sunsvortex

Careful coming to Northern Celeb...Id say that comment wore out your welcome. Couldnt agree more with Laiwyns post. IM not opposed to a boat bridge or a highway going to TD from up here..however. I dont think there is any reason to get anywhere near Fires place.Its easy enough to connect to existing hiways..saves a lot of issues all the way around. IM going here in a few to survey it all...and iirc (as I dont go south much except to the mountains) there is a hiway most of the way to TD. But Ill ride that way to confirm it still exists. Ok after doing a bit of survey - youll want to tak with Cymmy when your around Hermitage, Solitude and or Rain Valley..once he gets you past there..you can go till your near the area of Monestary. From there your looking at maybe 40 to 50 tiles tops (going west) till you can connect to the existing hiway systems that will give access to all of North Central Celeb from Arfen House to Sparta..and there will be no need to go anywhere near Fires place. Once Cymmy gets you past his places..just PM me and Ill get you to the existing hiways for the connection...there really should be no issues with deed owners doing it this way as after Monestary its all uninhabited till you hit the connection point.

Another 80 tiles planted...Farmed each tile 4 times and stopped...getting a minimum of 4 to 7 max 16 from a rare harvest. Looks like they just added +2 to all results and bumped up the chance for a rare action...same setup as the last set of numbers..... Oh well so much for a real market.

Karmaja no longer exisits..there are plenty of hiways in this area though and I can probably get a hiway from the coast to the main stretch of hiways Starting near sparta..allthough i need to check that area again...the area that used to be karamja is locked up hard till you get near arfen house..so basicallty between arfen and sparta is pretty locked up except in a few places. If you want to come in through Sparta it could probably be arranged. One other note..there is a large hiway that runs from arfen to sparta just behind the coastline. there are 2 other hiways connected to it..one runs south..the other runs south and west to the desert. The other hiway running south that goes through Golden Maple has some issues...GM's have said that its not a hiway running through this deed so its locked up. Its possible to build around it though. I also have a request in to Oracle about a specific hiway that would be between Silme Aer and Auorvial (Old Karamja and illiad ridge deeds) If its allowed there will be a coastal entrance there that connects to the main hiways....but this is uncertain atm. Also as far as new players in this area..its pretty hostile up here in the north..even for players that are well prepared. The sheer amount of mobs is the greatest issue. Lots come up here to hunt..and for a good reason. I would caution any new player from wandering around in the north for long..thier corpses litter the area. Locals try and keep the area clear...but after a spawn cycle..the place is pretty rough to say the least.

Never have seen a use for one. I suppose if your traveling a lot someplace to put your horse would be handy..but saddle and branding take care of horse issues....no need for SB while traveling allthough I suppose picking some up is not a bad thing...but doesnt justify cost. There really isnt any impetus to stop at an inn.

Walnut - uses a bucket to harvest instead of scikle, uses the sap harvest sound Oaks - Sprout to mature in a minimum of 3 days..all test oaks were mature in a max of 6 days. 1 test oak is now old..took 8 days. Able to harvest 2 sprouts a day off mature Oaks.

Yes...any ETA on this feature?

It may or may not be an accurate result. Same as with seed planted before 1.1 and after

Do the tweaks take effect immediately on current crops or do we need to replant?

Patch notes say farming was tweaked...Retry..post your numbers

Ok according to patch notes Farming Yields were tweaked...replant and try again...post your numbers.

I dont want it cause it doesnt work.

Correct...100%

No way..thats a pay to win..thats complete BS. I do not have sympathy for players are at the top nor near the top..I dont care about how manyaccounts you have...good for you....doesnt give you any more say than anyone else..take this argument to someone wholl listen to such crap..it will not be me. 1 person = 1 vote or its all a BS system...period -no reason to discuss it further.

I think if we knew "exactly" why the change went into effect we could then better discern what the ultimate end change would be. It would be interesting to have just a bit more insight into exactly why this change is going in. I think the intended was for a base yield min at 1..iirc. But I have seen reports of 0 harvest..no idea if those are true or what the circumstances were surrounding the 0 harvest. I have a few tiles I planted and just left to ripen..I got 1 and some 2's..but its too small a data set to draw any conclusions off of other than its possible to get 1 @ 44 farming skill. If I am to interpret the numbers I have seen thus far and translate those into sentences I think it would go something like this - It should be rare to get pre 1.1 harvest numbers. The rare actions contribute to an average thats cloose to pre 1.1 numbers. New people can forage till they get enough farming to support themselves with it.

More accounts does not = more votes..thats a bit of cheating the sysem. I person =1 vote. You cant use time as you would then take new people to the game out of the voting system....so using time doesnt work either...If your goal is a true vote..then you would have to force everyone to vote. your going back to only a few make the decisions..the vocal minority. doesnt work.

Let Tich tweak it before you judge it. Its probably going to take a number of tweaks anyways.

Now Ill go one step further..and this should have went in my last post..but im busy atm..so ill do it here. Before you start throwing the farming online comment at me...lets take that example one more step..and lets say for example that one of the new features was a waterwheel and perhaps throw in irrigation. So you have your huge farm that can produce thousands of crops and undercut everyone...now to protect that investment youll want to of course mitigate any chance of those pesky pests and rampant disease..so..perhaps youll need to do 2 things..install irrigation and a waterwheel to maximize your chances at a good crop. now lets say that this new waterwheel doesnt simply take carpentry skill of x amount..lets say its on a points system. And lets say it takes 500 carpentry points. If 1 skill level in carp = 1 carp point then you going to need multiple high level carpenters..or a whole lot of low level carpenters or some mix of both high and low carpenters to come in and construct this item. Now you have the setup for a construction company...or in game terms an alliance of carpenters. Same with the irrigation. you need ditches dug (using the existing fence mechanic) one would then hire a number of diggers to dig your irrigation trenches and hook it to the waterwheel or your nearest water source. Now again..you have the setup for a diggers alliance. Your also creating dependencies on the other paths. By default your giving alliances more meaning and these new working alliances can travel from server to sever providing services...regard less of the Skill makeup of the individual member. And one other item I forgot to mention...a Once a WURM year harvest..however..you would have seasonal products..such as winter wheat. So you could farm all year..just you would be limited to what crops grow in what season.

If all these changes are because of the economy it would be interesting to know what portion of the games farmers actually benefit - yes that would be intersting to know..and some stats on the actual number of farms, farm tiles..all that good demographic info would be very useful indeed..Im guessing though the devs will not release such things. Sun, what you going to do when you have to compete against people like me who can produce tens of thousands of crops and are willing to undercut you to take your business away? If you think that nerfing can slow me down you're wrong. The level of nerfage need to really hurt me would be so extreme that new/casual gamers would have no chance whatsoever. Ask yourself if you can you spend 8,10,12 hours a day farming? Are you willing to expand out too 2,3,4 thousand farm tiles? Because I could do those things. -thats an excellent question..and what follows is the answer. Thats why you need the 0 harvest. Thats why you would need disease and pestilence. In a cross server economy I can simply sell my goods elsewhere. If the market is flooded with low priced goods...I deal with tihs in RL anyways. Also convienence is a factor. If my neighbor needs a few hundred to get past a bad spot..I can just drop them off for a bit higher price than you sell for. theyll be glad to get the instant gratification. Since I only have a 44 farming im not going to compete with you..you can easily undercut me..but im sure youll be busier with others at your skill level than worrying about some lowly farmer such as myself..who will be able to sell locally and build up a clientel. Also I could get with other lowly farmers and do a Co op..in gaming terms..an alliance of small farmers...individually they could not compete with you..but as a group..they most certainly could. While you may be able to out produce me..what happens if you get a bad crop..lets say disease...and that disease spreads to the farms around you...all your tiles are now 0 harvest..while me..the lowly 44 skill farmer has had a bit of luck in avoiding it this year..now I can command premium prices for my goods without having any competiton from you.and in this circumstance..while youll produce no crops...you should be able to maybe harvest a few..and I mean a very few seeds that are resistant to that disease that came by...so maybe out of 500 tiles you get 10 seeds total. youll have to start that resistant generation of seed from scratch..further slowing your production and giving the lowly farmers a very nice premium market because all of a sudden the market is bare. Now obvioulsy this would all have to be gamed out and other balancing items be put in place. As there is no way to cover every possible way to game that system in such a short post. But with some planning and forethought..one could make one hell of a market. That everyone of any skill could be profitable in. Oh and maybe ill do an ole EVE trick and simply buy all your product out and resell it at higher prices One could also add in the current way of balancing animals on deed to help balance farm size as well. A ratio...the more farm tiles you have the more chance for disease and pestilence.

Even the most grueling slogs with the most complex mechanics are only chasing after an apparition of reality. - I agree..this can be said of any game. But all that realisim has garnered WURMS closest parralell 500000 subs.EVE. After how many years of going after the minecraft crowd...how many subs..no idea..I see 34 players on my server atm. hmm 500000 or say 1200 1300. EVE has 30k players on at any given time. So since there are all kinds of games that cater to the simple side of gaming..and only 1 sandbox that caters to the complex side of things...Financially and realistically..the direction is clear. Complex =subs. It's as simple as this: until a raking action is as good for the final yield as sowing in the first place, it's never going to be incentivized for serious production. As of this writing, if I rake a tile five times, its yield doesn't even double. That is garbage, and it fails to reward the extra effort. "Do I rake this whole plot five times throughout the week, or do I just sow a few more tiles today?" is an easy choice. - Its not been tweaked yet...and it will most likely need multiple tweakings..Id wait until its pronounced done before Judgment. And again to your other points..id simply wait untill the farming is pronounced done....its not even been tweaked once..and will in all likelyhood take multiple tweakings.

I don't play GAMES for realism. I play them for fun and enjoyment. - Ok so thats a playstyle..plenty of games out there that cater to just that....ive listed them in one of the above posts. Rolf not too long ago made the minimum yield on fields be 2 to help RETAIN new players, and now this farming change has completely undone that change. - Ok 2 things...show me the post where Rolf stated this was the reason he made that change...and 2. Foraging..if youll give it a quick try...now is the easiest method of garnering food for new players as well as players who have below 40 farming. No ones going to starve....unfortunately. I tested with a free char with 20 farming on 30 fields using 20ql potatoes and a 10ql rake, if i didn't rake for 1 day of them growing , i got 1 crop back .... please tell me how that equates to FUN. - 2 things here as well..your definiton of fun is different than mine..and 2..less farm products for the new guys = more foraging...less farm products for the rest of us = a better market and better prices. your going to say that someone paying you 3 or 4 sil per 1000 farmed goods wont be satisfying? if you were to get say 4 silver for 1000 pumpkins..wouldnt you deserve that?..sounds like incentive to me..sounds like in the process youll gain renown as a farmer. Lots of ways to look at that. As I have stated in an above posts...facebook has farming you can play WOW Rift Minecraft..all of those are oversimplified games that attract a certain demographic. Now consider a new player may have a horse or 2 on there as well, this would result in a loss of crops ( from animals eating them away)....... - Horses can be put on grass..no reason to have them on crops. or for that matter Cows Bison deer..all the grazing animals can be put on grass. In a game where eating is needed to be able to do anything , and a nutrition system involved that means you can't just eat any old crap you find , then you NEED to be able to sustain yourself at a basic level from farming ( doesn't matter if it is a free character or not ). - you can use foraging to get the stuff you need to eat...no one will starve..I would invite you to try foraging a bit to see what you come up with...Im sure youll see its a quick and easy way to find the stuff you need to feed yourself. Yes, players can forage and fish as well, but that doesn't mean we should nerf farming for those players. - I dont believe it to be a nerf..its a rebalancing. farming has always been too easy and out of line with other paths.

Nope..that voting system could be gamed easily..multiple toons per account (people have had thier priests alts for years..people have had multiple toons for years)..it would skew the statistics and would not be an accurate reflection of those voting...not to mention youd have to force a vote from everyone...and thats not going to happen. Otherwise its just the vocal minoroity again. Voting systems dont work unless everyone can show up face to face and drop a paper ballot. And even then..this doesnt always work..even with threats of incarceration and fines...these do not exist in an MMO. I have 5 live IP addys that I own..I could subnet those into as many IP's as I wanted to and essentialy create hundreds of accounts and own any voting system on the web including any that would be on WURM. And no one would be able to tell..there would be no way to accurately define whether i was 1 or many. I have been in networking for 14 years. I can speak with authority..polls and voting online are not possible. Long winded..Ill give you that one..but these are complex issues..so they require complex answers. They are not 1 dimensional black and white cut and dry issues. So they require a bit more thought..a solid foundation in logic and where facts can be garnered..applied. Youll never see a scientific poll on an MMO. Polls cannot be done online..they can and will always be manipulated. Its very easy to do. they mean nothing..I dont even buy the polls on here that support my viewpoint..they are meaningless..to many forum alts. And there are academic studies on MMO's..they all have to do with phsycology though. If Im understanding you correctly..you would like to apply a more mainstream MMO ideaology to WURM. I could not disagree with that enough. Why would anyone want to take a decidedly unique game and apply WOW and Rift ideaological concepts. There are plenty of simpleton games out there..there are no end to them. If you like a simpler version of WURM...Minecraft is available. why not go there? you have Sims...Everquest, WOW, RIFT, then trions new First person that has a SYFY show based on it..Definace. That market is saturated...why in the world would anyone want to go in that direction. Theres no reason to financially, the game was never based on those Idealogical viewpoints...WURMS closest comparison is to EVE...and even then you have to stay on a very high level when comparing them. WURMS potentially biggest market is from the EVE crowd. It really should get more complex..each "Path" not class..(everyone calls them classes..but thats a mainstream MMO concept, they are more correctly described as paths) should bestructured so that you have a carrer path one can choose to follow that is and unto itself its own independant fully fleshed out way of experiencing WURM.Farming should be farming...not a variant on the facebook farm game. Blacksmithing should be blacksmithing...and have its own fleshed out little world. All you have to do is look at EVE and see the parallels. If I want to do alchemy..there should be a huge section on it..a lot of features and ways thier products interact with the rest of the carrer paths. dependency, at high levels, between each of the paths. this is the way the game was founded..there is no reason to move away from that direction. I have allready stated in a different post on a different subject that I think that WURM needs to move thier marketing away from the minecraft crowd of preteens and teens and move to a more adult oriented 25+ age range. thats where this games market lies...below age 25 the vast majority of kids will move from game to game anyways. the grass is always greener and A.D.D. is the driving motivator. your always going to have to be doing something to keep thier attention. And for a small dev group..thats near impossible. So they might as well rely on their strengths and simply abandon the demographic of 24 and below.And then move to a demographic that best suits them..where the profit lies. Im far from the first person to say this would be a good direction..I have seen it posted many times.

I hear people say this alot...but I have never ground any skill..I have always just let them raise naturally. If I were forced to have to grind..id never play this game..so I guess its just the playstyle. Im sitting on 82 digging 71 carp 72 masonry 68 mining a handfull of 50's and a bunch of 30 to40's. But ill agree if things are mishandled..it very well could turn into that...but I just dont see any sign of it yet.

From the results I have seen so far..it seems the low end farmers as well as some of the high end farmers can do well...certainly not all..but I could not state why thats happeneing yet as there is not enough info available. My new guys harvest is about to come in so well see what he gets vs what I and the neighbors got. Also due to the foraging change new guys that dont do so well or for that matter anyone that has a bad pass at farming can always spend a bit of time foraging. It has really been tweaked.More like overhauled. I am certain that coming in one day when your used to getting 8 9 or 10 per tile and getting a reduced result is frustrating...however it doesnt mean the change was a bad one. we probably will not realistically know the full extent and effects of the change for quite some time due to the very nature of farming. Well get in some results...they will tweak it..well plant more..get in more results and itll be tweaked again. Yeah there will not be much incentive...yet...the incentive would be amuch greater demand for farmed products..the market is flooded...and pre 1.1 all anyone had to do was get to 40 and you could feed the server..which is whats happened. So if you have a change that 1. makes it harder to farm 2. reduces the Net amount of farmed goods available...you create a higher demand. the higer demand ..once its all stabilized out..and once we see if any other future changes needed for this one to be in place will / or should provide the incentive. I would point to other recent changes - Problem with animal hoarding...multiple part solution...rework enchanted grass, add in animal ratio and rework existing sinks, rework spawning rates - end result= wild animals all over the server. Any new person has an equal chance to access specific content..content being defined as animals to raise breed ect ect ect. Where before those changes, new players were being handed a large "barrier to entry" on that specific content..while the older players controlled that content and therefore controlled access to that content. Lots of people didnt like the enchanted grass change - but it makes sense in the end. Without that enchanted grass staying around forever and with the new animal ratio, you get rid of the hoarded herds that are all penned up while the player that owns them has either quit or will not be online for months at a time..thus removing content from the game. How does anyone know that this is not the same thing thats going to happen here with farming. We dont...only the devs do..and they are not saying. Oh and a 50% reduction across the board cut on yield...I pulled that number out of a hat. as a baseline cut to see what happens when the market is suddenly shorted that amount. It of course should be tweaked from that amount. But as a baseline..ok we need to start somewhere number...50% seems a good place. Ok and why would I want that in the first place?...to get a true market going. Farming ...like so many other items in WURM suffers from an embarrasment of riches. Its just too easy to get too much stuff. In any commodities market..less is more...Cliche as it may be...its very true. Now that we are going to have to have a lot more actions and like you have said...the incentive really isnt there...for those of us used to the old system..its clearly a loss and incentive is gone. well if you have a really robust market...and the number of farmers drops...and lets say that in a future patch a few more changes are put into farming..maybe some of the other items I have listed in other posts that start to force a cross server economy, then You guys that are the high end farmers stand to benifit the most..there really only should be a handful per server that are capable of huge yields and in order to make that happen..youd need to make farming harder..more realistic. In the end if we have a farming mechanic that rewards..not just slightly..but heavily rewards those that spend the time and effort to develop farming skills then ultimately its a good change and going in the right direction. So in short summary..why do I want a 50% cut in gross yield....to start moving towards a cross server economy.

100% correct on all points

Any sandbox game allows freedom to follow your chosen path...No its not mentioned but then why dont we have gingerbread houses and candy cane trees? Oceans of cheese and wheres the yellow brick road?. Trying to turn WURM into Sims or WOW is kind of strange with the simpleton paths and oversimplified mechanics. Oversimplification is overdone...EVE...arguably the most complicated game ever...has 500,000 subs..so clearly keeping things realistic and complicated doesnt inhibit game growth. Voting system would never work...it would be gamed. All web based polls can easily be manipulated..couldnt use accounts in game as there would be multiple accounts per person. IP Addresses can be changed and spoofed as well as MAC addresses. No way to do voting that could not be gamed. I disagree that dev should ignore customer's desire and push their own agendas - Nothing like that has happened...Proof??? Or are you still going to maintain you dont need facts to make accusations? What devs should be doing is looking at the suggestions forum and find things the community wants, assessing ROI is worthwhile -- coding difficulty versus customers gained or retained, and how it might break game balance. - No reason not to look at suggestion forum..also no reason to implement anything on it. I have put stuff on it..but its up to them to choose what can be done and what they think will add the most value to the game. There are plenty of ways to keep the community involved..none of which require the use of pitchforks and tempertantrums nor does it require the community to be involved with every change. And as far as ROI is concerned...every time you make a coding change you alter ROI..so it has to always be a priority. Ultimately changes will be made...people will leave..the game will go on..with or without the people that leave. New people will come in to replace those that leave. Rage quitters always come back..its the silent ones who if they leave...wont come back. This has been proven. There is no reason to cater to the mob..so if they do..they do so as a kindness..nothing more.