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Over the months we've requested changes and updates and had debates about the details of these updates and scope of them. We've discussed as players from mixed kingdoms the top changes we'd like to see and the details of each and are presenting them here. This is posted for wider feed back and for all input including devs. Keep the threads clear from KvK talk, trolling, unrelated changes not yet listed and derailing. I know a lot of ideas / changes are wanted but make a new thread and try to stick on topic of each point These changes will not affect freedoms mechanics. Hota Removal and Battle camp Rework Remove hota and instead spawn statues that can only be loaded on a cart or wagon. Add more Battle camps and increase slightly the spawn rate of chests inside these zones, where anybody can get an increased chance to lock picking. Increase Battle camps anti-build zones to 1 local, spawn zone inside of this. Chests will also spawn outside of these camps but with higher difficulty to lockpicking, statues will spawn outside these zones. Bring back the purpose of the other 90% of the map instead of a end game zone. Possibility of bashing towers to force a spawn, making it harder for deeds to camp on edge of local. Tower Chaining Bring back tower chaining and stop random deeds dropping in middle of territory you wouldn't otherwise be. To avoid a reset of the map, current deeds not linked to a chain of towers will have increased upkeep until chained. Any new deeds being dropped can not be unless towers are already chained.= Horse Rework Only allow traited regular horses to be used on chaos. Disable mounting of hell horses and unicorns. We think this will help with front line deeds being lived in more and less ghost-war deeds. Also stops people dashing away from a 80 tile local on a 40 kmph horse. The traited regular horse with gear will be capped to 30. Alongside this we'd like to see an increased skill gain of hunting mobs on Chaos, you're moving slower, in more danger so this will incentive hunting on chaos. *Just make it so HH and Unicorns can't be mounted, they will still spawn Reduced local and Dynamics After numerous WU servers tested this, it's proven to increase the likely hood of fights and less of enemy getting away. We'd like to have a trial period and adjust accordingly with 30 days intervals. Local range is affected by weather, day and night with an indicator letting you know your tile range. day time: 60 tiles night time: 40 tiles bad weather: 40 tiles This can be played with. Cave view distance should be 25 from inside viewing outside. Epic Armour changes One of the most requested additions, nobody wants to risk drake for some pvp or to learn pvp, nobody wants to take plate and run into somebody in drake, epic armor changes were well balanced and will do wonder for the Chaos community and take huge risk away. Less risk but on a balanced playing field = more pvp generated. Wearing plate and dying 6 tiles off a mine hop to somebody in drake is not balance, running rings around people in chain because they can't make plate, is not balance. One shotting people in leather/studded leather is not balance, make all armour types viable like you have on Epic

That's right, let's pretend King means a thing within TC for a second, the King is asking that you remove hota from Chaos, the King of the Kingdom that CONTROLS hota and gets back to back wins/solo wins/dominance of hota every round. Now when a King of the kingdom that controls hota is saying "it should be removed" (among all the other kingdoms that ask for this) it's probably reasonable to say that at this point it's well within the interest and balance of the game and not just Me trying to keep hota so i can continue to drain the silver from which it spawns us every 2 days. Make statues spawn in the wild and make it so they can only be loaded on a cart. Make chests spawn with MM and set this at a random lock-picking level for each chest. Remove the set location that PVP should be based and let us return to owning land for the sake of owning land. Setup battlecamps to increase spawn of statues/chests within an increased zone but increase no deed limits, the kingdom who owns the battle camp gets bonus to lock picking chests inside it + CR boost. Like the volcano announces when it errupts, you could give the kingdoms owner of the battle camp a clue as to when a new batch has spawned. They won't be limited to the battle camps, just a increased chance of spawn there. signed, the mighty King of TC that on this post, means a lot Mclovin

There's always going to be fringe cases or scenarios not thought of in testing, production of higher ql items is fine, it was the purpose of the imbues, but we did not consider those who would focus on creating tiny weight items that could then sbe smelted again to bypass ql cap mechanics and lump weight requirement mechanics. We were informed of this fairly quickly by a player who discovered it and wished to know whether it was intended, which we quickly agreed it was not. Unfortunately, not every player approaches a situation like this in the same manner "this is obviously broken" doesnt always mean "we should report it", and we'd like to stamp out those who seek to profit off such mechanics, and as such are in the process of reviewing our logs to identify if any individual did push this mechanic to extremes, that process and the outcome will be up to the GM team to determine whether vacations are necessary. We'll also be looking at a report reward for the player who did report it, it's not just a stick, there's a carrot too. We aren't psychic, and cannot always predict consequences, approaching absolutely every angle to ensure that in absolutely no way the mechanic could be abused would be impossible, things slip through. Defending the practices of abusing any possible scenario under the guise of "you guys should have thought of that!" fails to recognise your role in this, we all want a balanced game, at times we will rely on players to provide feedback on what feels broken, especially if it's something like this. This isn't a witch hunt, this is a crack down on poor attitudes and failure to report bugs or broken mechanics because they benefit the player

Ok with the latest update and discovered 'abuse' about lowering down lump amount in order to get increased ql, idea about refining lumpw cameout. I would like to put a proper suggestion for it. The way I imagined it that it would fit wurm would be to heat up lumps and use smelting pot on them to refined them, end result will be in +-10 ql of your metallurgy skill and end amount would be calculated based on difference between lump starting ql and end result... So if you're refining 60ql lump with 80 skill for example you loose 15 percent of mass, and if you are refining 20ql lump you loose 70 percent of amount (numbers are just examples from head, but I hope it's clear what's the goal). It can also allow coc to work on pots to work making metallurgy a little bit more to grind.It would have timer so woa could work too. Fails reduce weight and don't change ql, difficulty is higher that making current alloys so we get high end grinding way without breaking economy. What are your thoughts, how would you implement it, what cons, benefits you see in this suggestion?

Man... right after I made changes, too. What a shame.

+1 I'd have the fails work a bit differently though. Based on the pot's quality level, increase the difficulty (with cheaper pot QL) of the action and make fails reduce weight, but improve the lump slightly. But a "fail" will drain a (slightly?) higher amount of weight for the same quality improvement than a "success". I'm putting quotation marks here as I imagine a rolling system where "fail" and "success" are on two sides of a spectrum. This would allow metallurgists to gradually increase the quality of their stock on cost of quantity no matter what, but having a proper pot being much more time and material efficient. (Less mass drain and retries) That'd bring the potters to the table to have a reason to create high level tools (There's currently none, realistically speaking. Except for the tools durability.), but a cheap pot causing higher difficulty and more retry attempts also potentially lets the high level metallurgists grind harder on the expense of efficiency.

I'm not handing out punishments. Something was added that had unintended consequences, and rather than reporting those consequences to us we have players who decided to exploit it out of greed. What comes of the data I've extracted at the time of patch is not my call. In fact, perhaps I should've not even mentioned anything and simply allowed the GM team to handle it. Instead I gave a gentle hint that people may want to do the right thing while there's still time to do so. If you want to discuss a feature to do this properly, that belongs in the suggestions forum. In fact, there's already a good one there if I recall. What we have in these last few replies are people trying to use the need for a feature to dismiss exploiting an unintended consequence of an update. It doesn't matter what your justification is - it's still exploiting. That is what matters. For every person who exploited this situation because they felt entitled to do it, there's dozens of players who didn't exploit it. They aren't using the lack of a refinement system as justification for cheating. As for time, it took me 15 minutes to cobble together a report due to my knowledge of the database and logs we have. 15 well-spent minutes.

Im not sure but it feels like there would be a better market with more ppl being able to make money if it wasn't all just around drakes? Like a proper chain smith or leather worker could make some more cash by making good armour etc instead of a group running about killing a drake here and there. Drake and scale would still be really good if it is the same changes that was made on epic.

There’s some good ideas here and I wanted to pitch in my own opinion and thoughts on the feasibility of each one. These are just my opinion and I’m not making promises or setting deadlines. HotA Removal & Battle Camps This is probably the most technically challenging one. HotA isn’t something easily removed and replaced. This also shifts the dynamic of the PvP server dramatically. That’s not to say that it’s impossible or couldn’t be done, just making sure it’s understood that this would definitely be the most difficult of the suggestions to implement. That said, I do believe there needs to be some reason to roam. The battle camps are a good solution, but bring a concern where it’s likely a single, powerful kingdom would end up taking control over them and farm it just like the current implementation of HotA. Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the battle camps work, but that’s the first thing that comes to mind when the objective is in a static location. Tower Chaining Being able to place a tower wherever you want does seem rather unintuitive. The changes proposed make sense to me, but I also don’t have the background as to why the tower chaining system from a long time ago was removed. If someone could explain why that happened, I’d be far more onboard with this. Horse Rework Hell horses and Unicorns are likely to pose an issue to balance as long as they exist. Whether it’s because they’re stronger in combat, faster, or whatever, it’s a balance nightmare without standardizing them in some way. Disabling the ability to ride hell horses and unicorns seems like the least intrusive method to get mounted speeds back in line. Reduced Local I don’t even need logic for this one, WU servers have tested this as thoroughly as humanly possible and the result of reduced local is always the same: Better PvP. The idea for a dynamic range based on weather conditions and time of day makes it even more immersive. This also opens up opportunities for night assaults or using fog to your advantage. Really good stuff. Epic Armour Changes This one is touchy because of how it affects the Freedom market. Most of the demand for drake and scale comes from the PvP servers. Buffing the other armours too much will render drake and scale obsolete. If not the epic armour changes, I think there’s definitely some room for increasing the movement speed from non-dragon armour, as well as increasing the DR for leather/studded to stay viable.

I don't think this should go to Epic to be "Tested" chaos is perfectly fine to test it on, since it will be based here in the long run anyway and we're mostly already here with each kingdom setup. With how we suggested the changes come in with towers for example, it will be minimal disruption and if it has to be pulled out, nobody would have lost anything since nobody is pushing currently. On elevation we could literally chain towers around each other because of how flat it is, it won't represent a great test. I'd opt for challenge as we all start fresh and get a new players perspective as well.

So just to throw it into bullet form: Remove hota Make hota statues spawn randomly acrosx the server at a certain rate Spawn locked treasure chests across server at a certain rate Make hota statues only loadable by cart/wagon the battlecamps thing sounds a little more like another hota situation where everyone will camp around it

holy ocd

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/07/09/mysterious-giant-sarcophagus-discovered-in-egypt.html A mysterious ancient black granite sarcophagus has been discovered in Egypt. The tomb, which dates back to the Ptolemaic period between 305 B.C. and 30 B.C., was uncovered in the city of Alexandria. In a Facebook post, Dr. Mostafa Waziri, general secretary of Egypt’s Supreme Council of Antiquities, announced that the 6-foot high sarcophagus, which is 8.7-feet long and 5.4-feet wide, is the largest ever found in Alexandria. The sarcophagus was found buried 16.4 feet below the surface. A layer of mortar between the lid and the body of the sarcophagus indicates that it has not been opened since it was closed more than 2,000 years ago. NOOOO MAN

These are all valid points. You're right, the game should be about the fun stuff, not the chores. There's enough grind in the game as it is.

Yea let's take away volunteer GM's ability to enjoy the game, they aren't players themselves and got to where they are because they have a great understanding and are the best to help you in any situation or anything, you sure are a dribbling pasta strainer

if we're "balancing" pvp based on freedom market we probably won't ever get anywhere. Theres no possible way for you to make adjustments to plate, chain and leathers that cost 2silver for a set ( and can also be made on demand) that make them competitive as something you want to have at a 90 euro value i just don't see it working

The Bow is armed (UDA Bay)

Just dont want to risk 120 euros (drakeset + mm weapons + mm helm) every time i go outside.

Not sure how I feel about battlecamp stuff, but I like removing hota and randomizing hota statue spawns. However, I dislike making statues loadable only as it makes it less available to those without. People with 50000 hota statues wont want them so they aren't going to fight over them, but they might want to fight over moon metal. If joenostatues has no statues and finds one, hes gonna take the metal home and drop it before going back out with a cart, assuming he knows where to even go. Just let them grab the 150kg anchor and ride slow as hell

+1 everyone who actively plays on Chaos agrees to these. They are good for the game.

After much discussion from representatives across every kingdom with relatively easy agreements in every area this thread mentions, I am for these changes. Please dev’s, listen to your community and consider these suggestions as a whole as we see them as linked points. Many of us are willing to agree to aspects that don’t benefit us so that new players or new to pvp players can more easily get involved. Looking forward to dev’s responses ?

Server Tweaks [v1.2] New Options: Minimum and Maximum moon metal vein limitations - When setting these values, any vein that exists with above the maximum will re-roll to between these two values on the first mining action. New Option: GM Enchant Any Item - This will allow your GM's to cast spells on items that normally would not even display the options. It will not allow them to break restrictions such as negating enchants and similar. Download (GitHub)

Idea to play with. Make HOTA like capture the flag. HOTA spawns random somewhere on the map like Rift. You have to wait a few minutes at a pillar to capture it. Then you have to travel with the pillar (or token instead) to another part of the map to deliver the pillar which takes another few minutes at the goal line to be final. This would get more people involved and having to do an escort where possible ambush and strategic fights can happen. Hard to control something if you have to travel long distance with it. Hard to solo a HOTA if have to bring a heavy object across the map. - Who ever holds the token would glow so you know who is holding it. - Make HOTA location only appear right when it starts. - Put two lights in the sky. One for beginning and one for end. - Reduce locate soul range. - Not sure if I'd want the token to be only loadable and have to use a cart or can just pick it up and pass it. - Cannot stealth within the actual beginning or end areas (within a tile range) so can't just wait and stealth at the end. - Token would just drop on the ground when you die for someone else to grab. - HOTA would be a small time limit as soon as pillar/token is picked up so it can't last forever. - Maybe have the person holding the token have a time limit and would have to get to end really quick or has to pass off to someone else. -- Or make it a no drop and still have a short time limit where you need your alliance to help you. Or make it like a time bomb. lol (hot potato)

Honestly, everyone who knows what's good for PVP would agree to these suggestions.

plus fuggin 1, promote growth in more than one 400x400 area of the map

Update your esp mod

OK. This is about as nit-picky as anyone could possibly be, but there is an annoying eye distraction on the belt buckle that would be nice to have adjusted. First, the number is a little too far up, and needs to be centered better. Second, the up arrow is smaller than the down arrow, and could easily be made the same size. Third, the up arrow is on the inside of the horizontal stitches, while the down arrow is on the outside of the horizontal stitches. They should be both the same, that is, either both on the outside or both on the inside of the horizontal stitches. Just a little aesthetic fix.

@RetrogradeWithout my knowledge, the person who reported it used the shared account i own to reproduce the bug. Congrats to him to have reported it, but i just hope he didn't open a ticket with his own account and mine will be banned because used to reproduce the exploiting. I just want to make things clear, (I've already removed access to him as soon as people informed me)

It also doesnt actually bring any change, a game in java is the same as a game in unity, being java doesnt make it anything beyond a few minor quirks in java, being in unity doesnt make it anything other than a unity game. They don't instantly make them look or perform better or worse either way.

It still does not justify lack of ability on the team side to predict consequences of changes. Nothing worse than a programmer whining your are not using my code as I intended to be used. Seriously you need to work on that. It's annoying and drives players away. Look at the mess with personal goals? How hard was to predict that everyone was gonna start rolling alts to win as much time as they can and put 3 month restrictions from begging, how hard was to notice that mining 99ql gem as silver goal is insane? Whar to report here, you have mechanic to increase creation ql, you have mechanic to smelt things, how the hell someone know what you itended with it?You can't organize witch hunts to cover bad design. People don't want to pay to live under inquisition, and don't wanna see their time wasted. So less investigating and more effort put into game design...

I'd go far as to say no. There's been quite a few discussions of this in the past, even so much as to ponder if a release on Android or IOS was an option. It's not as simple as releasing the game on another engine, they are not plugins or add-ons that you can simply recompile your code and be ready to deploy. It would take years to do and, for that matter, would be time better spent just making Wurm 2.0 or another game completely. I will say, for a long time people thought java outdated, junk, and that Wurm was an example of how bad java is. And during those years, wurm was a beast of a lag machine, it was terrible performance wise and to turn on shadows without a 2000usd PC was death. But then all of a sudden they began hiring devs and volunteer coders and what you have today (which is very aggressively being optimized and getting new features) is a pretty well oiled game that with every update is working better and better on average PC's. I think it's sufficed to say, wurm will be staying on Java and it's getting slicker as every update polishes it's many awesome features further then before.

[21:54:16] You have just received the title 'I am so Vein'! i think topic can be probably closed

Items being rare is not an excuse for exploiting game bugs in order to get more of it. Some things are supposed to be rarer than others. If you want to argue that high quality moonmetal should be more common, that's valid (although I'd disagree). However, that is absolutely not an excuse to use exploits to get them. Also, people exploiting a mechanic to get more of something than they should is not, in itself, a sign that there is a problem with game balance. People have exploited mechanics, and otherwise cheated, for far, far less return than this. If people have cheated to get more iron and bricks, then the presence of cheating is insufficient to indicate that something is too uncommon to achieve by normal means. Also, by definition, every exploit "uses existing game mechanics". The definition of an exploit is using those game mechanics in a way that was not intended to be accomplished/possible, or that circumvents or undermines how gameplay is intended to work. The only sort of exploit that doesn't use existing game mechanics would be the kind that involves actively hacking the game client or server in order to change those mechanics, which is a whole other ball game.

Shhh... get out of our dev chat.

I realize I wasn't entirely clear by this. The reason it was yanked is that people assumed it was intentional for you to be able to increase the quality of moon metals via creation QL boosts and smelting it back down. I've got a list of suspected people and amounts. I'm not sure what Enki will be doing, but if it were me - I'd probably fess up in a ticket and set the offending amounts aside.

Could someone take a few minutes out of their very busy Dev schedule and actually make the in game map "K" look like the letter k and not another h. This has been int he game forever and people still make the mistake of saying they are at h when they mean k on the map because there is no difference in the appearance to most people. Please and thanks in advance!

Guess I was right about that subject.

The impression I've gotten lately from developer comments is that you all are viewing the general playerbase as the enemy. I can't see that as a good impression to foster. (I'm hoping it's not an accurate impression, but if it is, that's an even more serious problem.)

Required at the end: *Some in the pvp community. Until a concrete plan is available to epic I want no armor change moves anywhere else. A trial period on the local idea is required like you said, would be interesting. I do not know how to feel about a horse rework, try it though, because Hell Horses suck. Tower chaining yes Hota removal maybe, I think there is good merit to this, but it should be tested on a full challenge server, in fact all of this should be on challenge. Or even just put it on Epic as it is already pretty experimental.

..to 23 hours. This gives you a way to slightly adjust your reset time without really changing the delay. With 24 hour delay it is almost guaranteed that you will end up missing half a day of cooldown as you'll eventually push the cooldown off your play-time.

Weird, epic has hota, doesn't work there either.

Yea def a +1 to this

heh thats what i would call super fast service - had it within 5 minutes 10/10

Sounds confusing, therefore wogical. Still, -1 for me.

If someone is trying to charge you 1 silver for a blank 80 ql shovel, you need to find a new blacksmith.

Current status of the TOC workforce. there will be no more "Thirsty Thursdays".

I would be happy if it caught things that weren't even mobs. Set the trap and check it each day to see if it is "full" and then retrieve the trap like harvesting a crop. You get an option maybe to butcher right there and reset trap.

This has really never been indicated in anything I've ever seen in Wurm - as a player and as a developer. Wurm has always been more of a "choose your own adventure" game, but in a multiplayer sandbox environment. The choices made are supposed to be a permanent thing, leaving you a unique character with your own experiences. That's why priesthood isn't designed for everyone to just become a priest. It's supposed to change the way you play the game. Meditation was designed to give you some unique insight into the path you followed. So in the same regard, no. The intention isn't for you to get every single "end tier" item. You can, through rigorous effort, but that's part of your story now. Ever wonder why you only get one hand mirror? Same reason. It's unfortunate some folks found a way to abuse the system. I may push to try and identify those folks, but at the end of the day if they've already used or sold a tome it will be hard to do anything without impacting a larger number of players. The issue has been sorted, at least to a certain degree. And the original idea was to disallow all players created after the announcement of retiring the system from winning the game. So that's where it could have gone, and honestly I'd still support if this continues to be a complaint. Instead, we opted for a change that doesn't punish legitimate new players while also making it more annoying to farm.

For a legitimate player 3 months is an incredibly short time to achieve goals. For an alt rolled specifically for easy to finish goals with little to no effort, it's a hurdle. The system is supposed to be there for existing players to gain the rewards before the system is removed, not for players to generate countless alts to win tomes, so we feel this step at least discourages the worst abuses of the system while still being not an issue for other players.

Zaj thanks a lot for helped Mittyke. She did it! "You have received 100 karma for 'Climb up a really really high mountain'." <Mittyke> [01:12:56] This is within the village of Dragon's Fang. The sunrise was wonderful.