Cista

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Never over, Libila sent!

I have been having deeds on PvE for 11 years now, and never had any griefing done to me around them. The PvE community is and remains amazing. This thread however is a litany of toxic PvP player abuse. Any PvE player that sees it will remind themselves never to go to PvP.

More skins added, some prices lowered.

Selling off my collection of old loyalty skins at what I hope is fair prices. Some of them were available at Black Friday 2023. If you know any of them have been in a monthly rerun, let me know. Bear Army Statuette - 8s Claymore - 7s (2 available) Decorative Flowers - 8s (2 available) Dragon Statuette - 7s (2 available) Festive Light of the Gods - 8s (2 available) Jewelry Casket - 7s (2 available) Menacing Medium Maul - 10s Messer - 8s Skeleton Chest - 10s (2 available) Small Prickly Cactus - 12s Sold for 5s at Black Friday 2023: Bjarne Backpack - 6s Seeker's Lantern - 8s Sigvard's Wrath - 6s (2 available) Winged Helm - 10s Selling for 15s in the silver shop right now: Sturdy large chest - 10s Delivery: easy pickup on Deliverance c16, or I can maybe sail to you.

I'll take them.

Please send 1 Autumn wreath to Cista, thank you

11s

Trading Post!

Seconded, worth considering. Indie games that I've played like Mortal, DarkFall or Gloria Victis never had auctions in their auction houses. EVE doesn't have auctions in the Market, they have(had) it in another interface that sucks. Even a major studio MMO like New World does not have auctions in their trading post.

There is also the overall ingame economy to think about. Wurm has generally been in deflation, as tools etc have become of less and less value. Making many more items available in the market will increase deflation. And then what happens with the proposed fee: You would like a thriving auction house with e.g. 30,000 items for sale. Well that is 100,000 copper per day = 1,000 silver per day = 300,000+ silver per year that players are losing to the fees. That in itself will make deflation even worse. We know that because EVE have regulated trade fees when they wanted to influence inflation or deflation.

There is that. That's great then. As I said elsewhere, in fixed-price items there is not the same worries of auction manipulation. ' Great idea! I've never seen it implemented in another game, but they should definitely do this.

Good question, but in the opening post they only talk about actual auctions, for example: "The rules of auctions change from post to post, sometimes bid disputes etc happen." "it must provide the features that auctions use such as starting bid, minimum bid increment, buyout options, sniper protection, etc."

Right well here it is important to remember that 99 % of trade in game is not auctions. I agree that if we look at the total sale of (fixed-price) items that can potentially be sold in an auction house, people will surely need more than 5 ongoing sales. And I probably have the exact correct answer, maybe it's 20 ongoing or more. Right now they have said they will start with auctions only though, will see how it goes.

Yes it is true that it is not a problem for me to find a hammer if there are 300 axes for sale, if I can just filter. But if there are 300 of the item I want, it depends on how apt is the filter mechanism. The real problem for the devs seem to be they fear a bogged down, lagged interface if there are tens of thousands of items. They are right, if newbies are allowed to put up hundreds of wood scrap with no limitation. Launches of many games have shown this, last I was in Gloria Victis and the market was simply unavailable for much of the time in the beginning due to overload. Even EVE has had that. The problem that I see personally is that spam from capable players inevitably leads to market crash. If I am a crafter, and want to sell some highish QL item in the AH and I see there is one for sale at 1s and one for 50c, I would price mine close to the 1s. However, if there are 20 for sale at 50c, people will price theirs below 50c. The spammer will then put up 20 more for 40c, and down the rabbithole we go. It's important to remember that the traveling barrier and "forum barrier" that have been in place has helped curb the deflation. Once we have absolutely free trade through the mail box, markets are guaranteed to crash, it's just a matter of how hard we want them to crash. Some people have already posted how much they are looking forward to emptying their entire unsellable inventory and/or merchant stocks into the AH.

Many have said it, and I will add my voice: That is not reducing spam, that is just punishing the newish players with low- and mid-tier items. High volume high level players, if they find profit in selling 2 items, they will find profit in selling 20 items. Newish players will not set up a 25c item, and then pay 15c for a 5-day auction, plus sell fee. The way to combat spam is to reduce the number of items a player can sell. 5 ongoing auctions for a premium player and 1 ongoing for a non-prem player. Very simple.

But I do. A lot. And I also hold auctions every month. So forgive me for not taking your advise on how much to bid, and for believing I am the one with better knowledge on how secure the auctions are and how often they are rigged. They are hardly ever rigged on the forum because of the documentation. And this is why, and sorry for repeating myself for the third time, big auctions in games like EVE remained on the forums. So to sum up, I am not at all opposed to them experimenting with an ingame auction house. It will be a fun addition. But the fact is, I would never bid high price on a wagon if the opponent bidders are anonymous and/or all traces of the auction disappear after the fact. A seller would be better off having that auction on the forum.

And you can make that judgment, because it is all documented right here on the forum. When I am bidding on an auction for a PMK wagon or whatever, I always take into account the reputation of the opponent. If it is a known person I go all in. If it is a non-entity I stop bidding at a lower price, but I also know that the documentation of the bids of that entity will remain preserved and relevant. That is also the advantage of a forum auction. And yet another advantage is you can use a two-year old auction as price check, which I also do all the time.

I don't understand why you keep saying that. The downside of rigging the forum auction is that I and others will never buy anything from these two clowns again. They have named and shamed themselves. That consequence would never happen in the ingame auction house, where there is no documentation of anything once the auction is removed, and bidders may even be anonymous during the auction.

Too many naive/uninformed remarks in this thread really. No, a public auction on the forum is not "trading". Once your item is up for auction on a public forum thread, it should be considered not your item anymore until the auction is finished. If you want to privately "trade" to a subset of players, don't put your item on the official forum auction list. Canceling the auction because you don't like the bidder should be bannable. Getting your friend to manipulate an auction for you is OBVIOUSLY a bannable offense. And to those that say this cannot happen once we have an auction house in game, it is the exact opposite that will happen. Dodgy players will have their friends and their alts bidding and manipulating the price on auctions and cheating you out of your money, and there will be NO trace of what happened. And I repeat myself, but this is why in serious games like EVE, auctions to this date still take place on the forums, even though there is an auction interface ingame. The forum auctions have a paper trail, the ingame auctions do not. The integrated "Marketplace" in EVE is for fixed-price items, and in most other MMOs 90-95 % ( I am spitballing) of Auction House sales is also fixed-price.

FYI, money-sink = less money for you = deflation = everybody have a harder time paying for upkeep. Because upkeep and premium subscription are the only things that don't get cheaper with deflation.

Thanks for all these clarifications!

a) well most players hate high fees, there is already 3-4 people in this thread emploring the devs NOT to apply such high fees. b) There is not much cheating on the forum auctions. I hardly ever see an auction where two actual players bid each other up to a certain point, only for a non-entity account to swoop in and take the auction at the last minute. It will cast suspicions and the history will remain there. In the anonymous AH there is no such visibility. As soon as the cheater finishes the auction, all trace of what happened vanishes forever. Btw this is also why serious auctions in EVE Online are still done on the FORUM, even though ingame auctions exist since forever. So I am torn on this, on one hand I think they should remove the forum side, but on the other hand it could mean trouble. If it was me, I would primarily make the ingame auction house fixed-price section, replacing WTS forum. But there is 0 % chance they will do that I guess.

Ugh this is actually a super important point that I didn't consider. And it's not easily solved. In the forums there is at least a tiny bit of transparency/accountability, this will be lost with the automation. Thinking about it, I don't think they can solve that easily. And maybe the AH should be focused on fixed-price sales instead, which are in a way more upfront and transparent. In the game with the most succesful player economy, EVE Online, ingame auctions are a redundancy and 99.9% of sales are fixed-price listings. Auctions for very valuable unique items are to date still held on the FORUMS. And so it is in many games.

The idea of starting an AH is great. Starting it only with actual auctions is also fine, but do it fully and not half-measured. That is, implement it and then remove the forum auctions. Having both forum auctions and ingame auctions going forward will just frustrate us all. And everyone absolutely hates AH taxes that are over 1 %. Don't go that way, simply limit each premium player to 5 ongoing auctions, non-premium players to 1 ongoing auction. This allows newbies to sell a product but curbs alt-farming. And once you have the AH, you should also allow fixed price sales, then remove the WTS section of the forum. Again limit the number of sales a player can have at one time. EDIT: after reading comments and contemplating, I now think it's better to have the AH focus on the fixed-price items, and let actual auctions stay on the forums, This is how it has worked best in EVE always anyway. The limits to number of ongoing sales will provide a small safeguard against rapid deflation, i.e. rapid tanking of values of mid-price items.