And this suggestion has the added benefit that basically nothing would need changing about forum posts with political content - as forum posts are already filtered by subforum (content), topic Title (discussion focus), and spoilers (particularly sensitive content).

Oh hey. Look at this. A post involving the words "perimeter" and "horse" and "taken" got derailed by something that belongs in a different subforum (like, Suggestions? or Town Square?). Oakmaiden, I definitely hope you get your horses back. I am also a fan of the black silver horses, and of collecting, in general. I have no idea if I'm around your area or not, but do you happen to have the names of the horses? That will help us all keep an eye out for them. For *cough* *cough* everyone else.... I am going to repost Oakmaiden's original post. Let's try to stay on topic this time, okay?

PS. Aprons of all types. leather aprons for blacksmiths. cloth aprons for bakers. rough aprons for peasants' everyday wear.

I would support more clothing / tailoring items. Let's see much more variety in cloth, wool, and leather! Please a giant big huge NO to gender-locked items. YES to skirts and dresses and vests; NO to skirts-only-worn-by-females and vests-can-only-worn-by-males. That's some crappy crap. We don't like it in other games, and we won't be pleased if that stupidity comes to Wurm as well. Would like to see better modular clothing items. Like simple blouse sleeves that can be paired with a leather vest or a cloth/wool bodice (to make an overdress + chemise look). Have no problem with non-modular clothing "sets" too - would be fun to collect all the different clothing parts that combine to make one full, coherent look - like the milkmaid outfit, or baker, barman/barmaid, innkeeper, washerwoman, plague doctor, apothecary, jester, minstral, troubadour, lady in waiting hermit, etc.

Hi. I adore pretty much everything you said. I'm trying very hard to keep an open mind and take an unbiased view of all the points people are bringing to this discussion, but your post really got me. I mean, I was so pleased and interested by what you were saying AND how you were saying it... I accidentally gave a heart to your response out of instinct, before remembering that I've challenged myself to not give out "hearts" to responses on this particular thread. I've had that reaction to other responses, but always caught myself before any action was taken... with this one, I actually had to scroll back up and un-click the heart. ... so now everybody knows that about me (and about what I thought about your response). I feel that everyone probably already could guess that your thoughtful reply would make me happy, anyway. 😅 This nuance is brilliant, and thank you for articulating it so directly. Personally, I don't feel that topics of political nature should be outright banned or restricted. To be frank, I don't think there are any topics under the sun that humanity has ever tried to discuss that should be outright, inherently banned or restricted. I honestly cannot think of a single subject matter that even the merest mention thereof is as bad or worse than the thing itself - Voldemort exempted - and, as you mention, there are many times where it is vitally important to center topics in public discourse, especially the "bad" ones that must be identified in order to call for corrections. In short - I believe any topics placed on enumerated "do not talk" lists have found their place on that list specifically due to how the topic is typically discussed. A glance at Wurm's "do not talk" list seems to confirm this - those topics being sex, drugs & rock'n'roll I mean, religion, sex/pornography, & drug use. As noted earlier in this discussion, the only such topic missing from this line up of "usual suspects" is politics. This is why my first (and initial) suggestion is IF this list continues to exist, "politics" has a universally-recognized place on it, and THUS, should be added. However, I will admit that I would be more interested in not having a "do not talk" list in the first place. My primary course of studies in life have been focused on religion and the human practice thereof... there is not a single context in my life that I do not carry what I've learned with me. As such - for me - there is never a time or a place (IRL, in-game, on discussion boards, forums, and cocktail parties) that I ever feel that religion as a topic would be wrong in any way. I am entirely swayed by your point that, if only people could keep a civil tongue, we could finally have some darn good conversations about things that are actually worth talking about. I know a great deal about religion, for example, and absolutely nothing about what celebrities are using for their makeup and hair care products. But I am not perfect. I am a very fallible human being. I, myself, sometimes cannot keep a civil tongue, and I would be the first to avoid a topic rather than expose others to the venom and cruelty I can dish out when pushed too far on certain subjects. My questions to @elentarimight be: if it is, in fact, how a topic is usually discussed - how does that change the approach to handle that situation? If we know that a certain topic usually generates a specific (undesired) type of discussion, is that any different in practice from recognizing that there is an undesirable effect somehow inherent to the topic itself? *fans self* ... Is it getting awfully warm in here, or is it just me? lol, no seriously, stop talking before I am forced to kiss you. Did you study anthropology at some point in life? Or polysci? Or even that demon bastard sociology? (There was a very large interdepartmental rivalry at my Uni between the anth and soci departments). This is the most direct catalyst for me in creating this Suggestion in the first place. Player A says a simple sentence in chat, or in a forum post. Player B says "that's trolling. I'm shocked and outraged and hurt and upset. Please mute / delete the trolling." Player A says "I'm just discussing politics, that's not against any rules." What happens next? As things currently stand, moderator intervention is entirely discretionary. Some mods say Player A gets the benefit of the doubt, unless Player B can prove that Player A was intentionally trolling. According to Wurm, proof of "trolling" activity requires repetition and intent - two things that the random mod responding that particular day might not be aware of, or keeping track of. The demonstrable effect of Player B experiencing shock, outrage, or hurt is insufficient to prove that Player A has broken any rules. Player B is assumed to be overreacting or in some way too sensitive, and the mod's final decision is to encourage Player B to /ignore things that bother them, and/or go to a different chat channel, or block the other forum user. Some mods say Player B gets the benefit of the doubt, unless Player A can prove that Player B is overreacting to an otherwise unremarkable discussion / forum topic. This is sufficiently provable based on chat logs, surrounding forum posts, the general vibe being represented by the discourse, and if any other players have made (or would make) similar complaints. If there is evidence that a typical conversation is progressing, or if there is evidence that other players share the sentiment, the mod will make a final decision based on discretion and context. Either way, there is very little consistency in the current handling by chat and forum moderators. With no specific rule addressing a topic known to generate undesired actions, both the players and the moderators are in a constant state of "playing it by ear" - for the same basic issue over and over again. The train of thought that led to this Suggestion might be summarized as: political topics are known to generate toxicity in a game community actively trying to fight a reputation as a toxic community. I love this game, and many of the good folk I have met in this gaming community. I have had personal experiences of what I consider political trolling in chat / forums - and I have seen first hand that the moderator's response to such is inconsistent and sometimes appears to uphold a player's right to be toxic. This makes no sense to me. Something ought to address this disconnect between wanting to oust toxicity and the unregulated state of political topics fostering toxic interactions subject to random moderator discretion. I agree. Suggesting that the chat & forum rules might be changed to address the broader issue was an attempt on my part to ensure that the moderators are not to blame for the state of things. A moderator can only do so much - and as Wurm is a small community (feeling growing pains at present?) - many or most or all of the moderators are volunteer positions. While I believe that the players deserve better continuity & instruction in writing about consequences for certain actions... I also believe that the moderators deserve better, too. Without a clear, written ruleset for something known to be a source of problematic behavior, the moderators are left in the precarious position of making constant judgement calls about an already sensitive matter. In this particular area, I feel like Wurm is kinda pushing its own moderators out on a limb, and one that is known to be tricky at best. I don't like the idea that the mods are in that sort of position. I also don't like that putting mods in that sort of position has a trickle-down effect of being singularly unhelpful for the players calling mods specifically for help. Basically: we're all getting the short end of the stick. And it can be better. It should be better. Let's make it better. For all of us. Hi. My name's Amata. Welcome to the topic. no, seriously, tho... I honestly cannot speak to what the moderators would do, or could do, or even would want to do. I also know that, as a matter of policy, the moderators do not comment on topics in the Suggestion forum - so I'm pretty sure that this question will remain, unfortunately, unanswered. As for the rest.... I agree, books and treatises and papers and studies and the life-long works of great humans that have come before have been dedicated to unraveling the question "what is political?" and also, "when is this political?" It might be easier to find an answer to the question "when is it Art, versus when is it obscene?" - and that's really saying something. I agree that I find the response "everything is political" a purposefully navel-gazing act of diverting from an otherwise well-defined discussion. How to throw a call for action off the rails? Convert it into a philosophical debate. There are plenty of other responses that have a similar (intended?) effect on the conversation; I find them all to be distastefully disingenuous. Although I have tried to be supportive and pleasant, there are a few that I have even called out in this thread already. Very few things leave me as disgusted as an earnest question given a flippant response. (I see you, you blackguards, and you've been put on my shtlist). One problem with simply making an official "politics" chat channel that players can simply opt out of, is that this implies the message that all political topics are inevitable trainwrecks that ought to be isolated from public / general discourse... I would much prefer a message that says political topics are for discourse, but will be curtailed when they are heading toward trainwrecks. Also: If "politics" chat channel.... why not "religion" chat channel. Why not "adult topics" chat channel. Why not "drugs and rock n'roll" chat channel. I don't want to cry "slippery slope!!" but, well, there it is for just this moment.

TBH... I feel like this is a good articulation of the premise of Wurm chat & forum guidelines. Like, all Wurmians start at the assumption that limits and decency will be respected. This might be tangential, but I kinda feel like even IRL, rules aren't (or shouldn't be) established to define how people should or must behave... so much as to address how to handle a situation when people haven't lived up to the norms, standards, and expectations of citizenry. Or, at very least, being a decent human being. Anyway, I guess I'm saying@christopher, well, Yes. That's the starting point. To engage with this topic, I would ask you to consider what happens when the limits are broken. What, if anything, should Wurm put down in writing as guidelines for how to handle a situation where a participant in conversation about a political topic is aware of the limits AND pushes past those limits anyway. If that is too broad, perhaps consider this question instead: who is given the "right of way" in chat & forums - the person who would like to "talk about anything" or the person who has reached "its limits"? I am interested to hear what you think.

I would build thatch roofs, but I am ambivalent about the current texture / look. I've seen them used. Haven't yet gone for it myself.

Griffith - glad to hear that you are at a positive place in your journey & feeling healthy and like you have made "progress" ... I adore this post, and have absolutely loved all the wonderful musical contributions so far! Thank you for making a post where we could share these song with each other 💜💜 I have the dual influence of ongoing, degenerative health issues... and a musical family. So, like Trickster, I have an entire funeral playlist. Like Trickster, I'm also going to touch briefly on my religion - I am a practicing Pagan and witch, and reincarnation is a part of my belief set. So that definitely directly impacts my views on death and funerals, the afterlife, etc. I think "bittersweet celebration" is a lovely way to describe what might be the vibe of a memorial gathering in my honor. I am of the belief that although I would want things simple, I also acknowledge that these rites and gatherings are for the benefit and wellbeing of those who survive me - and I anticipate that (given my family and friends) there will be much feasting and drinking and dancing and a lot, A LOT, of music of all sorts. And probably a giant bonfire somewhere out in the wilderness.... 😅 Playlist is Here: Lyrics are under the things! "Dance In the Graveyards" by Delta Rae "Heroes" by David Bowie & Brian Eno "Under Pressure" by Queen & David Bowie "The Rain Song" by Led Zeppelin "The Book of Love" originally by The Magnetic Fields; arrangement by Peter Gabriel "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd "Waiting for My Real Life to Begin" by Colin Hay Reprise: "Heroes" by David Bowie & Brian Eno. Arrangement by Peter Gabriel "Into The West" by Annie Lennox "The Call" by Regina Spektor "Can't Take It In" by Imogen Heap

Just in case anyone had this thought in passing.... I do not consider this a "moot point" or "no longer a problem" just because the Americans had / are finally deciding their election.* "Politics" happens everywhere around the globe; many countries are fraught with civil unrest and turbulence at present; one nation's elections may be ending but another nation's political theater is just starting up... etc. Who can say what political topic will be the next hotspot or sensitive issue? I still believe that it is important to consider this Suggestion thread, and determine what (if anything) Wurm can do to support efforts for interpersonal positivity and tranquility. Core Topic Points: IF Wurm maintains an enumerated list of topics to avoid in chat, and in the forums, AND such a list contains the topics "religion," "sex / pornography," and "drugs" THEN the topic "politics" and/or "current sensitive social issues" should be added to the enumerated list. IF "politics" is an allowed topic for discussion in Wurm chat channels, AND such a discussion has escalated such that one or more players have requested a moderator's intervention, THEN the moderator should generally err on the side of instructing players to move the discussion to a private channel and change the topic of conversation in the public channel. Per the current rules, players that do not comply with moderator's instructions may be muted, or more at the moderator's discretion. IF "politics" is an allowed topic for discussion in the Wurm forums, AND such a forum thread has escalated such that one or more players have requested a moderator's intervention, THEN the moderator should generally err on the side of the complainant(s). IF "politics" and "current sensitive social issues" continue as allowed topics for discussion in Wurm chat channels and in the forums THEN forum and chat moderators deserve modern, up-to-date, and credible training to ensure that Wurm moderators are appropriately equipped, well informed, and actively supported when asked to intervene in relevant discussions on public chat channels and on relevant forum posts. *yes, I'm American; I could have personalized the sentence as "just because we Americans had / are deciding our election... " I tried to err on the side of impersonal or impartial because of what I said next: politics is everywhere, and affects everyone around the globe. This Suggestion was never intended to be specifically about my experiences and my interactions with my nation's political theater; this is about quality of life for all of us who share Wurm, no matter where on the globe we live.

we love the shineys! gives us the Precious!!

Whether you use current currency somehow, or introduce a new currency to be specific to this ..... I would totally be down for this addition. Vendor items to consider could be: past seasonal / holiday event loot - as in the OP more skins for weapons and tools vanity items like civilian outfits / costumes (milkmaid, baker, barman/barmaid, innkeeper, washerwoman, plague doctor, apothecary, etc), vanity / non-combat pets (tabby cats, domestic dogs, birds, baby animals, pixies, nature sprites, etc) decoration items and objects "decor" NPCs to enliven a deed (a blacksmith with anvil animations, milkmaid at cow, town jester, minstral(s), a juggler, merchant / market types, nobles and courtiers, etc)

Okay, wow, you've got a lot going on & its definitely making all the little problems join up into one big, giant, ugly problem. Let's get that sorted out for you, mmkay?... Slow Down. Wurm is a play-for-years-to-get-to-level-1 kind of game. You can jump right in and start Day 1 with just about anything you want... but it wont be days, weeks, or even months to get established and stabilized as a player. It will take 6 months to any number of years. So, with some patience, I'm sure we can get you back on the right track for a more enjoyable experience. PvP - go where the action is, but requires a brand new start This option is best if you prioritize active PvP play above all else, are willing to make an entirely new character, and would rather be poor where people are than rich but relatively isolated. If you are dedicated to the idea of playing PvP in Wurm, it is important to go where the other PvP players are... unfortunately, it sounds a bit like maybe you jumped right in without asking around or checking in on forums or wiki, etc. That means your pick of where to PvP was totally random / uninformed... and sadly, you went with a bad pick. Currently, the "new hotness" are the Northern Islands - and the PvP is happening on Defiance. I do not have the server population data off the top of my head, so I don't know what kingdoms, if any, are still active on Chaos. All islands have their own subforum - I would recommend asking around in the various subforums to see who is active & where they are. Also, be sure to check out the Village Recruitment Center subforum... literally a whole subforum dedicated to people talking about where the action's at. As I write this, one of the top posts is currently a post all about PvP activity on Defiance. Probably lots of good information there for you! Kingdoms?? - maximize on your investments & play with your friend, but see less action This option makes the most of your current settlement and investments, you and your friend will be playing PvP content together, but the level of activity on your island will rise-and-fall from time to time. If you want to play with a friend on a PvP server, you will need to both be "on the same side" - that is, in the same kingdom. I might be wrong, but I really can't think of any other PvP game out there that handles things differently. If your avatars are on opposite sides of a war, be it player v player, faction v faction, or kingdom v kingdom, it is generally understood that "the other guys" are not going to be able to visit you in-game in a PvP setting despite being friends IRL. You should have known that from the start. And if you didn't, you must be very new to gaming overall. Welcome to gaming; now you know. If you want to both play together in PvP and fight each other too, then be in the same kingdom for PvP play, and duel or spar with each other when you wanna fight. If one or the both of you are seriously dedicated to the kingdoms you are in and don't want to switch... well that's something you'll need to discuss with your buddy and work out for yourselves. At this point, considering your investment in a settlement, your best option is probably to have your friend convert & join your kingdom. PvE? - just get around other players as quickly and easily as possible, screw the action and the deed This option is good if you don't want to make an entirely new character, are flexible about playing PvP or PvE, and want to get involved with active players with the least amount of hassle. From Chaos, you do have the option to switch to a PvE island - take a look at the Southern Freedom Isles and poke around the SFI subforums to see if any seem active and/or interesting to you & your friend. Even if you do not have a boat of your own, it is possible to ask around in-game, or on forums, and arrange transport with a kindly soul who owns a boat. You would be disbanding the settlement on Chaos and starting anew on a different island - but you would be able to join an active village or make a new settlement in an active neighborhood basically right away. Hey, Big Spender!... slow down. I can appreciate that many, many MMOs and games these days are pay-to-win. And even if they aren't pay-to-win, cash shops abound and are basically the normal thing these days. Wurm is not that kind of game!! For the future, please do yourself a favor and wait to earn these sorts of items and perks without dropping quite so much RL money on them. Many of these items you've purchased are optional, or intended as rewards for playing this game for years and years. A new character is not expected to have top QL equipment, or a Rod of Transmutation, or a Farwalker stone. These things are considered major Quality of Life Perks, earned by long-time players who have first done things "the hard way" and are ready for a little reward to make things easier and nicer. Spirit templars are a smart investment for a deed....if you can afford them! Having a nice, fat balance in your coffers for upkeep and resizes, etc - that's optional. That's a goal to work towards. Your spending decisions are your own responsibility, but we're invested as a community in helping each other make wise decisions & keep the game enjoyable for everyone! In the future, consider asking around for advice and assistance before making in-game purchases that might be a little overkill or otherwise unnecessary. Also, as a play tip.... you will earn greater skill gain from improving a low QL item, than with using a high QL to directly craft and harvest items that are high QL to begin with. It is very common for high level, long time players to have a full set of low QL tools, resources, and crafting materials - in order to craft Low & imp High. (Imp = improve). Imping is a time honored Wurm tradition, the best activity for skill gain, and means that low QL materials and resources will never be "under level" and therefore useless, like in other games. I genuinely hope that some of this information helps you get a "fresh start" on your Wurm experience. ~ Amata, Lady of Heartsease Vale, Independence 💜

While I agree this would be a lovely QoL tweak (and here is my +1).... just as a helpful fyi - I currently use multiple measuring jugs, each one renamed with the volume it is set to. I very rarely change the volume on any of the jugs ... and if I do change the volume, I do not rename the jug - instead I make sure to set the jug back to it's named volume setting when i am done cooking. So I have a set of static volume measuring cups (like in real life). Here's my 1kg measuring jug; here's my 100g measuring jug; etc. Collect a full set. Set their volumes & names once. Carry on.

I have definitely discovered that it is very hard to advocate for something that I, myself, don't really want. Do I think that "just don't talk about this topic" is a good idea? No. Do I think that forms of limitations or gatekeeping on the free flow of speech / ideas is a good idea? No. Do I even want to limit political topics, in general discourse? No. Do I still think that "add current political / sensitive social issues" to the enumerated list of touchy subjects might be the best idea I've seen so far.... *sigh* yeah. I'm open to other ideas... this is merely the best I've come up with so far. Wish it was better.

Pictures of things under the cut

If I had my way, it would be possible to build a fence or wall using an optional X amount of sprouts in addition to the normal required materials. This would cause the fence or wall to be built with a "plant covered" art asset - the fence or wall appears as normal, but with an amount of the plant type growing on / growing over it. Ivy climbing walls. Fences with roses entwined on the posts and rails. Build a stone wall with 5 moss added into the materials? ... moss covered stones. Add in 5 lavender sprouts to the mats required for a wooden wall & you've got a barn with lavender edging. Anyway, that's just my pie-in-the-sky dream. I think a lot can be done without needing to create entirely new objects or structures... just add variety to the possible visuals for the things we already have. (I'm running on the assumption here that art assets & textures are easier/faster to implement than designing an entirely new object from the ground up.)

YEASSSSSSSSSSSSSS would like to see hedges that can be enchanted (or something) to stay at current height also would very much like to see... ivy hedges craftable from ivy seedlings actual lavender hedge/hedgerow move "lavender plantation" to the flower planter box category allow other flower box options from rose, oleander, camelia, ivy? harvestable hedges?