Zera

I've been in contact with 2 other breeders on Northern Freedom Isles, Harmony to be exact and we've all noticed that our Female "Rare Colors" don't appear to be passing on their color trait to any offspring. So far I've bred two Black Silver horses together and wound up with a Black foal. I expected to see a Black Silver offspring as both parents shared the same coat trait. I'm getting similar instances from my fellow horse breeders. Is this in fact a bug or are we all incredibly unlucky?

-.- The two of you, enough. You're now offtopic entirely.

Here's that keyword and you've said it yourself. Not everyone considers Deed Planner to be "part of the game", let alone use it in the first place. Although if we are to consider such a tool "part of the game" then there are plenty of other tools out there that I suppose also fall into that category, now don't they? Asking for a "Why is this considered part of the game" isn't too much to ask. You don't have the say-so of why or what qualifies any of them to be considered so. So far I cannot help but feel you're just here to try to argue that "Deed Planner is approved, stop it already!" at this point... However having you nearly constantly repeating yourself as to "this should be enough for you!" essentially is not constructive and not getting anyone, anywhere except extremely annoyed if anything.

At least someone here understands why I'm a little puzzled by this decision here and why they have come to said ruling on the matter. Except as I pointed out with your Mine example that your Mine Layout is planned and plotted in-game and recorded based on in-game action. Where as a Deed Planner blueprint is not. Exportation of a chunk of land is hardly considered "gathering data" by any means. Especially when said actions are not performed in anyway in-game by the seller. Yes, the original question has been answered and solved. Glad that was enough for what seems like most of you to consider the door closed and move on with your lives having truly been none-the-wiser on the subject. Some of us however, cannot just accept a "Yes" or "No" without the logic behind it and an understanding of the "Why". Simply because the "Why" is what answers so many other questions and grey-areas and propositions and so forth. I am not the only one who is confused by this ruling on the matter and would like to know, as I've stated several times now, where is that line drawn. So your answer has been provided. Glad I could help by asking it for you I suppose. Now please, move on so I can get the rest of the answers I'm seeking.

Still waiting on that clarification from official source on how this decision was made in the end. No longer giving the community the time of day as they either cannot or refuse to understand what it is I'm looking for an answer to.

Not when it leaves me with so many other questions... -.- And I will not be bullied by the rest of you to just stop asking to have those questions officially answered, because so far it's apparent no non-Wurm-Team can understand my other questions. No one said any of you had to be here, following the thread or otherwise.

THE NEW QUESTION: If no out of game service or assets can be sold/traded for in-game silver. Why then, does a Deed Planner file which is exported from a game (by the requesting player), edited outside of a game (by the selling player), saved to a file/format outside of a game and then sent as an out-side-of-game file, considered an in-game service/asset? Is this not a form of RMT as it is a "service" provided outside of game, away from the game, and produced entirely as a file separate from the game? I am all for "Deed Plan earn Silver" but the technical use of Deed Planner to do it and the trading of a Deed Planner File in exchange for Silver itself, which was created entirely separate from game mind you, is not part of the game. So why is this outside service, outside file, outside action considered an OK form of RMT? OR What makes it not an RMT? Where is this line drawn that makes a Deed Planner File, OK and considered as an in-game service? When I think of "in-game" service or asset, I think of something that can be performed in-game, put into a trade-window in-game or unloaded/loaded to a cart/wagon/ship in-game. Deed Planner does not fall under any of these categories.

"A Deed Design is within the Realms of selling services for silver" when referencing a Deed Planner plan file. IS saying Deed Planner files in exchange for Silver is allowed. A Deed Planner FILE that is created, edited, altered, and sent offline Wurm. I'm starting to feel as though you are the one who is looking to nitpick here and read as you want to read. "Out of game assets". I've already covered this, but for what appears to be your sake of nitpicking, you appear to have ignored every statement I've made on the matter. Stop skipping around and trying to take things out of context. You take my examples in reply to someone else's statements and attempt to twist and use them here in a whole other light. Just stop.. This is the big red flag that says to me you're trying to nitpick at anything I say now. Especially considering this was not in any reference to anything that Retro or any other Member of the Team has said here... Then stop beating your own Dead Horse, because you're obviously not understanding what I'm continuing to ask here and are only looking to start nitpicking at anything I've said and either: A. Taking it entirely out of context. B. Completely ignoring where and why I've said the things I have, ergo not entirely following this thread here and are just picking and choosing where you wanna pick up from... ERGO: Taking things out of context C. Don't look at things the way I see them and have your own personal way of understanding and accepting things and thus CANNOT understand my confusion and NEED for an understanding of the current situational question. TLDR: The Question has Changed! Stop trying to twist every little thing I've said out of context and try to sound all "I'm smurt" because you're only making yourself look like you're not following anything at all.

Creating/Editing a Deed Planner file only requires an initial Export from a token by the Deed Mayor. Beyond that there is no further in-game action taken, and certainly none from those who sell the Deed Planner plan. By surveying or checking data in a mine, all actions are taken in-game except for the logging of the data. Whether it be in this similar format or otherwise. An ingame character is still going tile by tile, examining, prospecting, each tile to gather that data. The two are by no means comparable in this regard. It is not exactly about how it's presented at this point, rather than where and how the work itself is done. Since the argument has become "in-game service" apparently. And while I understand that exporting a Deed to DeedPlanner is the most efficient route to go about it, I still cannot say from where I stand that I can consider it an "in-game service" as there is no "in-game" about it. It goes from a file produced by the game, to a file sold to a player, so that the purchasing player can then work towards recreation of the file. There is no actual "in-game labor" that is occuring for me to consider it "an in-game service".

Who said the artwork wouldn't be game related though? What if said artwork is an oil painting of your Deed? Isn't that game related?

First off, this is absolutely ridiculous and Wurm or CodeClub has no say what-so-ever in whatever I choose to do with my own personal Product, whether it's art or my car. If I decide to trade it with someone or give it away for free, they have ZERO legal say on the matter. It is not their property. When any such content pertains to in-game, then they can control that. But if I decided to just hand you a piece of art/graphic of my own accord without Wurm involvement or trade in return, that is my prerogative and right to do so. It is my property 100% and Wurm has absolutely no claim or legal power over it. Period. I believe here they are actually referring to in-game goods or services for other outside-game goods or services. AKA RMT transactions. Not that their requiring anyone who so chooses to make trade outside of game goods/services entirely.

But here's where that big ol' question keeps coming up, according to Retrograde: Deed Planner (A Deed Design) is approved as an In-Game transaction and thus should be expected to trade Silver for said service. Despite there being no "physical in-game" trade of any kind occuring. So no, YOU don't have to explain anything. WURM needs to explain everything. Because apparently DEED PLANNER is considered an in-game transaction despite there being no in-game physical interaction occuring outside of handing off Silver. In which case is no different than an RMT action. Yet it is approved transaction as per stated by Retrograde. So anyone else here trying to tell me that X or Y is or isn't OK is no longer answering any of my questions because I'm not asking you. I am looking for OFFICIAL STATEMENT as to WHY Deed Planner's obvious RMT transaction is considered an OK and Approved Transaction within' game, despite the before mentioned points. But Retrograde said: "This Allowed" THIS is occurring and I want to know WHY THIS is approved Obviously, but I suppose you need to try to keep up here. Since you're missing bits and pieces of the problem I am having here because as everyone has apparently missed, there's been made an exception and it's obvious you've missed that because you've used that exact exception in your examples....

thanks

And where can I find that?

Has anyone else had a problem with the Seasons not displaying properly on the new Northern Freedom servers? [20:58:24] It is 22:27:49 on Wrath day in week 2 of the starfall of the Leaf in the year of 1095. Which should put us at: Leaf Starfall - Oleander (week 2), Camellia (week 4), The problem is the Assistant is showing me that Olives are in Season with Maples coming up next. Even though Assistant is showing "Wrath in week 2 of Leaf starfall" in the Assistant too when I pull up the Calendar.

Except all you've quoted here is "Silver has no real world value" and "approves of sharing User Generated Material based on video, music, sound or screenshots from our game Wurm Online." Which clarifies absolutely nothing about Selling for In-Game coin or Real World Cash. Sharing is not defined as "Selling" or "Trading". All this says is "Silver does not have a Real World Cash value" and "You can share screenshots, videos, music and sounds from our game". It clarifies nothing about trades for Graphics that are not from in-game for in-game coin. Nor does it clarify why Deed Planner images/files are considered in-game assets when they are not actually/technically/factually in-game rather than what they are as representation of in-game. Which as I've stated to you twice or more now, was the intent of this post. Looking for Official statement on what, why and how these things are considered to be what they are and handled how they are.

Except you skipped the part where Retrograde has stated before you that it is not allowed. Apparently using In-Game silver for any "out of game service" is against the rules. This includes, Art, Images, Videos, Music and one would think Deed Planner plan-files. EXCEPT Deed Planner plan-files ARE allowed. Despite the fact that they are created, used and an entirely out-of-game thing. There is nothing tangible in-game in this trade-off for a tangible in-game silver. Which is where all my questions here are coming from, as to why this is an OK format and allowed, where-as others are not. When there is no Real World Currency involved in any way shape or form in my proposed question, it's not OK. However a Deed Planner file can be counted as both OK and Not OK because it is not technically an in-game asset so it can be sold for RMT as well as Silver.

You can just stop quoting the ToS now, because I can't see you really going anywhere with this that is in anyway related or helpful to the discussion at hand here. According to "Wurm" yes. Because it is both Wurm Assets and Not Wurm Assets. So it can be sold for both in-game coin and RMT. Which is exactly again, part of that deep grey area that is unclear.

I have to say you've gone beyond my level of comprehension here and I've zero idea what you're even talking about at this point. You go on to talk about in-game silvers and yet have seemed to completely skip over what this post is for/asking/discussing in the long run?

I'm just trying to understand why a certain format is OK for some things but not for others. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer to this, other than "wurm assets" and "in-game" which can be taken in all kinds of different ways and argued in various different approaches. So wanting a clarification of what it is exactly that says X is OK vs Y is Not, I don't feel is too much to ask. In the case of Wurm and Steam it is always better to be 100% clear than to play around in a grey-area and take a risk that can otherwise lead to a ban without question. So because of that, yes. I will make all the "lawyer style points" as you call them, to get clarity on what is and is not acceptable. This is in some way identical to my originally proposed question. Art of some form presented for us with and for wurm. This however is entirely different, this is a task taken place directly in-game. How the results are portrayed is completely irrelevant. With Deed Planner, everything is done out-of-game, from the moment the land is exported to the file sent back to the requesting player in exchange for Silvers for a File/Link that is presented outside of game. Yes the browsers are third party, yes the Forums themselves are "Wurm" as stated in the ToS and Acceptance agreements. The argument thus far from "Wurm" (Staffing) has been "in-game assets" or can be taken as "Used in-game/for game". It's not the same as "I"ll paint your IRL fence for in-game silvers" as the IRL fence has 0 to do with Wurm itself. That said this Deed Planner program "is of and for Wurm" which is what I've taken to be as the "For Wurm" argument here. So yes, I get literal, technical and down to the ugly nitty gritty when I'm trying to make a point and make a point to understand exactly where a line is. Apologies if it's coming off "brash" or "forceful" but as I've said I want to know exactly where this line is. If a Shop/Deed Banner, even using in-game images and items is considered a "out of game/not for wurm" feature than I would expect to see no repercussions for marketing such a service for IRL cash and no backlash for doing so. Whether these images were used on these forums or elsewhere as they are not "Wurm assets" they do not belong to Wurm and cannot in any way be tied directly to the game and therefore punishable as a Real World Trade. Or art depicting an ingame character and their Deed or otherwise, be seen as "profiting from RWT from Wurm" in that regard either. This "Grey Area" goes both ways here, both for In-Game Silver Trade and for RMT transactions. I feel it needs to be made 100% clear, no questions asked clear on what is and isn't considered "In-Game" vs "Real World" here.

Then you are entirely missing the question of this thread was posted for. This was absolutely nothing involved with Real World Currency at all.

No Silver bought ingame can leave the game.. It's simply not possible, so this is kind of pointless statement to make. Deed Planner is a third-party program though, regardless of whether or not Wurm has allowed an integration between the two. It's still not technically "Wurm" it's an outside tool. Which is where that "Grey area" I mentioned comes into play. It isn't Wurm nor Wurm Assets so much as it is an outside Tool/Service for wurm. I'm not saying that having someone offer Deed Planning services should be against said rules, but it's definitely on that fine-line of where is it considered OK and Not OK in that regard? I mean, if I were to come up with a Third Party tool that let you take all of the Wurm Online assets and combine them into an image of sorts with some additional what-ever on it. That would be no different than the Deed Planner and still no different than what I was originally asking within this thread either. Yet we're looking at Deed Planner as an extensionion of Wurm simply because you can export from in the game? Or because it's so common place now? I fail to understand what it is exactly about this third-party tool that makes it OK to market for in-game coin specifically when it isn't anything more than "outside game art" itself. Who's to say the "art" proposed here wasn't a hand-drawn/painted deed plan too? I want to know exactly what that line is and why there appears to be this grey-area of exception.

If the only argument here is "game assets" then does Deed Planner files not also fall into this category? Deed Planner files are out-of-game assets only intended for use with wurm. No matter which way you look at it. The same could be said for someone making a collage of images of in-game, whether that be of a Deed, Player, Items and so forth to produce a file itself. While yes a "Deed Plan" is considered an in-game service, but with the use of Deed Planner and the exchange of said Deed Planner file (which isn't a game asset) creates that deepening "grey area". It's the exact same thing no matter how you look at it here. Deed Planner files are not "game assets" any more than someone selling a screenshot or a collection of screenshots from within the game itself. This is a very horrible grey area you're creating by allowing the selling of Deed Planner files and then claiming "Game Assets" when Deed Planner itself is not game assets and only represents said game assets. And if we're to look at the "For use in game" would not a Shop-Banner or Deed-Banner for a thread post considered "in-game" to the same degree? Deed Planner files are a representation of in-game, which is the same argument that could be applied to a Deed's Banner, Shop's Banner, etc;

I have to agree here, using Deedplanner to come up with a design and layout for someone else's deed certainly counts as an "outside game" service. Yes it is FOR in the game, just as what my original question was. Offering to create a Banner for a Shop Ad or something of the like could be seen in the exact same way. Deedplanner Image/Plan FILE sent to a user in exchange for in-game silver isn't any different than Graphic Image sent to a user in exchange for in-game silver They're both a FILE or IMAGE sent a user in exchange for in-game silver. They're both used in relation to Wurm Online by the user. It would be nice to have an official statement on this one.

Emberwynn Harbor is looking for self-starters! Located on Harmony at North West G9 We're a Harbor-Market Village, a self-sufficient Deed with most Main-Skills covered and looking for more to add to our numbers and assist in the larger demands of both the Deed and our Market presence. We're a Mature-Deed looking for like-minded individuals who are looking to work as a team/unit and a close-knit "family". We are not looking for immature or selfish players, we are not a group for people who prefer to keep to themselves or are looking to strictly focus on a single skill, (also known as skilling). While we are supportive of specializing in certain skills, we are not a Skiller Village! We're welcoming of new and old players alike! It's OK if you have no idea of what you're doing, we're happy to help you learn how Wurm works! Requirements: Discord We use Discord for out-of-game communication! This is used to place "work-orders" or requests for the other members of the Deed. EX: Need a new Tool but don't blacksmith? Put in a Work-Order! Need a Cart, Ship or Wagon? Put in a Work-Order! Willing to work with others We are a single unit and expect each member to contribute in anyway they can. Whether it's by assisting in preparing materials such as Planks, Shafts or helping to full-fill General Work-Orders and Market-Place orders. Mature We're not claiming to be the most poised folks, we have our immature moments with jokes and arguments but what family doesn't? We do however expect there to be no fowl play and to understand when you've crossed a line. Willing to participate in Trades Being a Harbor-Market we offer all of Northern Freedom Isles trade and Order-Filling. This means if you choose to specialize in a certain area you must be willing to participate in the sale of said specialization. EX: Fine Carpentry Wagons; Blacksmith Tools; Shipbuilding Ships If you choose not to focus a single-skill, that's OK too. We won't force you to! We do however appreciate assistance in full-filling orders and split the earnings evenly between all Deed-Mates who help out. Notes: If you can't afford Premium, we still want you! We will do everything we can to help you Earn your Premium in-game! We do expect you to respect other people's space and belongings. We share everything, meaning all Carts and Transportation is unlocked for Deed-Mates and is expected to be treated with care and respect! We offer space for Personal Housing! You're welcome to build your own Structure within reason of course for your own Private housing. This can be a place you leave your tools, private items, etc; So long as you are not "stealing" from another Deed-Mate and trying to lock away someone else's items that were loaned to you, we will respect your space. We feed you! We have a lovely chef who works hard to make sure we're all well fed. Never have to worry about having your Food Bar full or reaching your full CCFP's again! We also provide Custom-To-You affinity of your choice pizzas! Current Villager Count: 5 If you are interested in joining us, you can PM any Council member listed below: Ferrix Kellen We do have an evaluation period before all access is granted. This is to ensure that we are a good-fit together. You wouldn't want to play with someone who you were afraid would come along and steal your belongings or destroy your house would you? We hope to hear from you soon! You can come and say "Hello!" here: https://discord.gg/7z7b8Gw