Mordraug

Rasu.................... Same as you don't own or control off-deed land, yet there was a legal enclosure rule in place. When I reported that fence bashing on my perimeter, was told to make it a legal enclosure to protect it (my mistake for not doing it sooner at the time). Problem solved right? Well apparently not anymore. BTW not everyone kills off every horse that isn't good, or kills off the parents to avoid inbreeding. My personal reasons were explained in previous posts................. and besides............. pay for my deed or stop telling me how to use it I planned and paid and planted my deed according to a ruleset, which included the option to make off-deed land safe (aka my INCLUDED perimeter), now the ruleset may be gone soon, along with the rest of 2014's planning. And trust me I'm not alone in this. So I can't expand, can't turn my perimeter to deed, would have to slaughter or let loose a herd which I kept, some out of sentimental value (aka my very first horse ever), some as spares for the odd ally who needs one....... Yeah... sounds easier to sell my deed and account, and take my money to a game that's run as a business rather than a personal project. You either are not affected by this change because you had no need for enclosures off-deed, in which case LUCKY, or have a few enclosures already sighted and can't wait to bash into them. In the first case, what's your problem with the rest of us? In the second ***hypothetical*** case (apologies if you're not, but you're talking exactly like one), you're a griefer who couldn't be happier about all the new targets you'll have in a month. Either way, just because something doesn't worry YOU doesn't mean that others' concerns are invalid. Somethingsomething universe... around you... not the established orbit.

*Edit: cut the "5-free" crap... "free" means I could have reduced it to "0" when planting the deed. 5 INCLUDED... basic basic basic business talk... VERY basic.* That's nice, but I can't expand over my perimeter, so this is relying on the idea that no one's gonna deed near me, and that everyone leaves a good 20 tiles between deeds "in case someone near me wants a bigger deed eventually". I still need 4 deeds to disband in order to expand over my existing perimeter, as the new perimeter would overlap theirs. At no point was it said that we're not supposed to use it, ever, or that we're supposed to leave room for passage between deeds (spawn a new alt in Release, you'll see what I mean.. on that note removing highway protection is a baaaaaaaad idea for that server). Also, deeds were planted under the parameters of legal enclosure rules, so spots were picked according to that rule set, and things were built in accordance. At no point was it said that these rules may change, and that we shouldn't rely on our perimeters. At no point was it said that if you work up Animal Husbandry, you'd need a second deed or a plant a 100x100 from the start because the dev team wants your perimeter free. ALSO..... many people fence their perimeters, because, given how GM's currently handle griefing, I could very well go up to someone's perimeter, dig a tile down some 140 dirts, level it, then dig a moat around that deed and most likely get away with it if my excuses are good enough... aka too many gray areas, and from my own experience, owner of that deed would be told "he has the tools to fix it". So Rasu, you seriously need to understand that at no point were we told CLEARLY TO NOT USE OUR PERIMETERS, in fact we were told exactly how to make an off-deed enclosure protected, which was a logical course of action for our perimeters. At first I didn't have gatehouses on my perimeter enclosures until griefer.. GM.... bashed walls.... dug up field tiles for no real reason...... gatehoused them all, and suddenly i'm told they're no longer protected because "GM's have too much work?". Had I known from the very start that my perimeter was fully unprotected, would have deeded elsewhere. Had other horse breeders known, guessing a 5-speed would be worth more along the lines of 3 silver considering the amounts of land it takes and the extra deeds that would be needed to keep them safe. Guess you were lucky and assumed correctly, but I'm not paying to play under rules I have to guess. What's in writing is what supposedly is. I know no one asked, but I'm willing to guess that you've started imping mauls the second you read that thread?

I keep seeing "the perimeter is a buffer zone to avoid deed-to-deed walling" ......... Have yet to see someone calculate their deed size without the perimeter factored into land needs/wants. ALSO, anyone who fences a perimeter area was gonna do so with or without it and most likely on that exact same spot anyways. Only way that would have worked would have been to start from early.... say.. when deeds were added...... and make veeery clear that you wanted nothing built on perimeters, and that it was unsafe land. Way too late, customers paid under a certain set of EXPLICIT conditions, not necessarily aware of the IMPLICIT ones (aka what was in Rolf+team's heads for ideal scenario.. we're not psychic). Back to gnome's restaurant: Owner decides to close 2hrs early in the middle of peoples' meals making them shove the food down their throats at an unpleasant rate or leave half the paid for meal unfinished. Some customer is gonna ask why in hell they were not told they had 15 minutes to eat BEFORE they ordered. It won't help any if the owner says "Well, I was THINKING about it earlier".

Getting a general feel......... hey we could leave this thread open for skillset PC's lol. Thanks for the headstart, will deffo be reading other account sale threads =D

Hear, hear! http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luoxltKH9w1r6aoq4o1_500.gif Suggestions: Mandatory perimeter: Kill it, you didn't really expect people not to use them from moment 1, SPECIALLY with the legal enclosures rule having been in place as long as it was. AND Ratio: Doesn't work. If a 1500 tile deed can't be used to start a 5-speed line over time without having to resort to perimeter, then it is inherently flawed with your plans to make effectively perimeters no-man's land again. Expanding my deed into a hypothetical 0-perimeter (I HAVE NO ROOM TO EXPAND) would leave me back in square 1. ((Edit: Or start early while not that many people have quit, and admit your lapse in judgement and leave any deed-perimeter area out of this. You'd think the thread about flying would have made that general sentiment clear)) Newbies and their need for a starter house: 5x5 max enclosure size, keep it protected at least up to <x> amount of days, say 30. If player's been inactive more than 2 weeks, loses protection. I Wouldn't have lasted long enough to decide to plant a deed had i not used that lovely 5x5 *SAFE* squatter habitat the first couple of weeks. The local thief at that time would have had a field day with my lowbie stuff. Business aspect: We are paying customers, not your employees, not your children, not friends who you're lending a server to. You exist for us, not the other way around. Start bearing that in mind. Gnome's restaurant comment is rather spot-on. It's your game, and while you have the right to change your mind at a moment's notice, Rolf, so do we regarding where our money goes. Business is rarely about pleasant decisions, and within reason, the customers' interests come first as they will decide what the figures will look like at the end of each quarter. Also, corporate IMAGE is important, and right now, the image is damaged. Specifically, regarding whether what we paid for will retain its value or be dropped at a whim. Your post basically says "That deed you paid for? Yeah... that safety you gave us money for.... might be less in a month... you'd need to pay more to reclaim it, and may lose most or all of the hours you used securing it".

Skills dumped at Apr 4, 2014 ----- Skills: 0.0 Religion: 3.45302 Prayer: 7.152354 Channeling: 1.0 Preaching: 1.0 Exorcism: 2.0 Artifacts: 1.0 Hammers: 1.0 Warhammer: 1.0 Healing: 10.290601 First aid: 23.269218 Clubs: 1.8309339 Huge club: 2.724714 Archery: 1.0 Short bow: 1.0 Medium bow: 1.0 Long bow: 1.0 Thievery: 1.0 Stealing: 1.0 Lock picking: 1.0 Traps: 1.0 War machines: 9.133941 Catapults: 15.169013 Polearms: 1.0 Staff: 1.0 Long spear: 1.0 Halberd: 1.0 Prospecting: 25.771454 Coal-making: 14.548536 Milling: 1.0 Tracking: 13.053492 Paving: 26.360022 Climbing: 10.92577 Thatching: 25.145245 Firemaking: 18.77066 Pottery: 4.7764845 Mining: 65.5007 Digging: 70.50629 Ropemaking: 6.4573994 Smithing: 27.299078 Blacksmithing: 52.875366 Locksmithing: 16.039854 Jewelry smithing: 1.9807639 Metallurgy: 3.0393429 Weapon smithing: 9.469612 Blades smithing: 4.6155906 Weapon heads smithing: 2.7866955 Armour smithing: 1.9575546 Shield smithing: 1.0 Chain armour smithing: 3.593529 Plate armour smithing: 1.0 Tailoring: 10.038446 Cloth tailoring: 22.661299 Leatherworking: 1.285539 Masonry: 43.868584 Stone cutting: 17.801447 Cooking: 6.1041403 Hot food cooking: 8.541925 Baking: 1.0 Dairy food making: 1.0 Butchering: 13.700409 Beverages: 1.0 Nature: 38.115765 Fishing: 25.829334 Gardening: 39.35916 Foraging: 15.622884 Botanizing: 9.478315 Animal taming: 23.195068 Forestry: 29.062384 Farming: 9.299175 Milking: 1.0 Meditating: 27.213932 Animal husbandry: 50.643635 Papyrusmaking: 1.0 Toys: 1.0 Yoyo: 1.0 Puppeteering: 1.0 Fighting: 35.564316 Defensive fighting: 10.836258 Normal fighting: 3.4449284 Weaponless fighting: 19.776682 Aggressive fighting: 22.925674 Shield bashing: 1.7985762 Taunting: 1.0 Miscellaneous items: 60.315533 Shovel: 42.064617 Rake: 6.9698505 Saw: 26.662075 Pickaxe: 69.10242 Repairing: 26.900831 Sickle: 26.784672 Scythe: 1.0 Hammer: 57.864098 Stone chisel: 14.384812 Alchemy: 2.423274 Natural substances: 5.7654247 Shields: 2.042916 Medium metal shield: 1.0 Small wooden shield: 1.0 Small metal shield: 1.0 Large metal shield: 1.976931 Medium wooden shield: 1.0 Large wooden shield: 1.0 Axes: 34.41956 Hatchet: 41.76419 Small Axe: 1.0 Large axe: 1.0 Huge axe: 1.0 Swords: 13.380041 Longsword: 21.1401 Shortsword: 4.147808 Two handed sword: 1.0 Knives: 17.870146 Carving knife: 21.101517 Butchering knife: 19.966278 Woodcutting: 57.47862 Mauls: 13.073001 Medium maul: 1.0 Small maul: 1.0 Large maul: 22.98601 Carpentry: 75.4606 Bowyery: 1.0 Fletching: 1.5105402 Fine carpentry: 52.71757 Toy making: 1.0 Ship building: 16.451672 Characteristics: 0.0 Mind: 28.977892 Mind logic: 34.337517 Mind speed: 20.193977 Soul: 24.958136 Soul depth: 23.611305 Soul strength: 26.70535 Body: 35.993713 Body strength: 33.437016 Body stamina: 30.246649 Body control: 26.205479 Religion: 0.0 Faith: 30.0 Favor: 30.0 Alignment: 100.0 If amounts are good i'll do the math on deed and possessions too.

Wrong, I can't expand any further, deed in every direction. I'm far from the only one, and as i said before, given the cooky 15 tile per animal ratio, i used my perimeter to keep the ratio healthy, excess males/females (that proportion is always off, that's ok) for when i can pair them, and spares for ppl who need horses. NOT FREE, "Free" means one has the option to not take it. It's INCLUDED in the price of the deed, two very different things. BASIC business. I can say with certainty 1500 tiles won't get you a line of 5-speeders started from scratch without using the INCLUDED perimeter as a logical option to balance ratio. I don't cull the parents to avoid inbreeding (what kind of stupid mechanic is that?) because it goes completely against my grain, had to do it IRL a couple of times. There's a phobia mode for arachnophobes, my perimeter is that for my horse breeding program. Besides, griefer fodder perimeter WAS NOT THE DEAL I AGREED TO WHEN I BOUGHT THE DEED. I built and fenced parts of my deed according to that deal, now the value I paid for is slated to go down the drain? I stick by my promise to reverse payments if my perimeter becomes the new playground for cowards who can't look for trouble in their own local bar or pvp servers at that. I'll add to that promise, payments reversed, I'll make sure as many ppl as possible know exactly how to get it done right. In the meantime, not buying another dime of silver until there's a satisfactory response about this that'll be fair to deed-owning CUSTOMERS (key word, here). Not gonna spend money on a silver that can be randomly devalued to 70 copper because the poor little griefers aren't being pampered enough by their mommies or the devs.

I'll just say it bluntly and simply then: Take away the protection on my perimeters (ONLY PERIMETER TILES if i may add), and I'll take my money elsewhere, and payments will be reversed to as far back as possible. This change of rules is NOT the deal I made when I agreed to pay for a 65x23 AND not grief other ppl into not deeding near me in case i'm forced to expand more. Removing protection from perimeter enclosures is a BAD move, lots of deeds CAN'T expand without neighbors disappearing. As for off-deed squatting, I like the 5x5, it's the area i squatted for a couple weeks *safely* long enough to convince me to deed up. Don't punish paying customers trying to curb non-paying ones' benefits. You can find more advice like this if you google "how to avoid corporate suicide".

+1 :3

Btw perimeter would TRULY count as "free" if we had the option to not take one at all. Seeing as how the 5 tiles are *mandatory*, they're not free, they're INCLUDED. Remember that next time you buy a holiday package or such ;-)

Ok... before this company goes full into bait n' switch practices bear this in mind: We were SOLD our deeds(yes, sold, silver = $ ... those who made the silver ingame instead please bite your tongues a sec, we congratulate you, but it's not the topic). The product was sold to us with a mandatory 5-tile perimeter which is usable enough with some properly gatehoused fencing. Said product was also sold to many people long enough ago that they now have no room to expand due to other people purchasing the same product in the inmediate area. So let's sum all the factors. Can't expand over my perimeter, system requires my ratio to be 1 animal per 15 tiles. Add the off-chance of two good horses breeding a triple-badtrait foal here and there. Now this big bad jaguar-feeding guy happens to have offed a couple injured horses in his real life so culling horses, not really his thing... "that's ok" he thinks, "i can perimeter them, great AH exp" (which was a brilliant idea btw). Now I can't expand, can't absorb my perimeter unless 4 deeds disband, but wth let's open his enclosures to griefers. Think Paypal and certain banks would take Wurm's side if enough of their customers decided to reverse all their latest payments? My recommendations, all or mixed should do the job for DEED OWNERS: (I'm not gonna advocate for free landgrabs) 1) Do away with ratio, 1:15 is overkill when in theory 1:3 is enough to go a couple irl days without having to replant grass. 2) ***KEEP THE ENCLOSURE RULES FOR PERIMETER ENCLOSURES THAT ARE PROPERLY GATEHOUSED*** Ownership of a perimeter and edifications on it is way too damn obvious to be missed. Heck, my gatehouses are ON-DEED, and my enclosures don't go past my perimeter. 3) Lower minimum ratio to 1:5 AND allow 0-perimeter deeds, I'd still consider it a filthy money grab, but beats having no option at all other than culling 2/3 of my herd. 4) Don't let GM's handle tickets from within their own alliance and/or friends' list. Need I explain more? 5) Have KOS coverage apply to perimeter and the one tile outside where ppl stand to bash walls? 6) Bounty system, since Freedom is slowly becoming PvP where griefers only have PvE consequences: As in, if a minimum of 5 DEED OWNERS declare a shenanigan on a griefer, that person becomes open for PvP, bounty paid from those who shenanigan'd him. In other words, if you're gonna give griefers new tools, give them new consequences. I'll ask again, are you TRYING to cull down the player population for some weird reason, maybe a tax break if Wurm declares losses this year? In that case you can always just say that directly, people will spend less without having to quit the game. (Edit in anticipation to griefers screaming "yes please" and the incoming reply: READ AGAIN, THE PART WHERE I CAN'T EXPAND UNLESS 4 OTHER DEEDS GO, DO THE FINANCIAL MATH FOR WURM) *chucks credit card into freezer for a while*

Half the hiring and monthly cost of templars and maybe this won't be so heavily bait n' switch, considering that until March 31st you bought one thing when setting up a deed, and today it's something entirely different (and less valuable).

If you want "reality", no ecosystem where predators outnumber prey 100 to 1 is viable. If at least you had larger predators attacking smaller ones, so say trolls hunting down anything in sight when hungry, spiders taking down wolves and brown bears... y'know, give each a "favorite" ...

Don't let horses on large vessels, make sharks want them..... http://i50.tinypic.com/2enoz8h.jpg

Over the past 15 years or so of my online gaming "career", I've seen companies make some really dumb decisions, and then make dumber decisions on how to best implement it on the live servers. This is one of them. Quite high on the list too, the kind that makes one wonder "Are they trying to cull the player population?"

Other thing is perimeter fencing... you know, technically i still got room for dozens of horses but the whole "ratio" mechanic, gotta perimeter quite a few so...... If a griefer can fly into my perimeter fields and off them, I may as well invest in Final Fantasy instead. Would either need to REALLY buff up the rules on legal enclosures and get really hardcore on enforcing them, or allow "0-perimeter" deeds so ppl like myself can absorb their perimeters (save your rethoric, *certain ppl*, i have no room to expand unless I get about 5 people to quit).

You do know the Knarr outclassed all the vessels of its era, right? When did you ever hear of Vikings getting flipped over by a shark?

Not saying you're one of them, but that's exactly what the kind of coward that wants to do PvP damage to others' deeds while only dealing with PvE consequences would say. Y'know.. keyboard warriors... tough online, wouldn't DARE act half as nasty at their local pub.

See, now a max size for legal off-deed enclosure, beyond which you have to build a new one x tiles away for protection to hold, that makes proper amounts of sense. However said rule would have to have its exception for perimeter, SPECIALLY if the gatehouse is on-deed.

+1 collisions -1 jumping and flying unless there's a HEAVY revamp on rules to keep the less savory characters at bay... as things are they're not held accountable much, if they could get over fences effortlessly, their actions would result in LOTS of people quitting.

Let them be, Pinky. We'll see them here in a few weeks when it happens to them and no one shows them sympathy.

Or seal off the area, sounds easier than modifying roads that have been there for several months, many before people deeded over it, gatehouse all the walls to make them "legal" enclosures, and too bad for everyone's whose trip suddenly has 30 minutes added just by going around eh? Oh well, should at least boost the prices of ships.

So if i go to the area of some alliance I dislike, and start tearing up random 1-tile wide roads, digging holes in the path so carts can't path... it's legal, but when does it become "griefing" considering my intent is solely messing with them? They got the tools to fix it, wasn't on deed although smack in the middle of their deed cluster.. maybe i can build some walls between their deeds to quadruple their travel time until they smash them... hmm... You REALLY want the server retaliating back and forth that way? Then we will NEED flying mounts to travel in anything resembling a straight line.

Sooooooooooooo........ --mm-O.O-mm-- Wapin in Germany? =P