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Posts posted by Mordraug

  1. The gaming industry's never gonna become more honest or more customer-oriented as long as there are shills whiteknighting them and saying exactly what they want to hear.  I mean, Nahjos were obviously imbalanced from the beginning, glaringly so.  Did CC address it right there on the spot?  Nope.  Did they have the decency of saying "don't get too attached, this is gonna be nerfed when we get a chance"?  Nope.  They cashed out on it for ages and are now sticking it to the people who trusted them and gambling on a new customer sucker base.


    It's a good thing that CC can't outright pull WU from our hard drives because I'm pretty sure that they would if they could.


    "Let's gamble on this decision, if it backfires, it's the players' loss, not ours... and best part is we won't have to answer for it, there'll always be a white knight or two willing to silence disgruntled clients for us".

  2. New Player:  "Hmmmm WO Steam... let's try it out... ohgodtheslowgrind... ooo... 'Unlimited' ... faster, more modded... seems like a good purchOOOOOOOO no longer updated, screw this.  What else is in the store?"



    Re:  "Not as profitable as we wanted".... Wasn't the players' idea to start giving out 25 cent copies all over the place.  Congrats on screwing those of us who paid full price.  Then again, dollars to donuts that most former WO players on WU left OGWO due to CC's bad decisions.  WU didn't cost CC all those players, CC cost CC all those players and once again makes a point of reminding us why.

  3. 6 hours ago, Ecrir said:


    They'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. Just imagine that there is a really popular mod and the modder quits, dies, whatever. He's gone and since it's obfuscated nobody else can easily make a fork and continue the work. Good way for the modders to kill their own modding scene in the long run.


    Sounds like you cringed heavily at the possibility of WO no longer benefiting from WU mod code.  Let me flip that around, and cringe as a WU player at CC's decision but using your terms:


    WO should make the game open source or they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.  Just imagine if the game gets really popular and staff quits, dies, gets higher-paying jobs, whatever.  They'd be gone and since it's currently obfuscated nobody else can make a fork and continue the work.  Good way for Wurm devs to kill their own game's scene in the long run.


    Naaah, if WU is so unprofitable, CC doesn't need even our mods.  If CC really needs our mods to the point where modders obfuscating their code would be bad for WO players, then maybe they should give us our updates as promised in the first place.

  4. Tldr, regarding WO Steam, in my book it's not something that can be trusted since it could "suffer the same fate as WU".  In other words, I subscribe, pay for a deed, play a certain amount of time the suddenly "heeeeey so it's not as profitable as we thought, we're gonna shut it down kthxbai".  Granted, CC is fully invested in WO so it's not a LIKELY scenario, but I know that as an old WO player... new players however, seeing WU's fate, won't be so easy to convince.


    Meh, their grave not mine. 

  5. 2 hours ago, Jeston said:

    No see, you received the product you paid for in 2014 that is for sure. Not nearly the same as taking money and giving you nothing, read before you respond.


    I bought it (full price) under the premise that was advertised which was that WU would receive WO's core updates, albeit not some features like rifts.  It was not advertised as "will be updated for <x> years at which time we will evaluate whether to continue updating it or not".  Nice try, though.

  6. 3 hours ago, Jeston said:


    There are actually many server owners in WU who took the money and ran, revenant for example.


    If CodeClub is serious about abandoning updates to WU, the same will apply to them =P 

  7. By the way, upgraded GPU recently.  


    It runs FFXIV on full high no problem, yet struggles with Wurm and I haven't even blasted all the settings to their highest.  

    The ideas, the skilling system, the trials and errors, all that is there.  Jagex gave up on Java for a reason.  I think a rewrite IS in order at this point.  Hell, a rewrite BEFORE launching on Steam imho.

  8. 3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

    I think there's quite a difference between the MMO version and the spinoff private server version. 


    A product is a product is a product.


    Not particularly beating myself up over it, but a small part of me regrets paying full price "to support CC" when buying WU instead of waiting for the $1 version to happen.  I repeat my earlier statement that I kinda hope that modders start finding ways to obfuscate their code so that CC has to "code its own".

  9. Let's, once again, run the numbers.  I'll let people decide which one benefits the game more in the long run.


    With RMT

    50s get sold by CC to  Player A... CC gets its $75.  CC has $75.

    Player buys 50k bricks from player B.  CC has $75.

    Player B sells the the 50s to player C for $50.  CC has $75, player B has $50.

    Player C buys 50k dirt from player D.  CC has $75.

    Player D sells the 50s to player E for $50.  CC has $75, Players B and D have $50 each.

    Player E buys 50s worth of tools from player F.  CC has $75.

    Player F sells the 50s for $50 to player G.  CC has $75, Players B, D, and F have $50 each.

    The same 50s circulate through a limited number of hands, CC only made money off those silvers once for development and advertising.  In short, CC has $75 to develop the game and advertise.  Yes, some of that silver may go into upkeep instead, in which case CC would STILL have $75 and BDF would have $40 each.  Same---friggin---difference.


    Without RMT

    50s get sold by CC to  Player A... CC gets its $75.  CC has $75.

    Player A buys 50k bricks from player B.  CC has $75.

    Player B sells the the 50s to player C for $50 has 50s to expand/buy ingame goods.  CC has $75, player B has more stuff.

    Player C buys 50s off CC to buy 50k dirt from player D.  CC has $150

    Player D sells the 50s to player E for $50 spends 50s like B.  CC has $150, Players B and D more stuff.

    Player E buys 50s off CC to buy 50s worth of tools from player F.  CC has $225

    Player F sells the 50s for $50 to player G also uses his silver on stuff.  CC has $225, Players B, D, and F 50s of stuff/land each.

    Players B, D, and F have used their ingame earnings to expand their deeds (more upkeep income for CC, more bling for them) and/or purchased stuff from other players not listed here which means cash *flowing* in the *economy*, CC now has $225 instead of $75 to spend on development and advertising.  At this point, players could even get to a point where they can try to coax CC into lowering 50s to $50, and CC would still have twice the amount of money from this fictitious example than it would have had with RMT (That is to say $150 vs $75).


    Sooooooooo the benefit of a few silver re-sellers vs the benefit of the company that runs and develops the whole game for the whole player population.


    I say swive RMT.

    "It would ruin wurm because with-RMT BDF would leave!!!!!!!!" .... mmmmmmmeeh, they weren't generating income for CC and ACEG would find someone else to buy their bricks, dirts, and tools from anyways, namely non-RMT BDF's.

  10. Okey dokey, then, let's go there.


    On 10/22/2019 at 6:01 AM, Patreus said:



    Complete nonsense. Not to mention you failed to even bullet it properly.

    (1) The "wilderness feel" you mention will last 2 weeks maximum. Why? because "new players can be destructive" (your own words). Newbies (and old players starting over) will make a mess in no time, with terraforms and "roads all over". *snip* On the contrary, a separate new server will cease to be wilderness very quickly, because you will have more people in less space, compared to the many, already empty, Freedom servers.

    Flattened out, pre-terraformed land = wilderness feel... indeed.  And then you open a mine and it's full of old tunnel.

    (2) "People like coastal. Good luck on an old server": Nonsense "argument" again; Xanadu itself was yet another server that was not needed (not to mention Xanadu's many problems). Existing servers are full of empty coastal spots, not only in Xanadu but also in all other servers; and it couldn't be otherwise because ALL servers are pathetically low-populated. So who exactly takes over the coastal spots? The tiny playerbase that could fit in one server only?

    Check out (1)

    (3) "Clear rock layer": yet another nonsense. Have a tour around Wurm, man. Go to Deliverance and tell me how much of wasteland you will find still standing. I can recall 5 or 6 deeds on west coast, the rest is no man's land, I can easily find a spot and set a mining colony if I wanted to. There are a few old mines, most of them collapsed, and the rest is free for the taking. Pristine is full of thick rock layer you can mine and create your dream underground land.

    Because you know the land, have explored it for ages.  And "mining colony" =/= main deed for a new player.

    (4) The old-versus-new-players "argument" you tried is just silly. New servers will be full of old players playing a fresh toon; those will have a clear HUGE advantage against newbies. So the exact same issues with perimeters and whatnot will happen. I saw it happening myself on Pristine, back when it was a new separate server.

    They won't have you to deal with, great start.  And old players going in there know what they're getting into, that is a land of destructive newbies.

    (5) About the "market" argument you mention: Yeah, sure, none of the veterans will play on new servers; not even one of them. It will be a pure newbie community, so newbies will "have a shred of a chance at a market spot before the veterans take over". Seriously man, are you THAT naive? *snip*
    Your reading comprehension is about as advanced as your vocabulary.  "At least with a fresh server, the ones who catch on to mechanics faster will have a shred of a chance at a market spot before the veterans take over."

    (6) The Steam arguments doesn't really deserve any answer. Let me just point out Quality of Life doesn't need any new server; they introduced "QoL" changes in the past; some "purists" didn't like it, and the dust settled in a matter of days.  

    Once again, you were apparently frothing at the mouth too badly at this point to read and understand the statement before answering.  "QoL which would make loud purists shriek to the heavens can be applied without "ruining" OGWO.  Gives time to figure out how to handle that for if/when the merge finally happens."

    (7) What you call "Wurm classic" is dying already, and new Steam separate servers will be the final nail on its coffin. If you can't see that you are blind. Steam is popular, despite the fact it sucks. Freedom servers will be even more deserted, forcing the remaining oldies to either quit playing, or moving to Steam servers - if they can stand the Steam crap, of course.  

    If OGWO is dying, then why in hell would they use THAT as their model for the new endeavor?  To have it die again with the added bonus of Steam review death?  RMT-favoring, resistance to changes that would improve QoL, and having to cater to account-recyclers who would not see the status quo changing in favor of new players to keep their "market" are what killed it.  The new Steam servers could be tweaked around attracting and keeping new players instead of ancient accounts that dominate the markets over and over.


    Furthermore, none of you addressed the fact new servers will be on Steam only. Let's say new separate servers are needed (they aren't, but let's say I agree with you). Even then, why exactly new servers must be on Steam only? New players could just join the new servers via Steam if they want; others could join the new servers without Steam. Simple, and not restricting.


    Steam itself is a DRM galore, not to mention the bugs. Nevertheless, I have no problem with it, as long I have the freedom not to use it.  You do have the freedom to not use it, stay on OGWO.

    If you guys like DRM, enjoy Steam as much you like, provided others still have the option to stay away of it. But Steam-only servers, if they succeed, will kill Freedom servers thus killing the freedom to play without Steam. You want new separate servers so desperately? I checked, the beers in my freezer are still the same brand. It's a mistake but ok, go ahead and do it. Just NOT Steam-only servers. And don't tell me they need to be Steam servers for some technical reason, because Samool and Rolf already said they MIGHT connect them to the existing Freedom servers in the future, so it is possible to have a new separate cluster not depending on Steam from day one. They just don't want to do it; they want new servers to be Steam-only. I tried to guess why they insist on that in a previous post.


    I can see why they want Wurm on Steam. Sadly, Wurm is dying, and they hope Steam might save it because it's popular. "More audience, more people joining, more money for the company, Wurm is saved". It's not that simple, though. The best Steam can do is to increase Wurm playerbase for a few months, probably 2 or 4 months maximum. Then playerbase will inevitably drop again, because the "honeymoon" is over. And the question is how much it will drop. What will keep people playing Wurm is the gameplay, not Steam. While disconnected from OGWO, tweaks like speeding things up could be added without "ruining" the original. Wurm is by nature a slow-paced game; I am perfectly fine with slow-paced gameplay, but most people aren't, thus you can never expect a huge playerbase. If I were to guess, I'd say Steam will not have a huge permanent change on Wurm playerbase. It will certainly increase the playerbase, but not too much in the long term. If that's enough to save Wurm, I don't know.


    Besides, you're clearly desperate to get a shot at the new servers and are just throwing a tantrum because you don't like the conditions to do so.  Now I can't help but hope that if the merge does happen, it means all servers becoming Steam-only.

  11. "Slurp-slurp"?  XD


    And thus endeth any attempt to take thee seriously.


    Back on topic:

    I strongly recommend hand-sculpting those Steam maps (And/or having a community contest.  There are different tools to edit heightmaps and some pretty glorious stuff can be made before seeding them with mapgen.  If said contest were held I'd gladly share a few tricks learned the hard way there to get cool stuff like mixed forests that feel natural).


    Reason to hand sculpt the maps:  More coast, demand will be massive and rather key to player retention.  Ditto on islands, but also proper valleys and hidden glens to cater to the smaller but still existent amount of hermits and inlanders.  Also mountain paths to reach the tops of SOME (not all!) peaks.  The new maps have to outright SHINE to be successful.  Think I still got one buried in old backups that I'm particularly proud of, inde-sized one.  There also has to be a mix of smoothed and roughed out areas, too much of either a boring or frustrating map doth make.


    On that note, PvP maps should have a ***relative*** "symmetry" and intentional choke points if you want some form of strategy to matter (and would also be conductive to developing new forms of gameplay).  No offense, dev team, but tap into the community brain pool for those.  We're better at map making that Code Club =P 

  12. Don't mind the guy, Samool.  You'll always have a small group of people who REFUSE to use evil Steam, because Steam steals your data, hijacks your soul, changes your beer brand, indoctrinates your children into the Flat Earth Society, and turns your pets against you.  And they'll make sure to make their voice loudly heard from Chrome/Chrome-based browsers while Googling stuff on a separate tab ^_^


    @Patreus:  I'll simplify it for you.  Why Steam?  Because having your game on Steam is the equivalent of tens of thousands of dollars of advertisement by simply having it there.  If you want access to the new servers, install Steam.  Your beers won't be changed in the middle of the night and your pets will still love you.

  13. 6 hours ago, Patreus said:

    So give me a goddamn reason for introducing new servers, under Steam or not.


    Bullet points?  BULLET POINTS! 


    • People like the wilderness feel. Unless you go into deep Xanadu, ain't no such thing.  Old terraforms, fences, roads all over.
    • People like coastal.  Good luck on an old server, specially if you wanted a blank slate.
    • Clean rock layer.  If the surface is a wasteland of old deeds, it's no better underground and newbies don't know the first thing about mining warnings.  Don't wanna lose them on day 2.
    • New players can be DESTRUCTIVE in their innocence, which would lead to:
    • Old players hating their guts and making no small secret of it as new players start digging up their perimeters not knowing what a perimeter is.
    • Let them create their own market.  At least with a fresh server, the ones who catch on to mechanics faster will have a shred of a chance at a market spot before the veterans take over.
    • It'll give CC time to figure out how to keep the RMT out of the Steam version and not risk running afoul of Steam policies.
    • QoL which would make loud purists shriek to the heavens can be applied without "ruining" OGWO.  Gives time to figure out how to handle that for when the merge finally happens.
    • If SteW (what I just decided to call Steam Wurm), with the extra QoL and new maps became popular enough, there'd be the option of keeping it separate and calling OGWO "Wurm Classic", a place where the Doctrines of Wurm are followed to the letter while SteW'ers have all the fun.

  14. 2 hours ago, Tenniel said:

    By creating a split with WU, that constructive relationship between WO and WU will end, at the cost of WO.


    Trudat, would be sad but not unexpected if modders started to find ways to mask their code so that CC can't use it.  That aside, new mods would be for the old code, making them gradually harder and harder to include into WO's code.

  15. 17 minutes ago, bdew said:


    So you see no problem with alienating people and breaking promises after they already paid money for a product? How can people trust their "new" steam release when they are abandoning their "old" steam release that people already payed for? How can players of that new version trust CodeClub to not abandon them a few months down the line when they realize that steam isn't bringing them the money they wanted to see?



    Not getting rifts and Challenge, that was expected as it was part of <the promise> so to speak.


    And another thing to consider, CC.... WU will eventually be far behind enough to become "Wurm Classic" *hint nudge*.

  16. 14 hours ago, Retrograde said:

    I prefer the idea of blueprints as well, selling the starter material allows the crafting element to remain. 



    Not even selling the materials, I'd prefer making use of existing currently "useless" materials.


    Say for example:  Trimming armor (sorry art team).  Use gold and silver which aren't THAT used, slap some jewels into the trimming, make them require emerald/diamond/ruby/opal.  Could use the same art asset with some modification and sell a second recipe for trimming armor but with STAR gems which don't see that much use beyond sorcery.  Down the same line, have armors made with the "meta" materials (iron, steel, moonmetal) but in "ornate" versions to involve some brass and such into the mix.   Same concept can go for weapons, as well as craftable shoulderpads and masks.  And need I say barding?  (If someone likes the idea, suggestions' forums could use a revival of this topic with more detailed thoughts).