sunshadow21

And that might be part of the problem for people on P/R; it's a configuration that opens them up for maximum instant exposure while dealing almost no real cost or risk to the older cluster. Even if going through Chaos won't ever actually happen, discussing other placing options than the one assumed by most on the older cluster, and the pros and cons of each, might help soothe those concerned about instant changes to their servers with little to no impact on anybody else's. It also highlights the fact that people on the older cluster have as much to lose potentially as people on the newer cluster. Personally, I like the idea of putting the freedom servers in a square around Chaos. It makes travel possible without dealing with PVP, but also creates a shortcut for those willing to accept the risks that come with Chaos. It also provides natural spots to add additional servers in the future without elongating the line of servers even more. It would also help spread out the pain when connecting clusters because the newer cluster folks wouldn't feel like they are the only ones paying a price in the process. It may not make the most sense in the short term, but in the long term, it's a more stable configuration.

But without a measurable way of determining when it's soon enough, that's not a useful argument. Older cluster players and newer cluster players will work and stick together, or not, more or less the same regardless of when it's done. That is the thing I have with those saying "not yet." If they could also say ", but when x is achieved, we'll be as ready as we'll ever be," it would be a very different discussion. Without being able to define x, they have no arguments that can't be solved by connecting the clusters and working on the mutual problems as one cluster.

And to me, the biggest things is still armor and weapons. Being comfortable venturing outside walls or deeper into mines because you are more certain about successfully reaching a tower guard to help you with the thing that just started trying to eat you means that digging and mining and other jobs that require you to go to the source in potentially dangerous areas become viable and that is a big step toward people being willing to look for such jobs.

True, but most new players don't know that, or don't feel comfortable asking, and they are a lot more likely to ask about jobs in the first place if they know with absolute certainty that they have a way of getting the needed tools. The 5c a day is one way to strengthen their confidence while not becoming a crutch or something that older players will abuse to the point it can't help out the new players.

The older cluster still has undeeded and uninhabited lands that is still closer to most on the older cluster than traveling to a new server. Traders are probably not going to increase drastically overnight because those that really want them have already placed them via alts. If you think the economy is great on the older cluster, you need a good economy class; the latest changes with the tokens helped a bit, but the economy in this game overall is very, very weak even at it's healthiest. Blending the two existing economies will not change that, and might be the catalyst needed to spur the dev team to find other ways to help out younger crafters. The problem I have with your arguments isn't that they aren't valid, its that they aren't unique to the new cluster or the effects of a one time connection. They are ongoing challenges inherent to Wurm itself, regardless of server and cluster. Rather than seeing the negative side, it would help if people saw the positives that could come for all from these problems being highlighted. Adding a new connection or not will have very little impact in the long run on the player side (freeing up dev time and resources that can be utilized elsewhere is still pretty significant though), but the discussion it generates can help highlight where the devs need to focus a light on to improve the game for everyone.

No, but the 60 ql gives a boost in speed, and higher ql in general means less decay; both are good reasons why even a few coppers spent on the right stuff can open up the game surprisingly wide very quickly. The biggest thing to me though is that it creates a market for lower ql stuff in general than the 50 ql that older players usually start buying at. As a newer player, it was hard for me to find a merchant that actually had anything I could afford because selling things that cost mere irons or just a few copper just isn't worth it with the current merchant system. However, 25 to 30 copper, a solid week of using the token, is enough to get you started with decent armor/a decent weapon/one or two really good tools, all while being enough to the would be seller to justify setting up a merchant with ordinary 20 to 30 ql tools/weapons/armor to try to catch your business. Being able to stand a chance vs one or two more creatures, even if only long enough to run away and live is big to a new player. Being able to accept a job offer without having to make every tool yourself is also big because you don't waste time trying to gather the raw mats and imp the tool; you can just get straight to the money making job. And it accomplishes all of this without making a system that is overly valuable for older players to farm and drain resources away from the newer players it's intended to help. It's actually a pretty good balance from what I've seen; it's enough to be a genuine help without becoming a permanent expectation and/or alt farming tool for older players.

The problem with the whole economy argument is that most people on the older cluster start asking with neighbors and spread out from there. There are a few people that successfully advertise wide enough that people go straight to them regardless of distance, but not all that many in the grand scheme of things. It will have a more visible impact on the newer cluster to be certain, in that effective advertising becomes a must for crafters there to make sure that all of their neighbors know that they have options closer to home, but it does not automatically doom anyone.

That's why I skipped right over the vote itself and went straight the ideas behind the votes. If the reasons behind voting no had been more clearly compelling, I'm quite certain that the conversation at this point would be very, very different. As it is, it rapidly became an argument of why the devs should allow two clusters that to a brand new player today are essentially identical. That is the part that got my attention.

This isn't a vote for IF its a vote for WHEN. The servers are going to be connected SOMEDAY. So all of you who are saying that the players who chose to only have characters on the old cluster should also get to vote, are overlooking the fact that they only have knowledge of what it is like on the new cluster from forum posts and talking with people who are on the new cluster. I don't know if any of you have every played a game like telephone but its pretty much a similar concept. The lack of first hand experience skews their perception of what is and is not the standard on these servers. Except that so far, after 26 pages, no one has come up with any better reason than "I don't want to play in your sandbox." All attempts to pinpoint when those who keep saying "not yet" will be ready or what objective measure the devs can use to judge have fallen flat. I don't care what the vote count is, it's the lack of valid reasons to not do it sooner rather than later that struck me by the time I hit page 3 of this thread. I do think how it is done matters, and there is plenty of room for discussion there, but the answer of when seems to be when the devs decide it's more helpful than not to have a single cluster, as in terms of gameplay, the two clusters are as close to the same as one could reasonably hope for. There will always be someone saying "not yet" without being able to give any more reason or explanation than that, so if that's the best argument you can come up with, don't be surprised when the devs say it's time and you're not ready because you put all your hopes on that fluid deadline of "sometime in the future" rather than on objective goalposts and implemenations that would soften the impact. And yes, those who chose to have only characters on the older cluster are going to be effected by when, where, and how the clusters are joined together. A lot of people banking on it being attached to the non chaos side of the current cluster could be in for a big disappointment if they find that that P/R gets placed somewhere else, just as crafters on the old cluster will have to deal with the possible poaching of sales by aggresive crafters from P/R.

It's not intended to pay for a full month of premium, it's intended to give new players a boost to get going so that they can support paying premium ingame like any other player, by doing jobs for other players and working with other players, not relying on the magical token for money.

I don't see the Impalongs being too effected. I would be surprised to see a linkup before the beginning of the year, and that's assuming that the devs decide to do it soon, which is not a given, no matter what the vote count is. I don't see the dev team inflicting that kind of trauma on themselves on top of the holidays; they want to enjoy the holidays as much as anyone else, and that would be a good way to ensure that they don't. Even if it did come soon enough to potentially effect either or both of these, they would still both likely do just fine; many of the crafters would be thrilled with being handed basically a month long project, and the newer players will go to whichever one is easier to get to.

New islands as a buffer are a possiblity, but I would be concerned about spreading out the player base even more, as others have noted. Working with what already exists needs to be looked at first to contain the amount of potential future damage. This thread demonstrates what happens when you dive into uncharted territory to deal with current problems. I'm sure the temporary situation tag sounded like a strong limiter at the time and more than sufficient to cover future damage, but clearly it did not stick nearly as well as the dev team might have hoped.

Hey Rolf, i know you have enough on your plate with the dos attack but i honestly didnt know when i bought preium time that there was the remotest chance of being merged (im on release). i understand that your putting it to a vote which is a fair thing to do, but dissappointed that the other side get to vote as they dont inhabit our island and it being small would be over voted countless times as there are more of them then there are of us and it benfits them not us so should they really get to vote. not trying to irritate you as i understand theres plenty going on. if you could shed some light on the situation that would be grate. regards kimothy How are the other servers not affected? Travel routes, trade, and the community on the older cluster is going to be just as effected as those things on the new cluster will be effected. I agree that going off the raw vote alone is probably not a good idea, but it wouldn't be a good idea even if only people on the new cluster would be allowed to vote. The reasons behind the votes need to be the key consideration, and so far, no one on the new cluster has come up with anything better than "I don't want to play in your sandbox," a position that while valid, is not going to get them anywhere in the ultimate decision. By trying to focus on how such a merger could happen with minimal impact to all, it becomes possible to pinpoint more precise concerns and create a plan and timeline that addresses them effectively rather than relying on general arguments that will never go away no matter how long you wait.

I like that idea. Otherwise make it so that if you die on Chaos, but your homepoint is on another server, you can choose to resurrect at your homepoint. You've still lost skills, time, and whatever items/money you had on you, but you wouldn't be stuck on the pvp server. Another alternative would be to add a spawn point on a neutral plateau on Chaos where you can wait to get a ride off. Using Chaos to separate the PVE servers is still a good idea in my opinion, but people are right that there are some considerations to be dealt with. Hence the need to plan now, and act only after the major points have been ironed out. No plan is going to be without it's faults, but as long as they get the major stuff right, the rest should fall into place without too much loss or long term harm to the game.

i'm nobody's alt account, thank you very much, and I don't appreciate being seen as one, either. That kind of attitude is a big reason why a lot of people on P/R don't want to merge, and I can't blame them for it.