Simyaci

I think you are thinking of WoW where you could lockpick mob looted/pickpocketed small chests (that could be kept in inventory and easily traded) as a rogue. However, let's not forget that smiths could forge keys that could open these lockpickable items and also gates in WoW. I think if we get similar chests in wurm, we also need the ability to open them with a forged key. Pottery isn't a very useful in Wurm Online despite not being any easier to level than the other crafting skills.The potters could make a special wet mold that has to be higher than the lock's QL to be used, and the locksmith could get that wet mold to make a key using the lock. On the other hand, the key could be crafted independant of any lock and based on the mold (crafted by the potter) ql as max and skill (locksmithing) and metal ql as average, having universal utility on locks while requiring to be within a narrow QL range with the lock. The key would require an alloy like brass, bronze or electrum if the weight of metal required is high or a rare metal like empyrean if the metal required is very low. Then that key could open a lock if the QL fits in a narrow range. It could use a skill as skill check to have a successful attempt while failed attempts would damage the key. The higher QL locks would be harder to open even with their respective narrow QL range keys while higher keys would also receive less damage. Either that or the keys would be repairable and higher QL key would naturally lose less QL when repaired.

I am waiting for the auction house to be implemented to participate in a bid auction in Wurm Online for the first time. I can't be the only one.

There would have to be an alternative that brings use to a currently useless PvE skill if the PvP skill lockpicking becomes necessary for opening any loot in goblin camps. Goblin Camps are a PvE feature anyways. It would be strange if it would get gatekept by a PvP skill. You could say it would become a PvE skill if goblin camps require it, but it doesn't change the fact that most PvE players have 1 level in that skill while most PvP'ers have a high lockpicking skill. Let's also not forget locksmithing. I'd assume PvP'ers have a higher locksmithing skill to make the picks but at least those can be bought. If lockpicking is going to be necessary to open loots in the goblin camps (even if not all of them but some), we are going to need Non-PvP based skill alternatives to open those loot containers. Then it would be balanced and everybody would be happy. Priest could open it with some of their skills. Alchemists could open the locks on the locked containers with their potions. Toymakers could have gadgets to open the locks. Special wet molds made by Potters (the ql would need to be higher than the lock) could be used by Locksmiths to get a key molded on the lock.

This idea might be a little silly and unnecessarily complicated but it came to my mind anyways so I wanted to share it. 1c per day for regular bid based auctions. No daily cost for no bid buyout auctions (if it sells) but you have to pay the %5 tax upfront based on the sale price you've set and 7 coppers from your own pocket when putting up the item there. Your nobid buyout auction stays at the auction house for 7 days by default. You can't make it longer or shorter. If your nobid buyout auction sells within those 7 days, you get full value from the item's sale value since you've already paid the %5 tax upfront, and you get your 7 coppers back. If your no bid buyout auctioned item doesn't sell after those 7 days pass, you get your item back through an automatic mail and you get the %5 upfront tax you've paid upfront back, but you lose the 7 coppers you've paid upfront. If you withdraw the item before the auction ends on your no bid buyout auction, you pay 3c default withdraw price and on top of that, 1c for each day it has been in the auction system. So you pay 10c if you withdrew it at the last day and 3c if you withdrew it within the first day. You can't withdraw the item if you don't have the money to do it in your bank. You pay the full withdraw cost from your own pocket and you get both your %5 paid tax and your 7 coppers back.

If the fee is paid upfront (30 coppers for 30 days paid upfront drained from the bank for example) and is not reimbursed after the sale based on the unspent remaining days, I think 1c a day is a good cost to keep people from spamming and keeping items for a long period of time without good reason. You'd need to spend 30 silvers a month to keep 100 items forever in the auction house.

If some chests were locked and if anyone could open it but opening it would involve a long timer unless it is lockpicked, and the lock quality made the timer longer, I think that'd be fair.

+1 but I'd rather they added some kind of alchemy or natural substances mixture that is crafted to get rid of drunkenness instead

There is that.

All that I've read so far makes me believe it will be almost identical to the World of Warcraft auction house with a few differences here and there. That means it is going to have the no bid buyout option as well. I must have missed the point where it has been stated that it will only be bid auctions in the beginning. Where was that mentioned?

I agree with limit on player ongoing auctions but I think 5 is simply too low. 5 is a good number for freemium characters. We need a lot more for premium. I believe a 10 daily and 50 in total ongoing auctions limit per premium character is the way to go. The limit won't be necessary if the 3c fee stays.

We are going to need a lot of backpacks.

If you've publicly said that or privately made contact without having a friend outbid a legitimate bid, you would have spared yourself the embarressment and the humiliation, not the bidder.

+1 You should be able to lockpick it without breaking any rules if the game lets you to bash it open (offdeed).

There are so many obvious issues with this. You could lockpick Boats, Carts, Wagons, Houses (of newbies offdeed), BSBs of people who run a community project for the good of the game, loot the private possessions of your deedmates which are normally blocked to you through locks... I'm sure we could think of more but these few are more than enough in my opinion.

I'm sure every auction rigger is as ''outspoken'' as Bipolarbear appears to have been, which is what got him into trouble. His real crime is being a loudmouth. He probably thought he could run his mouth because he saw no problem with what he is doing. If he was (or has been) doing this only to discriminate, he must have thought there is no issue with it as long as he is not doing it to withdraw his own item or to increase the value. On the other hand, the people who do it frequently knowing there is a huge problem with what they are doing (increasing value or withdrawing when desired value is not reached) but only if they get caught, could get away with it forever by just being quiet keeping it to themselves. And if they do get caught, the worst that can happen is a name and shame topic where they get massive support, especially if they are a part of a kingdom where you don't let your buddies out to dry no matter what. Someone could be rigging his auctions for years and after getting caught for the first time, he'd get a name and shame topic where he gets to throw anger outbursts at the original poster and his buddy gets to threaten people with punishment for slander while most commentors are attacking the original poster and making jokes about how the original poster could be in big trouble for doing this. What happens in a frequent rigger's (not talking about this topic by any means but the example above) auctions after that? Nothing. He can use another account and keep doing what he has been doing as if nothing at all has happened. There are absolutely no downsides to doing whatever you want to do as a host on the forum auctions. I am going to continue saying this because it is true. There are going to be downsides to doing it on the ingame auctions. There is going to be at least one guaranteed downside. I am expecting there to be more.

This tells me all I need to know about how auctions are rigged on the forums, as there are absolutely no downsides to rigging them or outright blatantly overriding them. If they don't get caught and keep it quiet, they won't even have a name and shame topic. If they get caught by being boastful about it or blatantly override it after the auction is over, they can get a name and shame topic like this but then it gets filled with people who support them leaving positive messages in agreement as either friends, people who think alike, people who dislike the other side etc. A bunch of people even threaten to get the name and shamer in trouble through slander or joke about libel (Defamation). Even the people who get name and shamed are feeling comfortable enough that they are throwing around threats and anger outbursts. If this forum topic was a habitat where one of those two sides could live, it would be the name and shamed who could live in it, even thrive in it. Apparently, the forum auctions are more of a joke than I thought they were. There are absolutely no downsides to doing whatever you want as a host. No downsides whatsoever. You must be absolutely needing that auctioned item or have no idea what the norm is or what the mindset is regarding how forum auctions are supposed to work to be actually bidding in a forum auction. We urgently need an ingame auction house. I'm glad we are actually getting it so I can actually participate in the ingame auctions knowing there is a fee to pay for rigging and the host has no power whatsoever after the auction has been completed. Rigging bids might also be subject to ingame rules as the action happens ingame and not on the forums, with GMs being able to easily check the bids, their timelines and which character has made them and take action due it being done within their jurisdiction.

I like my deeds open and safe

Why have you said that you could still block the last bidder from buying after the auction is over when you have not put the rules about that upfront? Do you seriously believe that you can just ignore the last bidder after the auction has been completed properly under the rules you have set? If you want to block people, not just the dragon slayers but any group you like, you better mention that upfront at the start of the auction. Do you think playing a little bidding cooperation with your friend or stating here that you should have instead just outright canceled that person if he/she was the last bidder, is not worse than taking the heat for discriminating? Honestly, I think what you said you could and should do after the apologies is much worse than what you've done with the bidding. It means you are at a completely different wave-length than the people who are bidding in your auctions. They have no idea that they are playing that fake auction game in vain while you have all the decision power at the end. Would you place a bid under an auction host that made the statement that you've made here? If the auction host said that he can ignore your last bid because he can categorize you under a group post-auction and sell the item to the bidder before you, would you think people should bid under his auctions? The main problem is not even the angry and condescending way you've said it, but that you've expressed your opinion that you believe you can ignore a last bidder post-auction despite not having ruled them out upfront. You thinking you can do a post-auction decision on who to sell the item is worse than this little bidding game you've played. You are throwing some apologies out there but still saying worse things than the one you've apologized for right after. I don't even like these dragon slayers, they are greedy people who aren't budging on any reasonable suggestion that would make dragon slaying much less of a mess (especially when public), because it would make them earn less even in the slightest way. You are right to boycott them. You should have the right to boycott them. However, the way you are doing and saying things is just completely irrational and you are saying them in this strange confident fervor while everything you say is damning you more than the last.

You've said those last. How does what you said before change their content? I'm glad I've quoted it so you can't just edit it and act like it is not how you think you can run your auctions.

I didn't even know this was even an option. This can be done by auction hosts? Seriously? You don't have to set up the rules upfront and can do whatever you feel like after the auction is over? Are you kidding me? These kind of comments and events make me glad I've never taken part in forum auctions and I'll keep it that way. I'm going to take part in ingame auction houses in the new upcoming auction house system where the host doesn't have full freedom to do anything at anytime without a care in the world.

This has made me laugh. Everyone should get punished but the auction house riggers and even the people who hasn't broken the rules should get punished if they haven't rigged the auction house. That's a very interesting perspective, a very interesting lense to see the world through. It is clear what happened here. You placed a bid for your buddy to help him discriminate against a group of people, and as a side effect you did something extra which is inflating the bid values. I think the real question is whether these two good friends have been scratching each other's back in each other's auctions and got caught when one of them decided to boast about it for reasons that will never be truly known or understood, or this is a one time honest act of discrimination. Was the bid withdrawn before the private message conversations ingame took place with Sweetserenade or after? If Kinganon withdrew his bid very quickly and has not waited for the PMs from Sweetserenade, I think that makes a big difference and helps his case. If Kinganon hasn't been frequently helping his friend Bipolarbear in his auctions by bidding with a main or alt account, but only did it this time as a brief lack of judgement, that makes a big difference and helps his case. If Kinganon has been frequently bidding in Bipolarbear's auctions with a main and an alt forum account, and only withdrew his bid after he talked with Sweetserenade, after some time has passed, then it doesn't look good for him at all and he has no right to complain that people are ''slandering'' him in this topic by stating the obvious as to what transpired, especially considering how nobody is not even saying anything harsh against him under this topic, unless he is Bipolarbear and he responding to the things said about Bipolarbear by commenting under his other account Kinganon, which would make everything so much worse. Imagine being humble and apologetic under your main account where you are mainly targeted by criticism while you are attacking at people with threats of punishment on your other account where you are pretty much being given a pass (at least by the people who are commenting). I'm not saying it is very likely but I am saying it is a possibility that shouldn't be overlooked. This is a very confusing topic. Everyone is hitting hard on Bipolarbear and Bipolarbear is humbly apologizing while nobody is even saying anything towards Kinganon other than simply stating the obvious in a polite way and he is being extremely defensive, going as far as threating people with punishment.

If you do it on the forum auctions and don't tell the people who are guaranteed to tell on you (which is what happened here and it is perplexing), then you won't get in trouble and nobody will know about it. We have no idea what percentage of auctions that took place on the forums have been rigged. How many people have been punished for rigging an auction on the forums so far? I am going to go on a limb here and assume it is 0. That means there is 0 rigging on the forum auctions, right? I've stayed away from forum auctions from the beginning because it looked fishy as hell. There were no protections to keep it fair. The people who follow the rules have to accept their destiny and sell their item at whatever price the last bid ended up being and the people who are willing to rig it get to withdraw their item unless they hit the jackpot, without any penalties. If they rig at the forums, there are no downsides. You don't even need a friend, you could be your own friend and help yourself out. You could also have friends that are not very talkative but no friend is a better friend than yourself. If an auction is rigged in the auction house system, without any additional protections that might or might not get implemented, the %5 fee alone makes sure the rigger pays a price. Let's not forget that the rigging often happens in a way that the item is bought overpriced. Overpriced rigging means overpriced tax paying. How many times do you pay that tax overpriced until the money you spent doing it reaches the item's value? How many items can you rig on your precious item auctions and withdraw through your ''friends'' until the total cost of tax fee reaches the value of one or two of your precious items? Besides, I was pointing out the fact that you won't be able to discriminate on your ingame auctoun house auctions by rigging them, if you can't see the name of the bidder. This topic teaches that the name of the current bidder shouldn't be visible in the ingame auction house. If someone wants to rig despite the %5 tax penalty, seeing some nickname won't be much of a help in preventing it, just like how it does not prevent it on the forums. We only get to learn about it when someone decides to boast that they are doing it, to the person they are doing it to. However, with all that said and done, if that %5 fee is removed, auctions ingame will be even less trustworthy than the auctions on the forums.

I think the flat fee of 3c per day is too much for wurm. It might not be too much for WoW where your stuff gets bought in 24 hours max, but in Wurm Online 24 hours is not a long time and even a month is not a long time. If you leave a 90-95 CoC item in the auction house in NFI for a month, it only pays for its own auction fee if it sells after a month. If it doesn't sell, you pay the fee for it and hope the item sells within a day the next time you put it there and pays for the previous flat auction house cost. Is it very hard to sell most items within a day? It is not hard at all. You just have to sell below the market average. Just sell for less than the person who put it there for the lowest. Then it becomes a race to the bottom. In World of Warcraft, there was more demand than supply so the items were cycling very often and a listing of an item often got completely cleared and reset, especially when the price hit a really low value. I don't know if it is going to happen here. I doubt it and lean towards the possibility that it won't, at least not very often. The crafting in Wurm works very differently than games like WoW and we gain no value by disenchanting items, which was mainly responsible for clearing up AH from low and mid-end items in WoW when I've played it. We have no ''viable'' way of ''consuming'' crafted QL equipment and enchanted items to gain benefits. Crafting or acquiring mid to high-end items also wasn't so straightforward so it required special effort and even buying very different materials that are obtained through different ways. It is far more straightforward in Wurm and causes very high supply and unhealthy economy. I give WoW as an example because that is a time proven example as having a properly functioning auction house. If we had variety item requirement in mid to high-end item crafting and beneficial consuming of ql tools/equipment and enchanted items, it would be much harder for trade to suffer from over-supply as a result of both the merge and the auction house. A circular shaped economy would be much harder to break than an arrow shaped economy. The positive side of a high daily fee that I can see is that people won't just churn out more and more items and put there regardless of a strong demand being there or not. People will want their items to sell fast and be worth their effort at the same time, not just sit there competing with thousands of the same kind of item which has far less demand than the supply. If craftable item variety and useful skill variety increases in the game, that could help with expanding the demand and supply pool. The Backpack contents not bringing in extra fee is a massive positive that might also alleviate the high fee issue, especially with low and mid-end items. For a great majority of items, backpack selling will be the meta, if the fees stay as they are.

I haven't participated in forum auctions (at all? probably) since I've started playing assuming from day one that they would be rigged. There was no reason for them not to be rigged. I think it is very difficult to boycott people buying from you ingame, especially on the forums. It makes everything more complicated. It will be outright impossible when the auction house is introduced into the game. If you want to boycott people, just boycott buying from them and you can do it without even telling them anything. I might already be getting boycotted without knowing because I have opinions and I don't keep them to myself.

This was adressed with that statement ''Auctions will only consist of one base item. However that item can be a container with other items inside. Unlike mail, you will not be charged any additional fees for items within the container.''