CountZero

possibly - wasnt sure where was best to post it tbh. Im going to play a bit more and then go to the thread i think. cheers

did some testing. on a brand new map i can paint anything i like and it all works. Doesnt matter what order i paint in. The issue seems to pop up after I have put a fair amount of biomes down. All of a sudden trees just wont paint anymore even though other terrain (moss, dirt, sand etc) will. The problem also seems to persist in the image file. If I save the biome image, close everything down, restart teh app and reload the highmap back to blank (painting now works again) but if i import that biome image im back to not being able to paint trees again Its very frustrating as I need to paint the terrain first. Cant really do the trees first and then terrain as it doesnt look right

I have noticed that sometimes when i am using paint mode for trees, i click to add and nothing appears after the map updates. Its not just a case of the slope or height settings or anything like that - it seems to happen after a few biomes have already been added - i think maybe its snow that seems to trigger the problem? For example i am currently working on a map - i have done most of biomes, including snow and now i go to do tress and the vast majority of the tree types arnt applying to the map. If I click the reset all button and then try again with the same settings at the same place it works right away Any idea what the problem is and if there is a fix?

I think this is an issue with the veins spawning in the first place rather than the size of them

how do you get a 3d map view? I can load the map_cave file ok and see the ore and topography maps etc but I cant find how to get a ingame style view. I have tried loading all the other different map files but they all just give me a black screen after the rendering message goes away

not just carpentry but metal working too (brass/steel instruments).

really like this idea - adds more complex items to build and opens up a little more use for alloys. Already have mental images of creating a "rare" violin and giving it a Stradivarius name If this were implemented it would also be nice to get instrument displays so you can have them about as decoration. Not sure how it would work fixing a buff to an area tho. A trumpet in battle seems simpler as the person would have to equip and use it to give the buff but how would you activate an instruments buff and leave it in a house?

well buffing steel is an option. The reason i didn't suggest it was that I thought it might make it too effective? Iron doesn't seem ineffective in any way. Someone said they think making steel items is currently worth the effort for the durability bonus but I don't get that. When im making iron items i will make several at a time just because if im imping 1 thing its more efficient to imp loads and since iron doesn't require the effort to produce as steel, churning out loads at a time and just keeping spares is quick and easy. If a tool takes too much damage I can just dump it and pick up a brand new one.

i gues thats something else to consider - this entire time iv been talking about trading and a economy - iv been thinking of it as another aspect to gameplay - like building a building or hunting animals or making this and that. A part of the whole experience - where as other people see an economy as simply a means to an end. They don't see it as gameplay but as a tool to assist their gameplay. This is where the auction-house/no auction-house debate pops up. Another reason why the "economy" is such a difficult topic, since it would have to be implemented with a view to fulfilling a purpose/objective, and since and economy's can fill different purposes - which do you choose?

I guess im thinking more of cast than wrought but then doesnt wrought require smelting with charcoal?

care to discuss?

Say I wanted to give iron items a 10% buff to durability or make orange wood items 50% lighter - is this possible as a mod?

Compare iron items to steel items in this game and theres not much point in steel considering the effort it takes to make, which is rubbish. Iron is soft and brittle. If you take an iron item and hit things with it, the iron item should take a lot of dmg (at least a lot more than it currently does). Farming tools, weapons, armor should all take higher dmg. I know steel currently has a bit of a durability buff to it but the difference between iron and steel is too narrow. A steel item can also take a much better edge to it - steel blades should be (significantly) more effective than iron ones (higher success/ql chance when cutting or more dmg when attacking). Also on a slight tangent, Im not entirely sure why electrum was added as a thing (there must be a point im missing?) but if steel was much more preferable as a material - we could add "mithril". Identical to steel but much lighter. It could be a steel alloy - adding electrum to it or zinc or something (more uses for existing ores would be nice)

Imo a good, simple game economy for a game like wurm is one where a large range of items are actively traded between most ppl. Basic materials, simple everyday items, excellent every day items, luxury goods and "rare" stuff. If the economy just consisted of only end game rare items with such and such enchants etc then i would call that **** I agree about market dominating, a good simple game economy for wurm should consist of producers selling their items directly to earn the money they require to pay for the things they need. As soon as you get people hoarding money, playing games to manipulate prices etc you get problems. Middlemen can also be trouble - however innocently they may be playing (sometimes its fun to just be a trader) - this kind of play style can damage an economy in a small game like wurm. No easy answers to any of it

in order to get the m map you will need to edit something in your client files - i am not sure exactly what but theres discussions here on the forums on how to do it. If you check the mods section there is one that provides a live map you can put on a website that will show the map and all buildings/roads etc as they are built

Done Set ores to 2% of common ores, 1% of gold and silver and 0.2% of glimersteel ore and adamantine as requested although this is a huge amount of ore - not sure if you will like it. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PfEecramidJuzWpRvVwMBgdsSOJo0-pp

they weren't impossible, they had not been developed but the game engine had the technical capability to allow it. All water in wurm exists as a flat layer. You see water wherever the land level is below the water level. When you see a lake, that water isnt sitting on top of the rock underneath it . In order to have water above sea level (and indeed moving water) would require (i think - im no expert) a physics engine that Wurm doesnt have. If they were to change to a new fancy one it would basically be a total rebuild of the game from scratch right? (i dont actually know but it seems likely).

what a nice calm response to a discussion - I did mention that most people would not like it, I wasn't suggesting we should do this, just discussing ways you could make trade work. The kind of no limits sandbox game we currently have that you like is great - but its that nature that prevents there being any kind of interesting economy. Im not saying one is better than another. I am saying that they are mutually exclusive.

thanks to fancy new work done by deviator I can now make the ores location very bespoke if you would like. For example if you only want gold on one island or in one mountain or moon metals in a certain place etc. You can specify any placement of any ore - or I can just keep it random as usual if you like

fairly sure moving water is impossible? as is having water above sea level

lets face it - clothing options are almost non-existent. As well as a range of new cotton/wool options it would be nice to also see the introduction of new types like silk, linen etc, for ultra fine cloths and maybe other non clothing related stuff. Also cloth types that use leather. Yes this will all mostly be cosmetic but there could be a slight movement bonus to certain items or to certain ql. Maybe a skill gain bonus to "fine - upperclass, silk cloths" - but the really fine cloths should take dmg quite easily, requiring regular repair as opposed to lower quality "workmens" cotton cloths that would be much hardier. Workmens cloths maybe give a slight buff to action speed, but not too much due to their sturdiness. Linen sailors cloths could give a ship speed bonus. Fine furniture items that have pattern'd padded seats should require textile components when building - with option to use different kinds of textile for different ql of finished item

well thats ok then nerf iron and all hail our new charcoal making overlords

Even if something is added so moon metals or rare stuff becomes scarce and promotes trading - thats still a crappy "economy". The only real way of getting a decent trade aspect to the game would involve changes that almost no-one here would be happy with. First of all you need to create a need. People who can provide everything themselves dont have a need so you need to set it so they cant... Set a skill cap at 50 or 30 or something - high enough that ppl can support themselves with stuff "that will do" but stuff that isnt great. Allow players to take a per-defined set of skills over the cap. A player will choose the skill area depending on the thing they want to do most. For example someone who wants to blacksmith will be able to skill blacksmith, weapon/armor smith etc etc. But they wont be able to skill things they might need to create the materials they need - for example, mining, prospecting, maybe smelting will be in a separate group. This will stop the problem of veteran accounts eventually being able to do everything themselves and not needing to trade (although alt accounts would get around this i suppose) Then theres the problem with sinks. Obviously you cant just have stuff decay because that would be waay to frustrating/annoying but the only two things in the game that really require a lot of effort and resources to build are ships and buildings - things that we cant really get rid of, although maybe have ships take damage more easily based on movement (not much damage if they just stay in dock but still some) - the deeper the water they are in the faster the damage, or maybe random chance of extra damage ticks in very shallow water to account for hitting coral etc? Not sure if its possible but perhaps make repair more complex - like not just a single action but requiring replacement parts (of equal or better ql) to be used or something. ***EDIT*** thinking about it, repairing large or complex items (items with several components) SHOULD require materials/components to be consumed - combined with greater dmg it would help Plate armour used to take a bit of effort due to having to make it from steel but thats gone now. The only thing i can think of off the top of my head is the issue of iron - iron is too universally perfect. Its the most abundant ore, easiest to mine, you can make just about every metal item from it and iron items arnt that bad compared to other metals. Iron is brittle - anything that takes a hit - tools, weapons, armor would need to take damage much faster. Iron blades should be considerably less effective than steel. - Steel needs to be promoted, the only problem is that it will encourage mass deforestation due to charcoal requirement HOWEVER the effort it takes to make charcoal should stay the same otherwise its missing the whole point. Maybe adding in new items that are complex and resource intensive to make but either damage easily or something would help. I feel like all the alloys dont get much use which is a shame - maybe develop that aspect.

thats perfectly fine! i can just convert normal time to wurm time thanks a million

wurm is not a game that can really have an economy. In order for an economy to work, ppl need to need/want things they cant or wont make/get for themselves. Because the ONLY thing that prevents a player being able to get something for themselves is skill, its only a matter of time before that player gets the skill and thus removes themselves from the "market". Someone mentioned EvE's economy earlier in the thread - that economy works because not all resources are available to everyone and people loose stuff ALOT. Lots of consumables are needed for various things and players will often die and loose their ship and all its contents. Ships take a lot of time and resources to build. Many of the components themselves take time and effort to build so there's sub markets etc etc. A Wurm economy can only work if something changes so that no matter how high level a player you are - there are always things you cant/wont get for yourself and that's a fairly difficult thing to do with the mechanics available. Everything is too easily obtained in Wurm and not much is lost and so...no economy. Its not the end of the world, just something it cant feasibly do.