Posted April 3, 2013 The Rule as from http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/7-game-rules/#entry718669 Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area, composed of fences (excluding hedges and woven fences), gates or walls, and attached to or surrounding a house with at least completed bottom level walls. The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area.1. It Easy to understand that must be a house with all its ground floor walls completed2. The Fenced must be attached to the house or surrounding the house. Hedges and Woven fences do not count. My Question to better understand the rules is What is consider Vissible?A house each 5 tiles? - as this would also prevent deeding? -> For bigger areas.A house thats is visible from any part of the fencing?A house on each corner as long as its visible? (On short render thats ~15 tiles) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 I think most people use it as if you can see ANY house then it is protected but if we want to stop large enclosures maybe it should be just the one? I would be interested in seeing what the staff has to say about this too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 I think it's time to apply common decency and common sense in the enclosure rule. If it looks used and has buildings attached, find somewhere else. Different graphics settings makes distances render differently, so just check the perimeter. If there is a gate house, it's a perimeter. Regardless of the rules, any bashing of fences or walls which enclose animals or crops is simply griefing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 I think most people use it as if you can see ANY house then it is protected but if we want to stop large enclosures maybe it should be just the one? I would be interested in seeing what the staff has to say about this too. It was reworded not so long time ago, and to my understanding and how I read it now, its that the ground floor of ANY ONE house must be visible from all sides of the enclosure. So making a 100x100 enclosure with several houses is not a legal enclosure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 It was reworded not so long time ago, and to my understanding and how I read it now, its that the ground floor of ANY ONE house must be visible from all sides of the enclosure. So making a 100x100 enclosure with several houses is not a legal enclosure.That is the way i read it too making the legal enclosure much smaller than most people think it can be. But then you get into other issues like trees if a tree is blocking the view is that also stopping the enclosure from being a legal enclosure too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) If freedom still had the wonderful limited pvp that the alignment/outlaw system allowed for we wouldn't have to worry about this. Edited April 3, 2013 by Elen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 Just so you all know why I ask, I got 3 deeds preventing me from expanding 1 single tile, But to my South is a open area of 10x15 (Note that 10 means I can`t deed it with a second deed). The deeds around me is Alliance deed and we are in agreement that I can use My perimeter + that area for farms.But how to protect it from being bashed in by someone reading between the rules?I went the Full 1x1 house each tile method but I ain't sure if that is overkill or not.I saw a deed attachment go 60+ tiles with a house each ~20 tiles all the way up a mountain (Paris on pristine) and to me it was visible.And just got the update on the trees post while typing. There is a lot of trees on deed as deed actual is a tree farm. But houses are on the outside so No way of anyone claiming houses ain't visible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 10x15? Stick one building as a gatehouse then wall it. That's protected as far as the griefing rule is concerned. Nothing stopping anyone from doing it, but they could get an account suspension if they do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 i don't know i guess it is just a case by case thing but it is like bwg said most people will leave the area alone if it looks kept and the people around you are okay with things you should be fine. I find most things are caused but newbies or mad neighbors and most newbies can't bash walls so if everyone in the area is fine with it you will be okay i guess. If not then you will have to get a staff member to answer it for you i guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 You must recall that there was an addendum to that after multi-story was released, now all walls of the houses must be visible from outside the fence (as to ensure that the houses are complete, since incomplete houses void the enclosure). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) house enclosed with fences......gates..walls.using multiple houses suggests you would need multiple enclosures.But I think one house one enclosure should be it.Not use 50 1x1 houses to stretch the wall line and have every house count as "the House" that is visible.Basically what i see today in some cases does not apply to an enclosure. Edited April 3, 2013 by Protunia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 Honestly the other thing to consider is that if you have fairly HQ walls (which you'll likely want anyway being offdeed due to maintenance issues) it's going to be such a pain to knock them down that it's simply not going to be worth it. Who would want to go through the effort to knock down a HQ wall for farm tiles? As you said they can't deed the area due to size constraints so they would be limited to taking what is inside the enclosure. When you take into consideration the low reward versus the effort/risk of banning it's just highly unlikely you would have any problems unless someone just has an intense dislike of you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 I think most people use it as if you can see ANY house then it is protected but if we want to stop large enclosures maybe it should be just the one? I would be interested in seeing what the staff has to say about this too.I would be so happy with this, im tired of old player land grabbers, or even ISLAND grabbers, simply because they wall in the entire thing with high ql stuff that doesnt decay for a year, +1+1+1 +10000!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2013 My view (and certainly what I would say in answer to a support call) is this:If there is a single house which has the whole ground story complete and is within or attached to the fenced enclosure, and it is visible from all areas of the enclosure at maximum settings, then it is definitely protected from bashing unless a deed extends over a section (in which case deed owner can bash at will).If there are many houses, at least one of which is completed at ground floor and visible at all times (i.e. many completed "gatehouses" for a single enclosure) then I wouldn't try to bash it without calling /support. However if I was the builder I would consider apportioning the area amongst the various buildings into individual enclosures.If I wanted to absolutely prevent anyone being able to have any chance of bashing into the area at all in the short term, i would have individual enclosures small enough to put houses along each corner/side so that no deed can be snuck through, with all buildings visible from all parts of the enclosure. This is an extreme example at which point it probably isn't worth the effort since perimeter will evict you eventually if someone is that dedicated anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 Build large houses and just farm the dirt floor. Totally secure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) Build large houses and just farm the dirt floor. Totally secure.You can't farm inside buildings. Unless you're talking about donut houses, but that would be such a waste of time imo. Edited April 4, 2013 by Laiwyn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) It was reworded not so long time ago, and to my understanding and how I read it now, its that the ground floor of ANY ONE house must be visible from all sides of the enclosure. So making a 100x100 enclosure with several houses is not a legal enclosure.Instead of 'your understanding' you need to take the time to reread it instead of just using your opinion as fact. It stills says A HOUSE. And even if it did say any one house then which one out of a possible infinite number?What puzzles me is why any of you are so keen on bashing down someone's fence to steal their livestock or resources. There is ample free land and resources to be had by all. No need to destroy what others have worked hard to make or get. Edited April 4, 2013 by Sarcaticous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) Instead of 'your understanding' you need to take the time to reread it instead of just using your opinion as fact. It stills says A HOUSE. And even if it did say any one house then which one out of a possible infinate number?What puzzles me is why any of you are so keen on bashing down someone's fence to steal their livestock or resources. There is ample free land and resources to be had by all. No need to destroy what others have worked hard to make or get. I have seen an area almost impassable to anyone before. There was a fence down the whole side effectively blocking off anyone from passing that area without either getting off your horse and leading it across water or going by boat to get to the other side of the mountain where the large steppe was. The only other way around was to go 100+ tiles to the other side where there was ONE road that you could use to access the steppe and it went through a deed or i guess it would have been blocked too.Edit: There is/was also an island on Release that the whole island was fenced off and it was not a small one in fact i think it was the largest one there. Not sure if it still is or not but it was the last time i was around it. Edited April 4, 2013 by Kegan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 And the problem was what? You had to go around? If having to go around fenced off areas is a problem then Rolf could easily fix that two ways. Limit enclosure size and protect perimiters from tree cutting, mining and terraforming. Those two things would eliminate a huge number of fences. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 Instead of 'your understanding' you need to take the time to reread it instead of just using your opinion as fact. I couldn't care less about your confrontational tone. You have your opinion, I have mine, I am most likely correct, no need to be all aggressive about it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 The rule is flawed as render distance of houses depends upon graphics settings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 Would be nice to hear from an actual GM about this, since it's clear that there's a lot of different interprentations of the rule. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 4, 2013 I couldn't care less about your confrontational tone. You have your opinion, I have mine, I am most likely correct, no need to be all aggressive about it.Not my opinion. A quote from the rules. Here it is in full as stated by Oracle http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/7-game-rules/ post #2:Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area, composed of fences (excluding hedges and woven fences), gates or walls, and attached to or surrounding a house with at least completed bottom level walls. The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area.Please notice it says a house. Nothing confrontational. Nothing confusing. Just the facts.Now, when you start throwing in time of day, graphics settings, weather and who knows what else THEN it becomes as clear as mud. And in my opinion the rule falls flat. Need something better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 5, 2013 The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area. I still read that as all of the houses must be visible from all sides of the enclosure. If that is not the case, then its just worded extremely badly and should be changed back to the old wording. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 5, 2013 If there are multiple houses in an enclosure there has to be one house that has a completed bottom floor and all walls are visible from all parts of the fence. That's all to meet the definition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites