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A little bit about me: I have been playing Wurm on home/freedom servers since 2008, and very recently moved to Chaos. I want to state my opinions here because I can, and my opinion is that I'm fed up with how a lot of players are treating the Devs and reacting to updates. When I started playing there was no real tutorial to speak of, and a lot of things were harder. Longer mining timers, item creation destroying materials on creation fail, and numerous other examples. over the years the game has gotten easier and easier to the point where people treat it as a failure of the development team if they encounter something such as death on a non pvp server. How entitled do people feel these days?!? It baffles me, it really does. Whatever the Devs have added or updated YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO ADAPT. Some things are made easier, some harder. And so far I have seen nothing that could not be solved by either more time, more effort or more co-operation, or even better a combination of the three. It really grinds my gears to see people moaning about not being allowed to modify and close public highways and tunnels used by vast numbers of people because they decided to drop a deed on it. You CHOSE to deed it knowing the rules, and there is plenty of other land to choose from. Another example is the latest update with predators attacking prey animals. Barring a few exceptions (trolls) I like it, it's natural behavior for predators. If you keep getting your cart/wagon team killed, you can get more FS to try to protect them better, or use teamwork to clear the road ahead of the cart. Heck, maybe drag a small cart yourself. In case of danger you can ditch it and run, then kite away the mob. Wurm does not have a creative mode like Minecraft and nor should it, even on PvE servers there should be danger lurking albeit a lot less than PvP and so far that remains true, I'm willing to make a noob account on any PvE server and run it from one end to the other without dying to prove it. Maybe my opinion is jaded because I started the game when it was much harder as a noob, alone, and I pulled through it, maybe people have gotten far too soft when it comes to gaming these days and can't accept that death and item loss are and should be real possibilities. Maybe people need to realize that like life, not all games are fair. Nobody is forcing you to spend real money on items, or even in-game money. If you can't spend the time and effort to play the game the way you would like to, maybe the game is not for you, there are plenty of choices these days. Play something else for a while and come back in 6 months, maybe it will have changed more to your liking. In closing: I still support Rolf, and Wurm will almost certainly be a staple of my gaming library, for better or worse Wurm has a lasting appeal for me whatever the changes.

I recently purchased a deed from someone and in going about all the work of getting it setup I stupidly neglected to double check the settings. The setting to allow people to pick up items left on the ground was set to on. So yes dumb mistake but doesn't excuse the person who stole my 2k dirt and other valuables, they are still a thief. Anyone who would steal from their new neighbor is,imo, a thief of the lowest order. Now I know I made a mistake but I also know how this game works. This thread will be bombarded by people telling me to stop whining it was my fault and the thief was just doing what the game wants him to do. But let me use this real life example, Bernie Madoff, a man who did nothing but take money others freely gave him. According to the trolls logic Bernie should be out spending his money and living in luxury and the people he stole from should have a capital S branded on their forehead for stupid. But fortunately we still live in a society that considers this kind of person as a special level of scum, the kind who steals your stuff while smiling to your face. Frankly im starting to get real sick of the people in this game. Its not Rolf and the devs putting in stupid game mechanics with out announcing them that will kill this game but the kinds of people who are friendly to your face while looking for every way to steal your stuff And than all the others who will condone this action by calling me stupid. As the few people who I can still call friends in this game will tell you though im to stubborn to let others run me out of the game. So let the trolling began, I look forward to the usually list of suspects coming here and posting how much a whiner I am and how I should shut up and lock all my stuff behind tall walls and trust no one, oh except for them of course they would like to come by and look at my deed and smile to me as they reach aroun.....

As a new player (my first premium month expires this week) I can't intelligently comment on whether the predatory animal change is going to seriously unbalance anything. I grind fight skill by bouncing stuff off of templars and tower guards because every creature out there seems to be able to eat me even in my studded leather. Consequences of low fight skill, blah blah blah. Some people seem to love it, others hate it... and this isn't a new argument, every time someone changes a game there are those who are for and against. What I will comment on though is that so far I have seen nothing encouraging about the development processes Wurm operates under. I don't expect that every organization in the world follows the ITIL or other operations framework for how they do their changes, but the way updates seem to just get thrown in on random days at whatever time the development team thinks they're ready is unprofessional at best, amateur hack at worst. I could not personally write the code to make a Wurm clone, there's obviously some intelligence behind how it was written and implemented, but I would very strongly suggest that the team grab a change manager who has some experience in service delivery and let them teach the shop how to go about informing users, scheduling changes, and updating and maintaining documentation. Too much management sucks, but there needs to be some serious change control put in to place there. At the very least, just pick a day of the week and stick with it. A simple known quantity like "Servers will always be brought down for maintenance and any updates on Tuesdays at 12:00:00 GMT." would go a massively long way. If you're going to stick with the idea that telling people what changes are going in ahead of time is horrible and should never be done, at least people would know to make sure their stuff is as secure as it can be when they log out Monday night.... but really, if changes are going in Tuesday, there's no good reason why end-users can't be notified at least Monday. Anyway, some great concepts in the game. It's a little rough around the edges by today's UI standards, but for a small team, it's very cool. Just get some professionalism to go with the good ideas and coding skills.

Instead of focusing on adding new behaviour to animals, which obviously didn't turn out to well. How about focusing on fixing behaviour like grazing animals just eating tiles to dirt and then just stand there starving when there's tiles next to the animal with grass/farm on? Someone suggested making AI check nearby tiles for highest grass and go there to feed, this would solve so many issues with a few horses packing a huge area!

Recently there was an update that involves our bison now being killed, I've been leaving my bison on nearby grass when I work since I started playing. This morning I woke-up to find my 5spd bison which cost 4s each being attacked, one was already dead. Is it really so hard to warn us about updates like this, that just costed me 4s, honestly I just miss my favorite bison now...

Some nerd humor there. >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj6ryHCEG7s

I agree but pls just fix valrei

How am I to be offline and prevent bad things from happening to my deed and animals, you seem to have a ###### answer for everthing, please enlighten me.

I am thinking that with the many failed solutions to 'creatures being in places un-visited by players or stuck on clfifs, and such' why not having animal migration? Example: Spiders will travel from west to east. Either after a season or if they reach the area, they will travel east to west. By them being mobile it means that they won't forever stuck on some slopes or mountains. If the game mechanics allow it, can even have elaborate migration patterns or even spawning patterns... So players know where to seek certain animals on certain time . Just make sure they still possible to spawn elsewhere tho..

I'm all for wurm being exciting and fun, the fact that hitched animals now being lunch for mobs being an unnoted "ninja nerf" is the most concerning aspect of this to me. I don't mind devs experimenting on the test server (read not indi). And why do carnivores not attack each other when we have 10x more spiders then anything else? To say "we're implementing realism" in a game where I'm chasing pink unicorns with enchanted weapons is laughable at best.

Sorry you had this happen to you Lord Castile....i feel for you i realy do. As Lord Whykillme has said - after a deed has been traded all settings should change to default to protect the new owner..... thats the way i see it. And as for "Does this thread has any point at all?" YES it does ......maybe just maybe a GM may see this and change a little bit of code to stop this happening to others. It also lets me see how many players rag on people down on there luck ....shows there names....so i can note them down and have NO dealings with them. And it also shows names of players that are kind and feel others pain.....the sort of players i would be proud to deal with. Good luck from now on Lord Castle .....Don't let the B*stards grind you down m8

Did you miss the part where horses were attacked by sharks? And where lots of people have lost whole herds? It's nice to tl; dr everything and call us all crybabies but you are wrong.

I think this might be you when you see me stuck... Thank you for always getting me out of places.

I will concede to your statements if and only if the next time they decide to ninja drop this kind of stuff, they give more than 6 minutes warning to a reboot in order to ADAPT to a change which also requires it to not be a 30 minute warning ninja drop as in give some info beforehand. It's a bit late to adapt when you log in to dead animals because you were 12 minutes from home and your cart and bison logged back in before you did. Call it childish bitching if you want, but that was not necessary. Tell this guy it was a great update. Updates are one matter. This ninja bomb crap is another.

At this point, my prem on two chars runs out in less that 2 weeks. My plans were to reprem for a year, just like I did last year. I will not however being repreming. Instead, once it runs out I think I will just lol a while and check out some other games. Meanwhile I can log in free on wurm n still chat with my friends, so I guess wurm will be like a free chat module for me . I am not going to rule out repreming forever, but I do know two things about it now: 1. I will never use rl monies for it again, either I have the game silver to do it or I don't 2. I will never reprem for more than 1 month at a time reason for #2: I don't want to be standing there when that final blow comes that everyone is fed up and the servers go down. For whatever reason, it seems that is what the devs are actually working toward, killing the servers slowly but surely. I may be standing in wurm the day that happens but I will be standing there with my credit card bill not showing payments to wurm!

The issue/uniqueness of Wurm is the homogenized dynamic world. There are not areas designed for players to go from 0-5 FS, 5-10 FS, 10-20 FS... etc. To be honest, it is the reason (and I don't mean this negatively) that Wurm will never see Player Population near that of more main stream MMOs. Believe it or not... Most gamers don't like dying. They don't like corpse runs... And they definitely don't like corps runs where there is absolutely no indication of where they were/are on the map. Its a hard game. Now... that being said... Of the few who DO enjoy the challenge of Wurm... Even less enjoy the ever changing landscape of rules/enforcements/ninja updates... They enjoy hard mode on games, but they don't enjoy the chaotic environment of ever this ever changing game (devs...). It is much easier to adapt to the changes, when you already know the game, have survived your first week, and finished your first wooden hammer after making 20 unfinished hammers that need a hammer to finish... Its just not a good approach to keeping and encouraging more players to join.

When reading the Freedom chat it seems that Independence has had a crimewave lately of people stealing everything not bolted down. People who've forgotten to lock a gate overnight have had their forges carted away and so on and so on. Sure, they shouldn't have left their gates open but this points to a much deeper issue imo. Many of the thefts weren't a "spur of the moment" thing where they thought that the place was abandoned, they used a cart/wagon so it was probably premeditated - Meaning that people stake out their neighbour's place. There's probably not a whole lot of people that play the game this way, but enough to make it unfriendly (especially for newbies).

I offered him 1k dirt and put it in a bsb for him among other things that went missing. Replacing it is not hard nor the issue. The issue is someone took advantage of old permissions on a traded deed that he didn't even know where set. They should revert to default on trade. Maybe it is an oversight and a Dev seeing the post will have it looked at as maybe being an unintended thing. It serves more than to whine. His neighbors know who they are. His neighbors know who their neighbors are. It won't take them much to single out the person who took it. The taker was warned and the other neighbors were warned without putting names up here. Others were warned to check any deed they purchase for settings they don't want. Devs were warned of a possible unintended setting. It served a very large purpose. EDIT: And no, you aren't a troll for asking. :-P

Here's the reason in my own personal opinion the current change where non-aggressive animals (bison, deer, whatever others) get attacked by predators isn't realistic. In RL nature, the herd animals vastly outnumber their predators in their native environment. So a lone mountain lion (puma) picking off a deer doesn't jeopardize the existence of the herd. It's pretty obvious that in Wurm Online's spawning, no such low carnivore:herbivore ratio exists. The result will be that finding a non-aggressive animal such as a deer or bison will be incredibly rare, generally only when they first spawn or a short time afterwards, whereas aggressives will be even more commonplace than before in terms of what you're likely to encounter. For newer characters that don't have herds of domestic animals already on a large deeded farm/ranch, this is a bad thing.

I pretty much agree. It's not possible to make a game that everyone likes. At inception some people will like the design and some folks won't, the same is true during the life cycle of the game. Some folks won't like changes some will. Over time people will leave due to changes, other people may well join because of them. Personally I'd always wanted a fairly lethal PvE aspect to the game under a much more open PvP feature and ruleset (ie no kingdoms, no title bonuses, no contrived incentives for PvP like battle zones). The current PvP situation simply doesn't appeal to me so I'm slumming on Indy and enjoy any change that makes things harder. I get that others might not. That said Rolf an Company need to do a better job of patch management. Rolf seems to suffer from an overly developed sense that people are going to ###### no matter what so he might as well stick things in and see what happens. Unfortunately that pisses off two sets of people, those who don't like the change and those that don't like surprises. Add to that the fact that these are untested changes and you piss off everyone with the buggy implementation. I'd really prefer that Rolf simply say, "This is my game, I'm going to make change X to achieve goal Y please test it but goal Y is not open for debate". Yeah some folks will ###### about goal Y but at least the others can point out flaws in the implementation so that change X actually hits goal Y. Since Rolf doesn't actually play he frequently misinterprets how changes actually play out. So I'll typically refrain from the debates about this change sucks or this change rocks. I will typically hop in with both feet on any debate about patch and feature release management.

Frustration, I believe, is the point. I'm sorry this happened to you as well. I find the attitude here on the forums to suck as well. Just remember that most of the posters who tell you that "asked for it" are basement dwellers who would be the first to cry about it, if someone took their things. Cold comfort, I know.

im not against this change if it would include some "predator and prey" typical behaviours aswell! so it gets some kind of fairness to it... just a few examples: -prey has heightened senses to "see" the threat and can flee before anything happens, only the fastest predators hunting on easy terrain like slopes less than 20 would get their prey -there needs to be an advantage for prey aswell, like beeing able to hide in tall grass -sneak for predators -reasons for animals to go near dangerous places to come out of hiding from time to time, like needing to visit water ponds and so on -no animal spawns on DEED !!! so that fences are actually protecting animals! -animal groups, that in nature would group up aswell, like wolf packs or horse tribes, that gives them an advantage of some sort -naturally born animals (no spawning, but faster giving birth when not domesticated) -predators only need one animal to not be starving anymore AND predators CAN hunt each other aswell -trolls and goblins evolve to some higher beeings (because they have tools and clothes) and are able to live for a while from berries and mushrooms -hitched animals that notice a threat make event messages or even sounds to warn the owner [15:01] Wildrose looks around nervously. she seems to be scared of something. its just some examples of things that could be done or should be done before implementing just "half" of a predator/prey system....

Well, the day is done, so the story of April the Foal comes to a close. Despite my most sincere assurances and most unquestionable proof, some of you disbelievers decided to remain skeptical. It's your right, of course. After all, nobody has ever seen a rare horse, so why would one show up now? Let me remind you, then, that no one has seen a yeti either and yet we all know they exist! But fair is fair. Thanks for participating in this crazy story One thing was true, though. I honestly never touched up that screenshot. In fact, I didn't even take it. The screenshot was provided by none other than our own Wox. Yes, Wurm's chief artist was with me on this and was kind enough to have April the Foal come to life. As every artist, he put little personal touches on the screenshot and some of you have already seen the very visible rune on the horse's shoulder. That was added. One of you noticed Wox's name on the fence. In addition to those, there is also a tiny happy face on the horse and a watermark of a troll's face in the sky. And as such, our story comes to a close. However! While Wox added the above personal touches to the screenshot, this IS a real screenshot. It was taken by him on the test server and what you see in the picture - an image of two horses, one rare and one normal - was actually there when he took it. That part was not photoshoped. Neither was the rare glow on the foal. So, what does this mean? Well, I think it raises a very interesting possibility. Whether I actually had a rare foal or not, it shows that a rare foal IS possible. Perhaps it's just a visual trick. Perhaps it's waiting to be added to the game. Perhaps it's already in Wurm, but no one has managed to produce one yet. But perhaps one day, when you least expect it, you will open the gate to your horse pen after breeding some animals and there, waiting for you in its glimmering splendor will be your very own, REAL April the Foal... Peace.

April fools! Thanks for playing and see you next year !

Well spoken Rev, I don't agree with it all, but very well spoken, a pleasure to see someone take their time and articulate I'm not sure folks are mayhaps moaning and groaning over dying but how the game is being nerfed and how the devs are treating the game, Rolf noted how wurm is his "hobby" among other things, Moon metal anyone? Edit: I just had a second thought, I fully support the less whining on the forums. It seems to be a given on the epic/chaos forums, but not on the other forums. Sadly whining has become the go to means for getting the changes a person views as important pushed through, and time and again confirmed on how to nerf/buff your team in wurm. I don't think that perception will be changing any time soon

Did some reading Solution: keep the new feature but remove horses and bison from "prey" category. This or prevent the feature ondeed or if the "prey" is hitched. Don't think I've had any of these problems personally though, lol. Lots of walls between the wild and my horses.

I can't wait for some bear or spider up in the mountains grinding away on non-agro mobs for years slowly gaining fs then completely destroying the first hunter who finds it.

Agreed this is total bs . Bison are kinda hard to find on the steppe as is just for newbs . Deer are a complete pain because the few that you see are on cliffs and they do not swim. So making the 2 harder to find animals into dog food specifically when one is perfect for healing covers and the other is the only thing that make wagons safe to actually use is stupid. This needs to stop with the ninja crap and this update needs reversing.

Launched finally yesterday on steam.

I've said it before, that this game's main problem is it sabotages itself. It changes things that don't need changed, just for the sake of 'change', and often doesn't fix the glaringly obvious things everyone wants fixed. That's not a recipe for continued success, unfortunately. And where the hell are our bridges?

I agree, Garit. People like to say "It's just a game." but I'd much prefer not to spend time with people whose idea of fun is basically Mean Girls. This game is about as survival-y as Survivor, the TV show. The trolls are disheartening but the in game trolls are the ones that chase people off.

well I know I'm going to make enemies here but I'm going to say it. I like the new AI animals. I'm a newer player (2months) and I have never killed a bison, deer or horse on my own. I started on wild cats, then mountain loins, and I can kill some weaker wolves. I don't wear gear most of the time (didn't like the speed drop) and fight with two axes, my fs is now 28, yet I haven't even tried to really level that hard. sorry but the "you're being mean to noobs" claim is void imo. As for new players not getting animals, I can't tell you how many people have offered me a free horse, or brought over a pig or chicken. I have traveled across the server and caught some on my own and I even hunted some down/bought some for others. As long as there is a good community on the server new players will be ok. Yes things will be hard, yes I will sob like a baby when I loose my best animal, but then I will pick myself up and try again.

Bought some meat and bricks from Rauros, good seller, backs up what he says he will do! Meat tasted kinda funny, but figured it was because it was cooked by dwarfs. The Gnomes Support this Dwarf!

My Neighbour lost yesterday 20 Cows to a Lava Spider - which spawned in his fenced area. So clearly no April joke

It sounds like good tweaks, but sadly I don't think it is enough to make we want to play again. All of these things are consequences that imo should have been thought of BEFORE implementing such a change. And that is what makes me doubt this game - that there is a big thinking step that seems to be missing in your development process, and correcting the "mistakes" after the fact isn't enough - ideally people learn from their mistakes, but instead it is obvious that we should expect more of them. How you manage to overlook consequences that it took actual players all of 5 minutes to point out - without logging into the game, and without actually seeing it happen, but just from they way you worded this "predator vs. prey change" is .... scary. I have never before payed to play on a test server, and umm... I see why that isn't generally a good business model.

Hello everyone, I have read your feedback and brought it up with team. We are making further adjustments to the ai. Mainly the supposed troll overdrive on bashing in on deeded houses, enclosures and agro on hitched animals. We have yet to confirm the cases but we are currently looking at the mechanics to see what should be tweaked. The aim is to create a more living environment where you will find more natural interaction between mobs. Which I hardly believe that anyone wont find exiting. Well, there is always someone This is supposed to be a Wild and exiting game, but we are not out to make it unnecessarily punishing on you deeded territory. Just enough to keep you on your toes and make for an exiting challenge.

I don't particularly liiikke the predator/prey change.. mostly because it gives me fewer things to kill for hides.. but by no means is this a game breaking change. And the whining over it has been ridiculous.. much like many other changes. I totally agree with Rev that the childish behavior of the Wurm Community has become something overwhelming. If you have a problem with something, I feel its a gereat thing to express that, if done properly. Whining like a brat and demanding things be changed.. is not it by any means. As my mother used to say to me when I was three and throwing temper tantrums.. "Use your big girl words and tell me what you really want"

Probably one of the best tv shows ever, if you ask me

This wasn't an April Fools joke. An April Fools joke would have been something cosmetic, like changing everyone over to chickens for the day. This was just another horrible implementation not thought out.

I understand how this update pisses off a lot of people, on the forums at least. The annoyed people are always more vocal. My personal opinion is that the freedom servers are too easy, there is NO DANGER at all, no incentive to pay attention to anything, and it's the reason I keep quitting wurm for months on end. I LIKE this update, the smart players will adapt I'm sure of it. A sandbox game isn't just your sandbox, it's everyone's and I know other players who also welcome this update.

i may be able to come for a bit, can do carp, fine carp, bsing, and lwing. plus can mine or cut trees if needed. whatever is needed. also of course spars for whoever wants to ;D

I figure I should chip in. This is me without clothes; click show on your own risk

Ok ok, I will pop on down for the weekend, I need less than a point to 90 Leather Working anyways I can also bring down 70 Cloth Tailoring. EDIT: Strike that I hit 90 Leather Working over the weekend; doesn't mean I won't attend of course!

it's Player Versus Enviroment, this change rocks in my opinion. I don't see wolves and etc mingling with deer irl. Only change I might make is that trolls don't bash through walls to get to mobs, but on the other hand, that's pretty frikken cool.

This is really a terrible update. Please revert! One of our deeds got overrun by trolls. A horses got eaten by a mob while it was grazing on deed, in a secured pen, same with ALL cows and ALL calves. The trolls bashed their way in, and we are not talking about deed border walls now, the animal pen walls were several tiles into the deed, as recommended. They even went through locked house doors so there was no safe place on the whole deed anymore to go. When I arrived from the other deed a while later, there were like 20 spiders around the deed that was overrun and the poor templar was killed every few seconds. This is really not playable anymore. If we pay so much for upkeep and premium and even a templar, we should be safe at least on deed... And it should be possible to go on a 2 weeks vacation and not lose everything if all is paid for and locked. Please, dearl Rolf, consider this: people don't really enjoy when their stuff is taken from them or destroyed even though they took every possible precaution. That is what makes people quit. PS: Even that last update that should have prevented mobs to move into lower terrain and get stuck there did the exact opposite. Now they are all piling up in the most stupid places. Why even change things that worked so well for a long time? I am usually the voice of reason and try to figure out how to get along with changes, but i see no chance anymore with this one. People, animals , houses and walls etc on deed should just be safe on the non pvp servers.

My opinion is that a developer would be wise to remember who pays their salary and act accordingly in a PUBLIC forum. Expressing your opinion is fine. Bashing your customers is not. Get a clue.

Hi, My opinion conflict with yours. I cannot help but have the urgent desire to start looking for another game. Have fun!

Just in case you all forgot: WURM IS A SURVIVAL GAME. I refuse to believe that all "PvE" players want the game to be as easy as possible. You already have it easy unless you're going into the wilderness without nothing at all and on your own. Some people consider that fun too. It makes good sense that carnivores would hunt animals. If the team feels confident that the server can now handle that extra level of simulation, then sure why not. It means we might actually see some predators that are not permanently "starving".

I swear WurmOnline is just an insane psychological experiment, where they are testing how much it takes to get PvE-players to stop playing! Throw in some pretty things which we do love every now and then, just to drag out the pain... then let trolls bash fences, nerf guards, add sharks, make carnivors attack and eat "prey" (aka our cart/wagon-animals), and we are still waiting for the jumping and flying - in general make us all feel we have to live on heavily fortified deeds, locking animals inside when logging off, never leaving deed unless we "have" to, and low skilled players needing escorts while travelling.... yeah, sounds like amazing PvE-fun! Congratulations, you finally succeeded in throwing out a patch where I can't even be bothered to log in and save my animals (hitched to carts and wagons, and not on deed when servers went down). There is just no point in adapting for me anymore, as it just becomes more and more obvious, that we aren't supposed to have fun when we play on PvE-servers. It is all supposed to be stress, chores, risk, risk and more risk - and the increasing worry about what they are going to throw at you next.