Arishok

For me, a sandbox isn't about what I currently can do, but what I COULD do. As long as that marker keeps moving forward, then so do I. You mentioned picking Vynora and PoK for skill gain. I originally started down that path for Vynora for skill gain buff, but opted for PoL for the refresh. Food was a major obstacle when I started. I am now a Paaweelr priest. I chose that during the free priest switch because it allowed me to do the things I enjoyed, and had ENOUGH of the spells I eventually wanted to get. I have a hunch this is in line with the decisions many players will make as they plan their characters. I see players typically fall in to three "main" categories: Deeder/Crafter, Farmer/Rancher, and Fighter/Adventurer. Granted this is a limited view, but it feels about right. As a sandbox we can move from one to the other with ease, but I suspect the choices we make regarding religion/meditation generally reflect a preference to one of those categories. I strongly dislike the idea of classes in Wurm, and general descriptions like this is meant to be a broad summary. Then as I try to understand how religion works in Wurm culture, I see the parallels (I presume was intentional): Magranon - Fighter/Adventurer - Body Vynora - Deeder/Crafter - Mind Fo - Farmer/Rancher - Soul Libila as the up-ender, the defiler. I had wondered if the decision to bring her to Freedom Isles was a - "well, we cant see why not" - or part of a larger plan that has not been finalized yet. She seems the closest thing to conflict in religion, but apparently has little effect at this point. If I was to suggest a change there, it would be to punctuate those alignments better, but I would encourage missions to adjust accordingly. There are many examples others have given to mission fixes, so I can spare that here. I am fascinated by the mechanic of letting prayers drive global spells, and even the "power" of gods in game. I would like to see it have a greater effect, but only through the choices players make. Then enter player gods. I was quite interested in this gameplay mechanic. Sorting out how it fits in is something different. In a polytheistic society, locking one self to only one god seems counterintuitive. As demigods, it would open up more options, but that is not how it plays out. What if players followed one of the main four gods, but could readily choose to pray, sacrifice, or finish missions for a demigod - thus fueling their power - for another end result. Let us say that Paaweelr is the demigod of Harvest, and by sacrificing or praying I increase likelihood of affecting butchered products, or farming harvest quantities for a short time, or that Gary is the demigod of War, and end result might be in increase in stamina regeneration or an added CR level. These are random and not very well thought out. The point being, a unique role that supports depth and added effects for players otherwise unbothered by some other god. Open up the pantheon for more immersive gameplay. The fact that the player gods themselves seem to not be in game, or otherwise play no active role is disappointing. I believe the player Gary, and Smeagain are active? I am honestly not sure. For the others, I am completely oblivious. So, player gods that are not in game, or choose to abdicate - perhaps their roles could be challenged? Current mechanics would not allow for that, but opening that up might keep that part of Wurm active and fluid. In conclusion, religion feels rigid, and dispassionate in Wurm, but it is built on some amazing and original game play mechanics. It feels more whittled down than molded. There very well may be nothing to glean from this, but it does not keep it from engaging my imagination. I thank you again for your comments.

Thank you. Although you certainly answered why certain things are the way they are... I believe your answers support the question - but why do they persist this way? I wonder how many players over all meditate each day. Keep a rug on them, on their special tile... check the timer... etc. And do this EVERY day as they go about their whatever business. And probably never really stop. It is ingrained. The results are rather lackluster compared to the time and subsequent power of a priest - even without sermons. But what if it was a “religion” of its own? The paths choose your destiny. Conflict of choice of established religion or oneness with the world. Being at odds with the gods - but with modified abilities - a strong choice in its own right. Adding to that, as you explained, sorcery is a cheat card for PvP. Why exactly do these still exist as a requirement rather than a catalyst for PvP? If suddenly a Priest if “forbidden” to weld a weapon - but not spells - how would that change PvP? My guess would be to avoid creating “classes” this could be argued against. But if WL/BL conflict was stirred, Sorcerers were persecuted by the gods, and meditation was an option to avoid all of that... what would Wurm look like? As a result we have a hybrid - A spell casting priest/sorcerer/knight or bust. I understand this is the meta - and people don't fight much anymore. I appreciate the explanation of the monuments. From my skill level they are... monumental. With resources and skill they are probably quite mundane. From what I can tell though, even the smallest hint of an advantage is latched upon by players. So it wouldn't take much.

Spurred by a global discussion regarding depth vs complexity in Wurm, I decided to explore my thoughts on religion in Wurm. This will read like a suggestion and idea, but is genuinely a thought exercise in how we view and use religion in Wurm. I hope members of the Wurm team and other fellow players might engage. I am detached from religion in Wurm. It feels simply like a min-max efficiency decision, and lacks conflict. This was not what I expected when I started playing. I am detached from missions, the chess match on Valrei, or even the god my character is a priest of. Wurm is a polytheistic culture, however, the choices feel too rigid. Too numerous, yet too homogeneous. It is displayed as a pantheon, but in practice works as separate faiths with minor differences. I feel this conflict is confusing rather than favorable. Rhetorically... How is it that the gods are not actively jealous of one another's followers? Why is meditation not blasphemous? Would the gods not like mortals gaining significant power from within and not through their worship? How could that be explored and exploited for emergent gameplay? And what of sorcery? Would it not be a path of the anti religion? Wouldn’t sorcerers and priests be in idealogical and real conflict? Sorcerers seeking freedom in their arts, and priests seeking to subdue them? What if a WL god defected and the balance of power shifted? Would the gates of Valrei part for the open conflict among followers, priests, champions and demigods in the ongoing fight for power? More directly... How is religion as represented in game today resemble the original intent? Is religion due for an overhaul, or is fine as is but just needs a few “mechanics” tweaks? For PvP, what if the gods decreed that no priest shall weld a weapon against another human? Why aren’t monuments a source of persistent or residual power? Something to pilgrim to, defend or maintain? Your thoughts?

Leading one additional creature with a cart or wagon would be useful. I’d like the idea of public hitching posts that others couldn't just walk up and take a creature. Although how often that function would be used by strangers would be rare Id wager. Removing tamed common draft animals and livestock from fighting or drawing aggro first would be a huge improvement. I like the hitching post for sorting out creatures before loading in to cages, or for my temporary campsite when rounding creatures up. Saves from making roundpole pens. I can fit a post, wagon, large cart and two cages in an unruned corbita. But only in that exact order. Not even room for a seed after that. How much space a post fills up was surprising. But then again, thats a lot of large things to cram in such a small boat.

A mirror.

In Nov 2011, on Indy - there was an average of 1400 premium players, and an average of 242 online. There was also an average of 20k creatures. Today, there is an average of 380 premiums, with 56 online, and 29k creatures. So from approximately 80 creatures per players online to over 500 per player online today. Half that for approximation of hostile creatures. I distinctly remember wanting to quit MANY times over not being able to move or skill up due to injuries and death. Not being able to heal or eat - thus not skilling - not getting ore or cotton or healing covers - and failing many times to heal - just making it worse. This was 3 years ago. Meanwhile in havens, a new player - who has been very active for many weeks - was ashamed he was running from a wildcat. once you reach 20-30s in several skills the games learning curve and difficulty suddenly drop off. Until then, it can be one tough assed mountain to climb. I think there is a great deal to consider in the experiences of a new player today vs yesteryear.

Lmfao, such evil I love it for the cruelty. Hate it cause, well... yeah.

The more never-premed players are allowed to do, then the less need any premium players have for other players. This is an MMO. Society is a part if it. I started the game and knew I wanted to be a wanderer. Getting the ML to ride a cart was literally just a result of building. What I felt at the time was a necessity. Getting the coin to premium up the first time was just a matter of playing the game. Killing and digging. Was quite simple and didn't require much effort. And if the traders have coin, it is even quicker. if your economic situation is that in game silver is a substantial amount of money - then selling silver might be a better plan! Getting magical coins is not overly difficult. Getting a lot them is what people complain about. when I played eve online, I thought - awesome - I can pay for my premium through my in game effort. It is a long, long grind to achieve that. That made sense, and feels quite similar to Wurm in time and effort. The most annoying thing I had to do to be successful in my wanderer plans was the 23 body strength to load. I grinded digging and woodcuttting for days. It was mind numbing. The result was game changing, however. It allowed me to finally take my efforts with me. I would support a change to that. Being stuck at 20 skill on everything when my premium runs out is enough for me to premium back up when I come back. The failures are enough to frustrate the money out of my pockets. but I am rambling - I support a deeper look at how new players experience the game. But your arguments aren't fleshed out enough for me.

Bingo - all the parts that make it a great game are too disparate. Segregated. then you throw in epic and jackal - further segregation - but is what players seemed to have asked for in one iteration or another. Most suggestions I have seen to bring these elements together suffer from NIMBY from many vocal players.

uh. Yeah I would easily haul goods from one island to another for some ching. Would even get a bigger ship. I like to sail and explore. I don't enjoy spamming 1k of items. I load and unload animals so often it isn't even a chore. Grabbed two bison last week from Xanadu headed to a new settlement on indy for some imp work. Traded a barrel of stew for some iron. I enjoy that ######. Would enjoy hauling goods, relocating people, or capturing critters. Now that I finally realized passengers don't get stam drain - I can skill too. - I would even hunt uniques for a finders fee. PvP aside, no one is “beating” me at this game. There is nothing I “need” in this game but plenty I want. I pay for others time - thats not a loss to me. I concede your point if you are playing a purely economic sandbox - too many ways around to implement truly competitive markets. Devs hands are full throwing in new items that also stimulate the player base and the markets that don't also break the sandbox.

- better trade window - able to filter by category - link all merchants located within deed

Crates and Bulk storage almost feels like I am cheating at the game. I was ecstatic once I discovered how they worked, and grinded the body strength just to load. I live off-deed in a cart crammed into a ship. I make me some billy goat gruff and seal it in a barrel. I can eat for weeks off one barrel. I voluntarily live under the threat of decay. It is how I play, but completely understand that is not how most others play. This is my sandbox. Relative to crops, mining ore is difficult. Digging out a hole in a mountain, searching for the vein you want, discerning the quality, then extraction and transportation. A lot skills involved, and generally a good deal of effort. The finished metals industry is second probably only to rare finds/drops, and enchanting. The effort seems reasonable in that regard, and generally we all accept this! Grinding crops/cooking is much less demanding in comparison, and can be completed with less tools, and danger. It is also one of the first things many players begin doing, and wonder... how can I sell this? We accept that certain harvestables are only available at certain times (maple syrup, fruits, nuts), and even only through lucky finds (rice, cocoa). We even have grapes that only grow in certain hemispheres! But these products are for niche markets. If I understand correctly, certain trees prefer certain biomes, and likewise certain creatures. It is quite difficult to discern that. EVERY tree is everywhere... even all types of creatures seems everywhere - except perhaps for whatever one you are looking for. I have tried to theorize what would happen if you made on-deed farms produce more than off-deed. QL based on skill and tending. Or if you allowed certain crops to produce more in "season" but less (not none) in off season. Or simply had an expiration of several seasons to bulk storage of ALL raw goods. What I keep coming back to... is that SO many other systems would have to change (village sacc, cooking and grinding cooking, etc), and even separating production crops like cotton and wemp, or else you hamstring too many players at once. I really enjoy the theory of virtual economics, but I believe we are so far deep in certain systems - that even small changes to some of them might be catastrophic. add- As far as the middle-man goes, again this me making ###### up, it probably has to do with frequency of sales. If it is more profitable for me to continue producing - then I pay someone else to deliver. If I get a sale once every few weeks - bet I am closing that sale myself!

@Retrograde thanks for feedback. I agree no wurm town is the same - or should be. Nor am I advocating too comfortable a place - the starter towns are night and day in what they offer. Some offer everything, while others are more frustrating than anything. one of the reasons I suggested a better mechanic to understand what deeds offer what - I reasonably know how long a travel might take, and willing to travel out of the way if they have bare minimums of what I might seek. Traveling to starter towns was - enlightening - as many didn't have a single bed, or working facilities. but once they are thrown from havens to these places - how is it received? Is there a retention metric linked to what town new players go to? @crimsonearth Sloping sands is where I just landed. It is what finally spurred me to write this. ill check out the link. Thank you.

You mentioned early game... I just have pristine and chaos starter towns Left to visit - I have seen the others. So I am curious - what is the overall plan or purpose for these towns? is it player developed only? is there a plan to make them consistent?

Mostly, but the most basic melee script is like this: sender and receiver - click mouse to perform swing (it has a brief delay before using again), and the receiver script listens for weapon within a short range. If it hears it, it tells the health script to deduct health points. ridiculously simple and really only is dependent on server lag and ping followed by timing the distance. others are a bit more complicated but is rooted in that system. it really isn't about the skill at all - everyone pretty much knows its a hit or miss system but the popularity and continual events is what interests me. I suppose it is mostly the social aspect that keeps it going. General shared philosophy and just creating our own enjoyment. they typically have choreographed dance performances, followed by some rp in a tavern with some debauchery thrown in. thank you both for your feedback.

I belonged to a scifi second life group that have held weekly tournaments for the last 14 years. They can bring in a handful of visitors or larger gathering of 60+ people. Weapon system used simple player made scripts. Purses are mostly donations from audience, event host, and owners of other “cities”. Mostly for good times, notoriety, and encouraging people to visit their respective cities (to buy from thier merchants). It is common for winner to receive $40-60. Thinking about this made me consider the lack of such events in wurm. I have seen a few forums posts setting events up over the years, and of course I know it is a staple at impalongs, but... nothing continual. They also seem to be rather complicated affairs - at least in writing. So, my question is for players who fought, watched, or set up fights... Beyond the inability to teleport to and from a place - what is the biggest roadblock to setting up simple, routine public fighting tournaments?

Thought it already was...

Allow deep keel ships to be "deed/flag" ships. Only one per character. 1s upkeep. Only decay reduction on interior items. Allows use of bed/forge/oven loaded directly into hold (not nested) and only when moored off-deed or x number of tiles from deed. Respawn point. Allow rowboat to be loaded Allow gates/doors to be rented by hour/day/week/month Permissions can still apply to residents. (eg. allows animal tender to pass unimpeded). Highway rules still apply. on-deed only. landlord deeds adds to upkeep (king's fees) Allow player settlements to appear on in game map Based off of number of citizens, and/or traffic count. Must meet certain criteria (active merchants, highway/port access, available beds, food merchants, altars, specific services) two week cycle to meet or lose qualifications. Voluntary opt-in. Purchasable bartender "food merchant" Linked to a single larder located within x tiles. Can purchase liquid, by volume, from kegs. Make it easier to purchase in game coin (from in-game) in varying increments (not just silver). Improve cost display in Traders, and Merchants. (make the hover over "1s 59c" be the default, and decimal be the tool tip.) Make the trade screen be more painfully obvious of what's going on. Allow vehicles to be marked for sale. Buildable docks. Raise and lower anchor (not carry with you). Must have room in hold. Improve the "full bright" effect for light sources outside of illumination distance. Too subdued in current manifestation. Make ports, towns, and lighthouses vibrant at night at distance. Increase flicker (random intensity changes).

I disagree with removing decay. Raw goods can be stored almost indefinitely, as is. Finished food: we have salt, wraps, lunchbox, and larders. But, it still decays! I believe this is good. I would want raw goods to decay more often in storage. I would rather suggest a purchasable bartender, whose inventory is linked to your larder. Still have to maintain the larder. The bigger issue is getting patrons to visit your place routinely enough to enjoy actually selling said items. Decay would mean less then.

I believe the original intent was for person to person trading - then vendors, then personal merchants, then trade chat, etc... Follow the player's behaviour. The horse/boat/crate stalls are creative, but are they effective? Add a SET FOR SALE command to set a price on SPECIFIC types of items. Start with the "manage permissions" items: Boats, Houses, Carts, etc... - There is a whole lot of cart/boat litter - and plenty of those say "4 Sale-6s", etc. Some of those I would have bought if owner still was online OR if I could have right clicked "BUY", confirm sale, ride off in the sunset.. Creatures are a more delicate issue. To keep from players tagging every wild creatures ass with a for sale sign... add it to gates as "Passage" fee, collect the goods and skedaddle. 18hrs or so... the passage authority resets. Curious how else players would use a passage fee on gates for... Crates: once marked for sale, cannot add or remove items. Player would have to remove the for sale flag, make changes, and add for sale again. Then consider the idea of village stores: Fine Carpentry, Mason, Grocer... Subtle indicator for items that are for sale: change the text color to a universal color. Players can recognize what is for sale based on color of the hover over text. Nothing invasive.

Fair enough, Cheers!

Tricorn is really a win win here.

I agree

I have not been to Jackal. I am absolutely enjoying the general concept of it! Jackal + several other changes being implemented = listening to players. However... Skill level is the most valuable commodity in wurm. Whether its ever cashed out or not. Once I can make something reliably - its value drops considerably for me. I only protect items I cant make myself. I am willing to pay for others skills to make up that gap. So, new adventure awaits, but there is the skill gain issue. No interest in grinding again, I value my time spent already on the only real commodity I have in this game. I get the idea, if they let people in with full skillsets the world would be ablaze of complaints of unfair advantages. Certain people or groups grabbing up skins Or other epic lootz while others struggled etc etc. if there was a set “effective” level for all players, but skill gains would transfer like normal - I would be all over Jackal - surely complaining about something else instead Cheers to devs making Jackal a flexible idea - one that changes as they see fit. That opens up lots of interesting ideas, and failures - but progress nonetheless. I hope that the developers are making content THEY truly enjoy playing, and not just placating to placate.

Then I am a vulture, scum, robber, looter. No this was not me, but dead deed looting is a thing. If it were not, then I would not have survived long enough to enjoy what this game has to offer. I have never stalked a deed, but if I rolled up on one and noticed ANY visual decay, then I pilfer. Thats my code - wont speak for others. Choices are to use real money, churn through the grind, loot, or join a commune. There are limited opportunities otherwise . I have sold nothing, nor do I truly desire to. I would never have stayed if I could not use my real money to purchase gear. The #1 QoL improvement was buying decent armor and a 90ql weapon with LT. Hands down the biggest “skip to easy mode” investment. The rest I pilfer or make myself. I have never deeded, nor intend to, and dead deeds are everywhere. Only thing left at many deeds are secured items. Floor looms are often the last man standing, standing among throngs of long abandoned carts and wagons. Untouchable. Be careful what we wish for. If it is a systemic issue that is affecting the sandbox significantly, then I support change - whatever that is worth. This event seems unfortunate, like falling down a mountain because you weren't paying attention, or unloading cargo on a locked down deed. Distasteful and unfortunate, but I see no crime. Good luck.