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Process raw tar. Raw tar needs processing in a " Tar Processing unit " ( new ) to be of any use. Tar processing unit ( similar to a forge but smaller and without a chimney, needs a couldron in construction ) is fueled by burning 20kg wood for cooking the raw tar into the following products From each 1kg of tar processed you get .50 tar pitch ( for ship building ), .25 carbon black oxide ( ingrediant for making ink and black paint/dye ), and .25 tar oil ( for using as lamp oil and general oil paint base. This tar oil will replace water, and water based colors will only be used as a dye for wood, leather and cloth items ). Also, mixing any dye on a 1 for 1 basis with clay makes a glaze that can be applied to clay items and fired resulting in a colored pottery item.

Let's remove decay prevention on deeds, as well. After all, how are the structures magically being kept in repair? The invisible groundskeepers don't have a barrel of planks or shards to take materials from. Not very realistic. Stop adding pointless complexity that does nothing but add chore.

I posted this in the other thread but i think it is a good solution so i am going to post it here too... Maybe we can add animal fat to the olive oil in some way to make the olive oil have more bulk to it? Like add olive oil and animal fat into a cauldron and boil it into "lamp oil"?

"The last thing I remembered before I entered the depth of the red death!"

Maybe we can add animal fat to the olive oil in some way to make the olive oil have more bulk to it? Like add olive oil and animal fat into a cauldron and boil it into "lamp oil"?

I spoke with Rolf a bit wanting some confirmation on things. Right now, it is ONLY olive oil that will be filled by guards. If you want to keep your lights lit with tar you'll have to manually fill them. I don't have an issue paying an extra 1s a month to insure that my lights are kept on, but it does seem like quite an ordeal to harvest 120 olive trees to ensure that 10 lights can stay lit for a month. I have well over 10 lights on my largest deed. There are already so many 'chores' that have to be done on-deed (farming before crops die, feeding animals, grooming animals, repairing, etc) that I feel this is starting to take away from some of the 'fun' of the game.

What this means to me: My deed will be dark except the hell horse and the forge... olive oil is simply not worth the effort. If tar is allowed, I will set up a tar bin for the lamps... but otherwise not worth it. Side note, have you tried to travel through an olive forest... it suuuuucks sooooo much trying to get through it. Please don't make this the norm! Please?

The CMP enters a new era. Please read the entire post before submitting information. Last Updated: 4th February 2013 High-res edition: http://noizeviolatio...wurm/CelebH.png or http://tinyurl.com/94dxfme Low-res edition: http://noizeviolatio...wurm/CelebL.png or http://tinyurl.com/8qjvqyu GMAP edition: http://tinyurl.com/ccb9dnd (this url will change with each update and updated less often) And now the complicated bits. Submissions Submissions should be made on this thread or with a private message. Deed submissions must include; Deed name Deed location Deed size/upkeep (do not include perimeter sizes) Alliance name, members and preferred colour (if applicable). Requests for special trade icons, traders, mailboxes, merchants or other icons as detailed below. Terrain submissions should be posted with a diagram. Clay and Tar resources can be submitted as a grid location. Do not submit names for lakes, seas, mountains, islands, that bump by your house, that OMFG awesome bit you once saw while you were hunting... The Grid The map grid is 64*64 squares. Each square represents 32*32 game tiles. The grid's x-axis is numbered 01-64. The grid's y-axis is listed A through to BL. Co-ordinates should be given as XY. e.g. 13AF or 03BB etc. Deeds Deeds are given in four sizes as follows; Homestead: 121 to 440 deed tiles Village: 441 to 1224 deed tiles OR between 1s and 2.449s upkeep (not counting guards) Town: 1225 to 2600 deed tiles OR between 2.45s and 5.2s upkeep (not counting guards) City: Over 2601 deed tiles OR above 5.2s upkeep (not counting guards) Any deed may request for its icon to be represented as a Market, Festival or Sermon site. Deeds requesting to be Markets should have at least 3 filled merchants stalls present. If the deed area is walled off it may request to be represented as a Fortified Village, Walled Town or Walled City. If the deed is named as a castle, citadel or fortress, in-game, then it may request to be represented as a castle icon. Deeds may request one specialist merchant icon. e.g. Leatherworker. Deeds may request mailbox, merchant or trader icons. Alliances Deeds can be shown to belong to an alliance using a colour-code system. Alliances can request a colour for their alliance. Allocation will depend on existing alliances within their area. In some cases where a alliance members are in close proximity to one another, the alliance can choose to have the alliance name on the map instead of individual deed names. Highways and Tunnels Only roads which qualify as Highways under the game rules may be submitted for the map. Cave canals may be submitted. Walkway tunnels that fall under the protection of Highways under the game rules may be submitted. Miscellaneous Deeds requesting to be Markets should have at least 3 filled merchants stalls present. Towers can be submitted by grid location. Towers may not be added if their position overlaps badly with an existing deed. All non-deed symbols/icons may be moved/removed as deeds have priority. Only a small selection of 'trades' or 'crafts' will be available as specialised merchant icons. Please do not repeatedly request more. Excessive squabbling will not convince me to add/amend anything. In fact, it might earn you a turd icon where your deed should be. Removals If you do not wish your deed to be shown, or wish to have it removed from the map, please contact me directly via PM.

As expected there are worries that it will become too much of a chore to keep lamps filled with oil or tar. Now, tar isn’t _really_ supposed to be used in lamps but it will still be possible to use of course since it would be too much of a nerf to remove that. Olive oil finally has the use and value it was supposed to from the very beginning. I’ve added the possibility to build an “oil barrel” which will hold huge amounts of olive oil. If you keep a barrel on deed the guards will use the oil within to fill your street lamps. Guards can only deal with olive oil though so you can’t fill it with tar. I also added the possibility to build armour stand and bow rack. The models are lacking for those as well but they will arrive eventually. I just had to restart the Epic servers for another reason so they received this update and can try it out a bit before the other servers which will be restarted tomorrow. View the full article

Prancerswift, young adult male hell horse It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It looks unusually strong and healthy. Starting bidding at 6 silver. No hidden reserve. Bidding in 50c increments. Bidding ends in five days at 6:30PM (Pacific Time) Sunday June 24. I am located at SE Inlet Seahorse Bay. Hell Horses are perhaps the game's ultimate "Combat Horse". Their speeds, attacks and defense greatly outstrip that of normal horses. They also breath fire as one of their attacks, in addition to their flaming animation \o/ However, they are not for everyone -- they require 31 Body Control to ride. They cannot swim or be lead by boat. They are very feisty and can often attack while being lead, or burn their rider while riding. Fo Priests with high enough favor can successfully avoid provoking them, so are the best "handlers" for this ultimate fighting mount. This may be the first five speed born on Deliverance server -- I hope to be corrected if this is not accurate. I am fairly sure Alyeska on Exodus server has already successfully accomplished a five speed hell horse, so I doubt very much this is a "gamewide" first (though happy to be corrected there too ...)

There’s nothing very radical in todays update except that Olive oil will become more useful because the bug where street lamps never used it up was fixed. The fix is according to how it was once supposed to be - that a full lamp is lit for something like 3-5 days. I suspect that it will be considered too much of a nerf now that everyone’s used to forever lamps. We’ll have to tone it down then I guess. There are also other small changes like typo fixes but nothing as notable as this. View the full article

Got another issue to deal with. Seems the guards will use ALL the olive oil ondeed. I have no way to save my good oil for compasses, guard will use it to refill the lamps. Just checked the little stash I had for compasses and it is almost gone already. And a small mention was made of what this is going to do to noobs. Let's address that more. A noob will have much more trouble getting a village started now and keeping it lit. How many will get a sickle, get the skill to harvest decent olives, and get the skill to press for olive oil without getting frustrated and quitting first? This adds a lot more work than some seem to realize, and all to no more purpose than to take up time. Time that could be fun, instead of another "chore" to do. This is a change to the game, but it is NOT an improvement.

Hmm.. interesting. So since this seems to be the problem will we maybe be able to get some feeding troughs for our animals now? *nudge, nudge*

Yes please! Would make forestry so much more usefull!

I'd prefer it the way it was, olive trees are by far the most hideous trees ingame, I don't want to make a farm of em. Also you can't get those olives just any time, and my fellow citizen just told me that olive season is still quite far away.. And our deed has about 25 lamps right now ... outside and inside the mine, I really don't feel like spending time on refilling those every 3-5 days or so. Fun is more important then realism, it's still a game.

Rolf, I guess I'm the one to remind you that lamps lasting forever ondeed is NOT a bug, it was a feature requested by the players a couple of years ago, and you took a long time before relenting and made them forever. All you have done is upset players for no good reason, and made Wurm go a lot darker. There are many problems that really NEED fixing, please concentrate your time on those things, instead of constantly creating these distractions from the real problems.

66 lamps on my Chaos deed, if they last 5 days, I need them refilled 6 times a month on average. With one olive producing enough oil to fill one lamp, that's almost 400 olives I need to harvest and press per month. I'm not going to fuel some "market" wasting money on buying 400 olives a month, so my lamps will just run dry since tar apparently isn't suitable or something? What's to be happy about?

Thanks for another stupid grindy chore that I could be doing without, Rolf.

Ok, first of all, the forever lamps were NOT a bug, it was a feature requested by the players a couple of years ago, and Rolf took a long time before he finally relented and gave us the forever lamp ondeed. Rolf has apparently forgotten this and needs to be reminded. All he has done is make a lot of villages go dark (I know mine will), and force more drudge work on those that still want to have light at night. No need to be more realistic, there are lots of unrealistic features in Wurm and we all accept those. I don't really see the need to "fix" this non-issue anyway, as we all know there are much bigger bugs he could be taking on. I am guessing that he may not know what to do about the other bugs, and hopes this will keep us distracted from the bigger issues. And as to Oracle's idea of a tar processor, that is called refining, and it is done in a refinery, basically a huge distillery. For all you realistic ones, oil and tar refining was invented in the 19th century, which places it as too advanced a technology for Wurm.

Simple...Make harvesting trees use forestry or gardening and give more for the Skill level 10 for 1, 30 for 2, etc...the same would go for grapes, cherries, etc.....I think this would be better than reverting anything and actually help other things like wine making.

Hmm, I don't agree with all the outrage and especially it's intensity, but I do agree that there are issues that should get way higher priority than something like this.

Let's do some math. Let's say you have 10 lamps on a deed. This is not an unreasonable number to light up an 11x11 deed and perhaps a mine under it. Lamps require .125 kg of oil or tar to fill. I'm assuming that hasn't been changed, please correct me if it has. An olive gives .06kg of oil. A lamp therefore requires around 2 olives to fill completely. The ten lamps in the example would require 20 olives. Let's give this the benefit of the doubt and put the time a full lamp remains lit at 5 days. That means every month you (or the guards) would have to refill them 6 times. The example deed would therefore have to harvest 20 times 6 or 120 olives a month to keep the oil barrel full enough to fill 10 lamps. So your choices are to harvest 120 olives every month or to manually refill them. In some regions this would be incredibly difficult as there aren't many olive trees around. Either reduce the amount of oil required to fill a lamp substantially or increase the amount of time lamps remain lit. This is a large nerf to deeds after people have gotten used to the convenience of not having to refill their lamps.

Never said it was or it wasn't, I just said forever lamps were abit unrealistic. I can only surmise that due to the unforgivable uproar a few lamps is causing that no matter what changes are ever made, good or bad (which is a matter of perspective) would just result in the same 'sky is falling' responces. To be honest, after 10+ years of gaming I've not quite seen small aspects of a community willing to throw themselves overboard in some kind of must commit suicide before the end arrives knee jerk reaction. Its almost bemusing but mostly a sad concern. Especially when the topic decends in to quotes from a dictionary. When a topic reaches that point its obvious its no longer about the original post but a vessel to vent frustrations.

Wow Rolf, I'm impressed, you recognized an unfavourable patch beforehand, promised to deal with it and provided a solution to it, that is exactly the way it should be. @others, throwing a tantrum, because you just lost your god mode cheat has never done anything, and it doesn't look pretty intelligent either. And constantly demanding the revert of patches that are good in themselves, just because they expose other problems, doesn't advance the game any. The way to go, is to do more stuff to handle the new issues. in that reagrd, some suggestions: - Make it so that tower guards can handle oil barrels as well. - Make it so we can harvest a treefull of fruit, not a handfull. Several actions on one tree would be a good way to do this. - Make a "candle box" so that the guards can resupply the candelabras. (btw, those never were perma lights, even on deed) - If you want to remove the Tar, make it so that it can be used only in iron torches, but that all finer lamps need olive or tar oil. The Tar prosessing that Oracle suggested is a nice idea. It doesn't need an extra structure though, any Cauldron in a fire should do. Lol, I just love it when people confuse it the meanings of realistic and real to justify their arguments. People do this all the time on this forum. Real means that it actually exists in our world now. Realistic means it could be possible coforming on the rules of physics. SciFi is mostly realistic. In a fantasy setting that realistic means it conforms to the rules of physics and magic.

I don't think the looting system is why many people avoid Wurm PvP...

I think it's really awesome that rolf responded so quickly with an alternative to a total nerf. I just hope that the olive oil doesn't decay in that barrel... Edit: having seen thorgot's calculations i've changed my mind. There is no way I can sustain the harvest rate required to keep my deed lit. Look's like i'll be playing in the dark

I fail to see why this is needed/wanted beyond giving players more "chores" in a..."game"...

Silly change. Who uses olive oil to fill their lights? It's seasonal, doesn't store well, requires a container to move it around... To make olive oil more used and useful, add it as a more common cooking component, or alchemy component, as suggested above. Removing benefits of deeds - even small benefits - does feel a bit like punishing those who actually pay for the game.

Two minor suggestions. 1. Allow toggle on/off for meditation titles. 2. The kingdom title for Freedom seems unnecessary on a cluster where everyone is the same kingdom. Instead of displaying 'Freedom', make it display your alliance name. Would help Chaos to differentiate too.

Aspired by bears hibernation, how would you like the monster lairs to get deleted and randomly respawn around the globe every spring ? I'd like to see some new monsters close to my deed

^ Sorry, but this is a bad intro to suggesting major changes to PvP. This is why you generally live together in larger villages instead of scattering into freedom style villages. Stand united, pay united, raid united. It's about community. That's the thrill. You can get the other dudes gear. You can lose yours. No real comment, not fitting to make assumptions. Each to their own. Each to their own. Wild and Epic are for the ones who like to live together, pretty much. Freedom exists for people who doesn't like that playstyle. Or in reverse, Wild/Epic exists for the people who don't like the freedom playstyle. Please don't attempt to force one on the other. Sorry, but no. Impossible to out-fight as a single player player? Sure, if recruitment is like 20s and 10s/mo upkeep. So, if you wear a backpack with your items in it, it wouldn't be looted? What the hell would be the point in this? I seriously can't think of a single thing I'd carry in PvP that wouldn't fit in a backpack, except from cotton maybe. Each to their own.

what purpose would it serve? you cannot command a small cart. you want yo use the small cart to side step the premium requirement for large carts by leading the small cart around? I can only see this if the same requirement is attached or another body stat is required to be 20.1

I am having this issue as well. Java7 and the game doesn't run. Reverting to 6 is not an option because this isnt the only application I run which uses Java and the other, more important, application requires Java7. Here is a novel Idea.... get rid of the flakey coding that is causing the crash instead of telling people to revert to old versions. I run the game on 3 different computers and none of them work... Just fix it.