Amata

Just to throw my 2 irons in there - It would be very nice if "themed" containers provided some (small?) reduction in decay of items that match the theme. Call it a theming bonus or whatever. Call it nothing at all, I don't care... but If I put my tools in a tool rack, or tool box - one of the reasons I've store them there is to give an extra little bit of protection from wear & tear, cobwebs, and rust. I don't leave my armor (leather, maille, plate, etc) just laying about - I keep it clean, well oiled, and polished on my armor stand. I put my cloth clothing, hats, and cloaks in my wardrobe. That keeps them neat and tidy, and protects them a little bit from moths and mice. Basically... if a player has gone to the trouble of crafting a specific themed container for each of their various sets of items, tools, and equipment... it's because that player actually gives a fig, and actively wants to keep their stuff well-maintained. Without the incentive of some sort of decay reduction or whatever - you end up with the current status quo: everyone just keeps a coffin by the door.

Okay, here is a quick thought experiment... We are all in a cave / open mine area that is off deed. Just a reminder - because this area is off-deed, there are no overriding permissions. Anyone can go anywhere and anyone can mine anywhere. I have a pile of stuff that is "mine" and I want to protect it from getting taken by other players. I don't have a lot of space or a lot of materials, so I am going to only build 3 sides of the fence and let the rock wall of the cave be the 4th side. X X------- --------- X X |o X X | X X------ ---------- So each X is one tile of rock wall, the dashes are the tiles with my fence on it... and I've used "|o" to show where my gate is positioned in the fence line & I've attached a lock to it. And now I've got a nice, secure area as long as I've set up the permissions on the gate's lock correctly. Unfortunately, we are off-deed. And I didn't think this all the way through. As a reminder - because this area is off-deed, there are no overriding permissions. Anyone can go anywhere and anyone can mine anywhere. When I log on the next day I discover that now my area looks like this: X X------- --------- X X |o X | X ------ --------- And all my stuff is gone. While I was offline, somebody else came and simply mined two tiles of rock - and it opened up a path into my fenced area. Because we're in a cave that is off-deed, anybody can mine whatever tiles they would like. There is absolutely nothing stopping another player from simply removing the entire wall of rock that your fence is up against. So even if this suggestion was allowed. And we could build fences and walls right up against the rocks when we are off-deed... We would ~still~ need to build all 4 walls of any fence or any building to make it secure. And if you are building all 4 sides of your fence - why not just build it 1 tile away from the rock wall? Even if it is just a matter of aesthetics, and it simply looks better to have fences and walls up against the wall of a cavern - if you are off-deed, anyone could come and mine those tiles away anyway to expand the cavern... and then you wouldn't be up against the wall anymore. If you want this level of control of an area - either for security, or for aesthetics, or any other reason you might have - you will need to deed.

I'm only gonna talk about the PC games, not the console games or table top games also goin' on. *deep inhale* Games I am perpetually playing: (Wurm is currently on this list) Banished Grand Ages: Rome My Time at Portia Civilization (currently Civ 6) Stardew Valley Cities: Skylines The Sims (currently Sims 4) Tabletop Simulator Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes To The Moon Goragoa Fable (1, 2, & 3) Playne Viridi [an x-rated adult game I'm not gonna name] [another x-rated adult game, but an open world one this time] Games I am currently playing: Thea: The Awakening Thea 2: The Shattering Dawn of Man Egypt: Old Kingdom Egypt: Predynastic Foundation Endless Legend Armello Craft the World The Guild 3 Kingdoms and Castles Northgard The Universim Among Us Black Desert Online Cyberpunk 2077 Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot Doki Doki Literature Club Portal Crowntakers Games I "paused" playing to focus on Wurm Dark and Light Force of Nature Conan Exiles Neverwinter Guild Wars 2 Final Fantasy XIV The Elder Scrolls Online Tera Terraria ArcheAge Games I recently bought & am about to start playing Craftopia We Were Here Death Stranding Vampyr Animallica Eastshade Equilinox Forebearers Frostpunk The Garden Between Us Godhood Graveyard Keeper House Flipper Kynseed Saelig When the Past was Around Driftland: the magic revival . . . I think that's most of them. I glanced over my Steam library to see if I was forgetting anything obvious, but I didn't bother with Origin or Epic or Uplay, etc. so.... meh? 💜✌🏼️ oh shiz, forgot all the VR stuff, but I hgotta go now - zoom mtg- um beat saver and a guided meditation one basicallly

I really like that you're thinking about this. As it is, Wurm is definitely not a game that a player could set down for an extended break (for whatever reason) and feel like they'd be able to jump right back in later on. Very smart to take a break from all the speculation and brainstorming about player retention, and bring this up. I like addressing the "you're probably about to die" issue. A free summon corpse is good - but what about not ending up as a corpse to begin with? What about giving returning players a free teleport to a spawn point & 24 hours of the newbie buff(s)? Someone coming back into Wurm might have knowledge and some skills, but without assets and resources, that's not going to do much initially. Get 'em to a spawn point or newbie town, give them 24 hours of glowing (they won't have a lantern or candles anymore), let them access the bartender for food/drink for 24 hours. I'd rather be too generous for returning Wurmians than making it rough and have them all feel cut off and hopelessly left behind.

To bring this all back around to the context of the OP..... Option A: Better Manage Player Expectations for the Game As-Is Maintain current business model (Wurm is a subscription game with limited cash shop available) Realign messaging and marketing to eliminate ambiguities, mixed messages, and any inaccurate terminology such as "Free to Play" Increase visibility of simple, direct statements such as "Wurm Online is a subscription based, sandbox MMO life simulator" or "Subscribe to Wurm Online to explore a fantasy based open world entirely player-built," etc. Leave the size and scope of free game content alone... however - Stop using "Free to Play" and F2P as a descriptor of one possible type of Wurm account. Wurm only has subscription accounts. Wurm also has a free in-world game demo available for players who want to "try before you buy." (This is actually a great promo point. Most free game demos are not online inside the actual game world; most free demos are single-player packaged linear chunks of representative game play. Why is WO not capitalizing on this? WO should be shouting from the rooftops that it allows players using a free demo to actually get a head start in-game on what could turn out to be their main character in their actual subscription account?!) Option B: Better Balance for a Truly Hybrid Game Model Expand Free Account access to better reflect industry standards for "Free To Play" content. Free-to-play (F2P) business models are video games that provide players access to a significant portion of their core content, game mechanics, and all aspects of gameplay features like skills, levels, classes, and main plot lines - without requiring payment. Most current F2P games are using an evolved model Free-to-play Plus (F2P+) where the core content is free and game revenue is generated by the use of microtransactions, in-game purchases, and cash shops; in addition to "premium" content such bonus characters, plotlines, missions, gameplay advantage buffs, and various cosmetic / vanity items and objects. Games that specifically allow players to use real world money transactions to purchase items conferring game play advantages or buffs, are typically derided as "Pay to Win" (and we hate them, except for when we're winning). With core game content provided F2P - expand development of microtransactions & cash shop to better reflect industry expectations. Frequently enjoyed microtransactions available to "Premium" subscription & real money players includes cosmetic and vanity items like weapon and armor skins; pets and mounts; bonus multipliers for resource gathering and/or crafting, etc. Marketing and Promotional content need not be altered, as the game structure changed to meet the expectations generated by WO messaging. Option C - All About Property Value (MystLeissa's Suggestion as I Took It) Expand Free Account access to better reflect industry standards for F2P content Realign Premium content around a Land Ownership theme Allow for microtransactions related to the theme, such as increasing land allotment or discounted upkeep rate, extra guards available, etc. "Premium" (subscription) payments would more closely align with Reward Tier systems in popular use today. Maintaining a character (or account) at the Premium Tier unlocks bonuses, buffs, and rewards in keeping with the theme. More "premium tier" accounts in a village results in an increase in the village's allotment or land allocation. Perhaps other rewards include resource gathering or crafting buffs for villagers. Etc. Expand into the Reward Tier system to incentivize maintaining / increasing subscription levels as well as daily / weekly log in activity. Premium tier can be raised to Silver Tier, to Gold Tier, to Glimmersteel Tier, etc. Each rank of the tier system increases or improves on relevant buffs and extra land / village privilege unlocks. Option D through Z: Basically Option C, but with different Themes for Content Unlocked by "Premium" Finnn says "Fashion Sells" skins; cool particle effects applied to weapons, armor, animations; bonus cosmetic / vanity items (unique hairstyles, etc); rare or unique dye packs Everyone Loves Animals vanity pets, mounts, unique saddles or saddle skins, unique vehicles / skins, animal name-change token, bad-trait-remover token, various breeding buffs or bonus multipliers, token enabling you to tame +1 animal, token granting +1 care-for capacity, collars that make a tamed & branded animal behave like a domestic animal (dogs and cats and seals wearing collars no longer have to be tamed and re-tamed to lead, groom, brand/unbrand, breed, etc.) Bonuses & Buffs non-tradable tokens or potions or powders for all the buffs and bonuses! Skill gain multipliers, Quality level buffs, action speed increasers, bonuses to success chance, and tokens of "seeking" (increased chance to harvest specific resource. Example: token of seeking herb, token of seeking flint, token of seeking white-dotted flower (LOL) Also, 30 minute / 1 hour / 5 hour / 12 hour potions to buff combat rating, stamina regen, decrease food and water loss... really, sky's the limit on this one. The Good Life food & drink available from bartender NPCs again. access to bonus furniture and decor items, unlock crafting templates for bonus furniture and decor, unique skins for larders, food bins, ovens, beds. Access to crafting templates for bonus building styles (Roman, "Far East," Aztec / Mayan / Olmec, Celtic, Teutonic, Slavic, Norse/Viking, etc). Access to crafting instructions for a gazebo. Ability to "construct" above-sea-level water tile (for mountainside lakes, private pools, fishin' ponds, etc). [Insert Your Premium Access Here] This got a lot longer than I meant it to be. Again.

If this was a response because of something I said, then please allow me to clarify. I don't have any demands about what specific business model Wurm Online should or could use. As you've said, the people behind the curtain are the ones with the actual data needed to guide that kind of a decision. Whatever business model they think works best for Wurm is more than I could suggest, so yay for their decisions. What I DID say, however, is that no matter what business model this computer game uses, Wurm Online needs to take a serious look at the official webpage, the Steam WO store page, and any other places where Wurm Online is representing itself officially to the public. Right now Wurm Online has an overall public presentation that doubles up on Free-to-Play / "Free" / "Freedom" messaging. Even if a F2P model was an accurate description of the game's economic type once upon a time... "Free to Play" is NOT an appropriate way to shape messaging about Wurm Online in the current game market. Regardless of what any one of us thinks or feels about the modern state of the gaming industry, the common use of tags or labels, and the relative merits of various game business models... The fact is that the gaming industry exists and, like any industry, has developed industry-specific labels and tags that convey well-defined meanings to game consumers. Referring in any way to your game as F2P or F2P+ sets up the basic shape of a new player's expectations. If the game publisher has used those terms carelessly, those players are expecting an experience that they will not have - leading to dissatisfaction with what they do have, and in many cases, new players leaving the game. Thank you for your input, but I do believe you are wrong. I invite you to take a closer look at the official Wurm Online website and help me recall exactly where WO clearly and consistently informs potential new players that the core of the game is a subscription based model. I know that by the time I was done digging up information about Wurm Online, I was aware that I was getting into a subscription based game... but to be honest, I genuinely had trouble retracing the steps I took to go from the Wurm Online main webpage the whole way to that information. I would suggest going to the WO website and performing word searches on each page. Search for "Premium" Search for "Subscription" and Search for "Free" and for "Freedom." You will find an overwhelming number of times free and freedom are discussed, including specifically "Free to Play." On the other hand, in the entire website, you will find 4 occurrences of the word "Premium" and 2 instances of the word "Subscription." I will hint right now that you will not find those instances on any of the primary pages of the website. And when you find them, they will not be used in clear and direct explanations of the "free game demo + subscription game" hybrid model that Wurm Online uses. As for the "tag" (I think you are referring to the way Steam game pages are tagged with searchable keywords).. just as there might be a broader issue with overall messaging on the game's official website... the same broader problem with ambiguous or mixed messages exists on the Steam page too. Only, if I recall correctly, shortly after Steam launch there was a strong negative reaction by players being introduced to WO for the first time specifically because of this lack of clarity. I believe this led directly to WO adding or amending the Steam page messaging to include specific, clear statements about what comes free in the game, and what a paid account unlocks. I took a little time with the website and the store page on Steam, and noted the messaging elements shaping the incoming player's expectations about the game. I've got a folder of screenshots I'd be happy to share with anyone who wants to see them.

I don't know about balance or about economic models or profit margins... What I do know is that, as a gamer, the single biggest thing that turns me off from a game is when the existence of a paid or premium game tier causes the free (or base) game elements to be lessened. Call me crazy, but ... I don't want to play a game that starts players in a "free" deficit and allows paid players to get up to the ground floor. Talk about casting the devs and publishers as money-grubbing microtransaction pay-to-win villains. Whether the game is pay-to-play, free-to-play, subscription, or free-to-play + paid options, all players should start on the same ground floor, and premium content should be optional upper floors. The VIP areas. That's what makes it "premium." The free level of game play should involve player access to ALL core game mechanics, levels / zones, and playable content. If I opt into higher, paid / premium tiers - I want those to be ADDITIVE. I'm looking for access to stronger buffs, to larger deed sizes (first 11x11 tiles free?), or discounts on upkeep, to vanity options like skins, costumes/outfits, vanity pets, access to an extra material set or housing/decorative accessories (expanded decor crafting catalog? ability to build structures with a non-European architectural style?) Basically - if you market and offer a game as "free to play" ... then the base game & core mechanics should actually be free to play. I want real money unconnected from making the basic game and core mechanics accessible (there lies pay-to-win BS).... I want people who pay money for "premium" to be playing the same game as free players - but with the opportunity to be (excuse the expression) more badass. Games that offer full base content and paid extras and buffs typically end up with people actually wanting to pay. More shinies! More awesome looking options! Weapon skins! Adorable vanity pets! A "far East" architecture style pack! Things I crave and can see other players showing off.... gimmie gimmie gimmie!! But I don't enjoy paying for those things at the expense of other players getting shafted unless they pay too. Screwing players because they can't always afford to spring for premium = bad Turning paid premium into additive / vanity content, instead of "unlocking" core mechanics = good. If Wurm wants to continue marketing as a "free to play + premium options" game, this is what the gaming industry has come to expect from that economic model. As I see it, Wurm Online can either make the necessary changes to get on this properly.... OR ... Wurm Online needs to stop blowing smoke, and market the game as a subscription based game, with occasional "free weekends" or "two weeks of free play!" promotions. And subscription sales - "this weekend only - purchase the 1-year WO sub, and you can lock in this discounted rate for the next 12 months!" or whatever the subscription model games are always doing. (this has really been bothering me) ~ Lady Amata 💜🌱✌🏼️

Yay, I have now joined the club of the diseased! Yesterday I walked toward the back of my large cart, opened the cart to access the inventory, and got sick. [20:29:42] You cut a seedling from the trellis. [20:30:20] You leave the aged fat Raindance '5M + Healthy'. [20:30:20] You hear bees, maybe you are getting close to a hive. [20:30:40] You scratch yourself. What did you catch now? and then..... [20:44:31] You get a bucket. [20:44:40] You drop a bucket. [20:44:42] You feel a lot better now as your disease is gone. [20:44:44] You get a bucket. [20:44:55] You drop a bucket. fun times. ya know, it wouldn't be half so bad if player disease was an actual mechanic. If I get sick, the first thing I do is drink some herbal tea and stay hydrated... Elderberry (berries and flowers) mixed in foods and tinctures helps buff the immune system... Wrap up in a blanket, get extra rest, double down on chicken noodle soup... But in Wurn, there's absolutely nothing a player can do to help defeat a disease. Either make player disease a game mechanic players can interact with.... or get rid of it.

I guess I get to be a necromancer and raise this post, 7 years dead..... RISE POST! RISE & BRANDISH YOUR POWER!!! *cough* Okay, enough RP out of me for one day. Hats. Lots and lots and lots of posts in the Suggestion forum ask for clothing + hats. This was the first one I found that was dedicated specifically to asking for hats. (Hats, plural. The multiple different posts all asking particularly for a Pirate Hat also exist). I was a tiny bit disappointed when many of these comments were a tad bit tongue in cheek. Oh well. I would like to address the distinct lack of snoods. Snoods and veils and wimples and coronets. The men seem to be draggin' along with armor helms and woolen caps and adventurer's hats. (And the rest of the genders, too, to be honest).... But the long-haired princesses, or the modest matrons? Behold: the wonderful, wacky world of Medieval Ladies' Millinery I even threw a couple of men's hats in there too, for y'all masculine types. And let's not forget that while the royalty and wealthy went super insane over headgear.... the struggling nobles, merchants, and peasants definitely wore hats, too. I'd love to see what sort of hattery for any gender everyone would like to see most!!!

my only caution with a side braid is a warning about clipping. a side braid of any sort always causes a headache for devs and art design - how to make the braid sit nicely on the shoulder, but over the clothing, no matter what armor or accessories (cloaks, hats, hoods?) the player equips. Talk about a nightmare - still haven't seen any games pull this miracle off (yet). braid diversity is awesome - bring on those crown braids, the circlet braids, the multi-strand braids, the braided buns, yes yes yes yes.... just ... be a tiny bit careful about potential clipping. as for the "feisty femmes" - don't forget the tousled pageboy, for when you want your look to say, "I didn't want to marry that man my father demanded, so I cut off my hair to pretend to be a boy and become a knight's squire. And I'm definitely not going to end up falling in love with my knight, absolutely not." ya know, like this -

I'm here to say, my name is Amata and I support this suggestion. I'd like to be able to make a perms group called "Priests" - and grant divine spell perms to the priests that I know and trust. I want a group called "Merchants" that will allow anyone added to that role to have perms to place NPC, load and unload, and other such perms as might be needed by those trusted folk who come round with deliveries, or want to set up a merchant in my little town-square area, or i've hired to transport/deliver goods I've sold, etc. Bonus points if the group roles could show up on the menus for gate, door, building perms just like "citizen" and "trusted friends" do, not just a user-defined role in the role management menu.

Wait, what? Okay, first - thank you to everyone posting here with their rifting experiences. There have been a TON of one sentence here, one throw away comment there, that I HAD NO IDEA. Granted, I know I needed to do more research, but I went into my first rift knowing basically NONE of this stuff. I already have a laundry list of things to know / things to do differently... I'm a healer-type (as many already know) - so my goals at the end of the day are typically focused on being a support member of a team. It 100% absolutely NEVER occurred to me that I would stand around away from the combat protected behind a fence, when my team was in active combat. How are you supposed to heal a person if you're not standing at their shoulder on the battlefield? (how could you sleep at night knowing that you stayed in safety while your companions put themselves at risk of death??) And bandages don't register participation? ... You mean to tell me that the points I scored at that rift only came from the little bit of melee fighting I did to help down stuff, between running around trying to help heal?? I just figured it was because I was bandage-healing instead of spell-healing, so it was taking an enormous amount of time to select wounds to heal bc I'm super slow with menus (even when abilities, themselves, are on hotkeys) - and I'm utter rubbish at manual targeting in games that use action combat systems (instead of auto-target or tab target or using smart heals). .... but still, all that can be labeled "now you know" and hand-waved aside.... but I'm still utterly flabbergasted at the idea of healers waiting for the wounded to come back to them, instead of the able-bodied healers occupying the mid-to-back line of combat so they can run *forward* to their injured teammates, or just constantly stay within spell range to sling heals throughout the battles. Can a fellow healer-type please explain Wurm's healing modality to me? (In the meantime, Imma go dig into the wurmpedia to look into the finer details I'd only glanced over prior to now)

All y'all are so cute. with your favorite lil' gods. Awwww. Fo. The correct answer is Fo. Everyone who answered Fo above, knows what's what. Okay, seriously tho... I am actually fairly equal-minded about all 4 of 'em (that's right, I said 4). Without any sort of real universal constants that imbue arbitrary mortal concepts (Justice. Good. Bad. Evil. Right. Wrong. etc)... the bottom line is that gods are gods, and pretty much equal in cosmic terms. Which means the only way to make any kind of judgement calls about the values, principles, or ideologies these gods inspire is to look at the actions of their adherents and clergy. The following remarks and conclusions are ONLY about life inside the Wurm universe. ONLY WURM. Okay? Soooooo.... The very worst, most awful player I know routinely endorses the idea "Kill the gods!" - so that's a strike against being atheist in the Wurm universe. The most awful thing I've seen done to community / public space was perpetrated by a militant follower of Magranon - sorry Mags, but deeding over a public resource AND destroying a much loved Highway AND keeping KoS active for everybody is just one step too far. We're trying to have a community here; get your followers in line! The most active followers feel like a tie for me. On one hand, on my specific home server, Libila's clergy are routinely holding sermons for her followers. All. The. Time. ... but, I actually know more people who are followers of Vynora. I see Vynora altars literally everywhere. Vyn followers are all over chat talking about following Vyn. So, both Ladies seem to inspire loyal and socially-inclined, active but not hostile adherents That's a big thumbs up there! Finally, again on my home server, the clergy in the most demand are the priests of Fo. Everybody wants or needs services from a Fo priest or follower basically every single day. Almost as much as people want Path of Love to come enchant their grass. True, dedicated followers of Fo seem like a very precious and highly valued rarity. Like a Middlemist Red Camellia.

I liked that recently 'bury corpse' got some attention for on-deed situations.... I'm not entirely thrilled with the current solution - linking 'bury' permission with 'terraform' permission. There's a big difference between wanting to allow a random passer-by to be able to butcher & bury the angry bear that just attacked them.... and allowing a random stranger the permission to terraform any tiles not behind fences and walls. My thought was pretty direct - "huh, I wonder why they didn't just make a check box for bury perms alone" IF there is some coding or dev issue with doing this simple fix.... someone else has already thought of "Option B" - which would take bury perms and attach them to an extant perm that makes a little more sense... That's all I got 💜🌱✌🏼️

I've been lucky so far - definitely noticed an increase in disease among neighbors, but I've been able to dodge the bullet.... But I have noticed my animals getting sick and staying sick, and my deed is not over crowded by ratio. so maybe for me it's just a matter of time until I catch it too!!

For what it's worth... it might be a good time for official Wurm stuff to lean in on the secular aspects available, if only as a way to add to Wurm's forward progression as a game (and hopefully, eventually, a game with a wide market and large popularity). Personally I give a big ol' shrug of easygoing when things like this pop up in various games - but I also know that not everyone out there has a positive experience due to religion-centered strife for one reason or another. So while I have the freedom to be casual and cool about whatever... not everyone is as lucky. In light of that fact.... here are a couple points of suggestion, written here simply for possible future consideration. - the current item of decor is called "Christmas tree" ... it could just as easily be named with adjectives instead of a proper noun - such as "festive tree" or "decorated tree." As the item has a gift-giving function, it remains pretty obviously a Christmas tree for those who celebrate Christmas - but no longer specifically excludes the possibility of it being something else in the mind of someone else. - incorporate future objects and/or creatures that lean into folk lore and legends enjoyed by many people world-wide "just for fun" instead of as a component of religious celebration... for example, a unique enemy Krampus that spawns and runs around during the IRL winter season. There is room for a Santa type that plays into either myth & lore (A Holly King or Lord of Misrule or Winter Lord would do) - or secular commercialization (the Coca-Cola version of Santa, instead of the St Nick / religious version found in many Christian European nations). Secular decorations available only for the winter holiday season can include evergreen garlands, a mistletoe item that causes players on the same tile to perform the "kiss" emote, festive decor that incorporates or includes blue & silver color options alongside the red & green & gold options. Anything having to do with reindeer, especially the red-nosed variety. - Nearly everyone on earth celebrates something during the winter time that has to do with lights - fairy lights, candle light, bonfires, etc. A craftable / burnable Yule Log would be in keeping with this; along with anything else we can dream up that can be burned for fun and giggles. - there is a real astronomical occurrence during the holiday season that plays into themes of light coming to the world / banishing darkness, etc - and although some communities ascribe religious significance to the event, in truth, it occurs every year whether people believe in it or not... that is, the Winter Solstice. Anything - anything at all - having to do with the solstice has the bonus of being both factually secular and completely in keeping with the ideological themes of many of the otherwise specifically religious celebrations of this season. TLDR: there is infinite space in the universe - allowing space for others does not actually take away from the space you already have for yourself. Highlight the things that are held in common and/or secular in future iterations & share the space with all Wurmians alike 💜✌🏼️🌱

... not a fan of kilts? curious about this response, too. is it a look thing? or a game mechanic thing (like, how to implement "apron") ?

Sorry, didn't mean offense -- meant what I said in the context of someone else saying. "let's not name it after any deed" - and I wanted to point out that the Valyrian name was not just "some deed" but an obviously important one that has done much work for the development of the area. Deeds that don't really work with the land in a bigger, more public way, tend to be the transient ones... the deeds that organize (and name) community projects and public works are the ones that stick around & leave their mark - and should be honored for their contributions. Is all.

Exactly. If some mechanism is needed for these less patient players, then being able to ignore the other player for several hours should solve any problem. But it should work in a way that it can be turned on/off by the individual player so as not to centralize the possibility of censorship on any player or any topic. Okay, I'll need to go look this up in greater detail.... but the other day, while looking through the list of commands available in game (for some unrelated reason) ... I came across a command that I had never seen or heard of before... /snipe And if any older players or mods or GMs or gods want to briefly chime in solely for the purpose of an official explanation of the "/snipe" command - I would appreciate the clarification. But, as far as I can tell... the /snipe command functioned basically as a "vote-to-mute" for a community channel. If someone was being particularly obnoxious or whatever, individual players could use the snipe command to add to a hidden "mute" tally - once that tally crossed a certain threshold (enough individual community members cast their own snipe commands) - the "sniped" player was muted. Like social sanctions. Self-moderating. I don't believe the command works anymore, and I don't know anything else about it. Maybe it was something that Wurm tried for a while and it was a disaster? Maybe it was an idea that could never get the program code to work properly? No idea. But I agree that I would much prefer decentralized, context-relative, "power to the people" solutions instead of rules, regulations, and enforcement. If anyone else has any ideas that are decentralized, context-relative, and community centered, I would be happy to listen & brainstorm those all day long!!

I adore the way that this reply seems to ring with optimism and goodwill. I really do. I find it uplifting and refreshing! I find that, as I read this, I want it to be true to life. This is the future I want - not just in Wurm, but basically everywhere. That discussion WAS fantastic and I really loved it too. As much as the reminder of that conversation makes me very happy to think about, I also have one point of consideration that I would like to be considered.... Is this the type of moderation interaction you have seen & experienced in reality in game?

I am honestly curious, as a matter of personal view, is this a summary of your philosophy regarding any / all sets of rules? As a quick disclaimer - I am musing here beyond the scope of the actual topic being discussed in this thread. In America, our nation's founders suggested that one reason to develop a set of rules (laws) was "to promote the general welfare." This, and a few other key phrases that make a nice little schoolhouse song, are written into the US Constitution as the underlying rationale for having any mutually agreed upon laws, at all. In the current climate, I have actually found myself musing on this, and the other key phrases, and questioning which are personal priorities; which are ideals that might be outdated; which have been emphasised historically; and so on. Other than broadly thinking about what it means to "promote the general welfare" - I unfortunately have not arrived at any profound revelations or that "perfect system that will solve every problem." Like you, I am ambivalent about whether such a system even exists - and believe that if one does, it is either to be found in the ordered patterns of Nature, or somewhere completely abstracted - like higher mathematics or theoretical physics, or some such place. In any event - I would like to know more about your thoughts, not only these general thoughts on sets of rules - but also as it pertains to the actual topic I presented for consideration.

Out of curiosity, Trickster, ... how would you give answer to the question of "censorship" ?

This honestly means a lot to me. I've seen a bit on the forums and in chat recently about "unwritten rules" and "common courtesy" and the like. I've also had any number of PMs lately with a wide variety of Wurm players who took the opportunity to reveal to me, their mental health status. Any number of Wurm players may be exactly the sort of person who, through no fault of their own, struggle to understand and relate to "unwritten rules" and "social conventions" and "common courtesies." As others have noted in various responses on this topic so far, a player cannot expect that other Wurm players share the same concepts of courtesy or toxicity in interpersonal interactions. All we have to help put us all on the same page are the Rules As Written. Players might voluntarily extend to each other niceties that are unwritten or not otherwise specified. That's nice. It is optional, however, and while it might earn a bit of extra esteem among your neighbors, those Wurm players who do not spend time with "niceties" are not uncourteous, they are not to be considered rude - they are simply our Wurm neighbors with direct and businesslike manner. But navigating social interplay in a larger community is trivial compared to when the misunderstandings really begin. I truly believe that it is, to some extent, necessary for moderators to have reasonable amounts of discretionary power - at very least, so a moderator is empowered to read a room; to respond based on context as well as black & white "facts"... But when mods step in to break up a discussion, or act to mute a player, based on something that is not in the Rules As Written - they (and we) are immediately in the no man's land of a judgement call. Did the mod read the room correctly? Was there actually a problem going on? The best analogy I can think of right now is that when young children are playing in the backyard, it is extremely hard to know what is playful roughhousing - and what is bullying that needs intervention. I think "reasonable amounts" of discretionary power can be (should be?) limited when possible. One way to do this is to add areas of known instability into the rule set from the start.

What do you see as the extent of "we may as well ban everything that could offend anyone in any way." If you are not implying a slippery slope, can you please clarify what you mean by this? Also I'm not sure you answered the previous question I had about this specific point: I would like to better understand the rationale behind this discussion point - Can you elaborate how it is reasonable to expect that adding "politics" to the enumerated list will ultimately arrive at a need to ban every topic with the possibility of offense? Your most recent response had a whole lot to unpack there. I'm still picking through aspects of it, but overall, I got the impression that the core elements were a nearly identical repetition of your previous response. Maybe you missed it - but I did go through your earlier reply & had a few specific questions or clarifications I would love to hear you address. your syntax. Your phrasing was unclear and I would like you to please clarify your pronouns, among other things. This is a solid point. Trolls gonna troll. ... on the other hand, if I know that a troll is comin' to attack me, I would rather that the troll have a fishing pole equipped than a huge shod club. Why allow a troll easy access to things that can actually cause serious wounds? Haters gonna hate; trolls gonna troll - but I don't go around handing out ammo, because some people do not grasp the concept of contextual relativity. ... clearly. Although I feel as though I've spent the last 3 pages working with others to help define and identify which areas of concern are problematic, and for what reason.... I also feel that as many times as you repeat this question, I ought to have a ready answer. So today, here is what I was considering: Why add "politics" to the enumerated list? Because of the balance of probability standard. I am curious what you meant to suggest by this ?

But are they, tho? If you lower expectations, a community will always disappoint. If you raise the bar, you have the chance of the community rising above expectations. ... maybe? One bais that I must acknowledge is that I was raised in high-expectation type communities, and shoved in among peers and colleagues that constantly vied to exceed expectations by the greatest amount possible. That's simply what I am used to - and it is good to remember that other people have other experiences of what a community of people might be capable of or not. This honestly sounds entirely reasonable to me. IMO - topics should not be banned unless specifically necessary due to laws for "family friendly" game ratings. And that specific underlying reason should be clearly written in black and white in the game rules. Any other topic under the sun should be left free for the community to explore if they want to. You are correct that everything above and beyond this adds layers of nuance - and many scenarios end up relyant on player's experiences and personal lives and beliefs and opinions. At this point in time, I don't think I care anymore about how mods handle trolling - at this point, I just care that mods are actually able to identify trolling. If I were to go back in time and write this post again, I would take greater care in the initial post to differentiate between Wurmians having conversations of all sorts with different opinions... and trolling / harassment in chat. Looking back, I feel like my original post was a bit of a tangle of threads, but feedback and discussion here has helped straighten out & separate the bits of string from each other. One loose thread is a somewhat straight-forward question: the game Rules have an enumerated list of traditionally touchy topics to avoid, why is political topics not part of this list? Another bit of string might be: Beyond what might be legally necessary to retain a "family friendly" game rating, is it even appropriate for Wurm to be listing topics banned from discussion? The last bit that I feel has been unwound goes something like: having a list of disallowed topic content has an unintended effect of muddying the waters for moderators trying to distinguish between players having engaging discussions and players trolling and/or harassing each other. Even if no topics of conversation were banned, Wurm would still have a game Rule against trolling and a Rule against harassment. Those rules need to be clarified, and then enforced with some level of consistency, please. I have been thinking about this bit a lot. There is much content in Wurm that is proudly advertised as "player-driven" and "player-generated".... I keep thinking that if "everyone does" (have a right inside Wurm) - that ought to mean that everyone is also able to have a hand in judgement and reparations. As you mention, a moderator is merely a judge who can state with authority whether something is or is not against a Rule. And following this, most (all?) Wurmians can name at least 1 moment where "technically, no rule was broken" but the community involved more or less all agree that something wrong was done, even if it wasn't against the Rules. If it truly is down to the individual person(s) to deal with it, and /ignore is the weapon we are given - we are basically saying that when we're in Wurm and there's a troll lurking around the neighborhood, don't attack it or anything, just ignore that it's there, and ... what, exactly? Say Mr Troll please stop hitting me with that rough shod club? No, in Wurm we mount our horse and kill the troll. With neighbors and guards if need be. But in chat and in the forums? I don't think we have an equivalent action at our disposal. And if we try to give as good as we get, we tend to get warned & muted too. Yeah. well, yes to this. Pretty much all of this. There's a lot of things that I've been reflecting on from the responses to this topic. And this specific section right here tells me that I miscommunicated in my first post. I was not very clear or precise, or I had too many aspects layered up to effectively discuss any one individually. But this is not the first (and I suspect not the last) response that rests on a premise that even with a political topic, the situation in question is a conversation being held in good faith. And that the interpersonal conflict arises from simply not liking the trend or tone or opinions being voiced. Whereas, I've been trying this whole time to talk about something entirely different. So that's on me, everyone. It was my job in the first post to clearly articulate the premise, the problem, and suggest one possible solution. And I clearly failed in that regard. The other thing that I have learned from the general tone and content of various responses, is that I had just assumed that all islands had chat channel content roughly equivalent to the chat channel content I've been seeing since joining Wurm. One trend I've picked up from responses is a general underestimation of the impact of the problematic interactions. All I can say in the forums at this time is that I wouldn't make a post about everyday conversations that simply hurt some feelings when different opinions were expressed. Taken together, this suggests to me that I probably overestimated the spread of this sort of behavior and pervasiveness in the broader Wurm community. I observed a situation where the few dominated and alienated the many - and when questioned, the many replied, "its better to just give up now; we've tried to address this issue but nothing has worked. nobody likes it, but we've got nothing else we can do. you'll get used to it eventually." Generally a community with this kind of response is due to a "there's just too many of 'em, Cap'n" situation; so I had thought it implied that what I was seeing was fairly standard for the Wurm community no matter what island you were on or what subforum you were visiting. So if I've been overestimating the spread of trolls and toxic dumps in Wurm, I apologise and I am, frankly, a bit relieved. You are intelligent and willing to interact, and challenge me... I am genuinely curious - If Mr Insane is on the main chat channel for your server every day, spouting off and trying to stir up contention and drama; what methods do you use to maintain interactions with the others on your island, while also avoiding ever using the main chat channel?