What Rule Prevents "boxing In"?

[Archaegeo 136]

So we have a situation on our server.

Freedom Server Discussion

Suffice it to say that Party A ticked off another group of parties (Party B who then proceded to Enclosure Rule fence in the Party A's deed so he cannot leave it.

Now my question is, other than sucking, how does this violate any of the official Game Rules?

To quote relevant sections:

Its not Griefing, even though this is the most common answe, as the official rules define Griefing as:

Griefing

Griefing is any harassment such as, defamation of character (insulting their race, gender, creed, nationality or sexuality), continuous use of unfavorable emotes, or failure to abide to a GM instruction.

And they are using the Enclosure rules and the fact its in his perimeter:

Breaking fences.

It is illegal to break any fence that does not belong to you AND is also a part of an enclosure.

Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area, composed of fences (excluding hedges and woven fences), gates or walls, and attached to or surrounding a house with at least completed bottom level walls. The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area.

And

Perimeters:

Perimeters are considered as part of the wilderness.

Finally, the part of the rules that talk about the ability to exit a deed only applies if you are KOS on the deed you are trying to exit.

So, as a purely scientific exercise, how can the GM tell them to take down their legally built enclosures?

In theory Party A could have protected his deed access by building a highway away from it.

Party B are definitly, within the rules, reacting to offense taken from Party A. Does Party A have the right to give offense with no consequences for his actions? Does party B have the right, within the rules, to remove the ability for Party A to leave his deed?

Discussion?

Edited February 20, 2013 by Archaegeo

[san_tropez 394]

You are not allowed to trap or fence people inside something they cannot exit on their own

Edited February 20, 2013 by san_tropez

[Asciana 303]

This is a ###### move. Call in GMs and smash it down.

[Archaegeo 136]

San,

The point being that it does not say that anywhere. Party B built legal enclosures in wilderness land (perimeter = wilderness).

Party A in theory could dig till he hit rock (assuming rock under him) then mine out.

Asciana,

I agree is a crap move, but its legal as far as I can tell. Why should Party A be able to tick off Party B, through words or actions, with no consequences?

[Wulfgar 1,128]

Questions:

Is any one house in that enclosure visible from all sides of the enclosure? How big is the enclosure?

Do a /support and any GM will destroy that enclosure. It is against the FCC anyway and some rules are not written down because they are kind of common sense.

If your logic applies and its not illegal to fence in other people's deeds, then everyone could just fence in each others enclosures until the whole server was one giant enclosure which only the last builder would have the rights to

(if we ignore the fact that the enclosure rule was changed recently to limit the size)

[Acaos 100]

Griefing

Griefing is any harassment such as, defamation of character (insulting their race, gender, creed, nationality or sexuality), continuous use of unfavorable emotes, or failure to abide to a GM instruction.

fencing someone in their own deed is harassment, the above are examples, not limited to.

Party A in theory could dig till he hit rock (assuming rock under him) then mine out

also BS, what if theyre too close to the water level? or there is no rock, they could also be on an island, this is not an excuse

Edited February 20, 2013 by Acaos

[KleverMonkey 17]

Really?

I hope this is a troll but I’ll bite.

The person who built the fence is griefing the player on the deed by not allowing them to leave their deed. The player has to be allowed the ability to go to the market or sail to other servers if they so choose. Blocking them in is causing the player to have a negative gaming experience that is not accidental. Because the action taken was premeditated the player who took the action meant to interrupt the victims ability to play the game.

[Archaegeo 136]

Funny part is it would be totally allowed on epic

Griefing on Epic is very simple, no defamation of character (insulting their race, gender, creed, nationality or sexuality).

Even if you lacked the strength to do anythign about it.

[san_tropez 394]

Funny part is that Epic is a PvP server where you don't need GM's to keep the turbonerds in bay

[Emane 158]

Is any one house visible

Questions:

Is any one house in that enclosure visible from all sides of the enclosure? How big is the enclosure?

Do a /support and any GM will destroy that enclosure. It is against the FCC anyway and some rules are not written down because they are kind of common sense.

If your logic applies and its not illegal to fence in other people's deeds, then everyone could just fence in each others enclosures until the whole server was one giant enclosure which only the last builder would have the rights to

(if we ignore the fact that the enclosure rule was changed recently to limit the size)

FCC is not enforceable and has been stated as such many times as only guidelines. Also nowhere does it say one single house must be visible from everywhere around the enclosure.....it says rather that all 4 sides of said building must be visible. even if that takes 10 buildings to make at least one visible from every point of an enclosure. Simple arched walls make all 4 visible if even one is placed in the 1x1 building....

[junkkmann 82]

i was fenced in deliberately, the person left a messgae, and the gm's said thats they couldnt help me. Gm finally agreed to teleport me out of the enclosure but that was all they did. nothing was done to the fencer.

[Hussars 511]

The tl;dr version: Intentional blocking a deed's owner/citizen/invited guest's access to/from that deed should get the enclosure breeched/removed by a GM. Any action past that would be up to the GM to decide.

Longer Version:

There is enough precedent on Freedom as a whole to support this being considered as a "griefing" tactic. There have been several discussions in the server specific forums about exploiting various conflicting areas between the FCC and the official rules to limit or remove a players ability to leave an area or access to their deed specifically.

Previous cases that have been openly discussed mention as much as entire enclosures or even deeds being removed with no cost returned to the person who built them as a griefing attempt. Just remember, it would be up to the GM, and my understanding is that they have a system to determine what level of response to impose.

::Edit insert::

Links:

Suspected Meat Milling Deed (I specifically mentioned a tactic like this for such deeds as a joke and to illustrate the issues with the old enclosure rules (link)

Edited February 20, 2013 by Hussars

[Aodhan 1]

This exacat situation has occured many times, and publicly debated many times thru the history of the games.

Total blockage is greifing. GM's will attempt to work it out with both parties but ultimatly, the blocking fence will be removed at some point, either by your Party 'B' or by the GM.

(actually, there have been some very very hot fights over this in the past...you should read the posts!!)

But its always Greifing and the fences are always removed.

[Archaegeo 136]

It really should be a black and white rule.

It's the problem with the fact we have rules that are not hard coded. Any rules that re not hard coded must be black and white and clearly stated.

That way gm's would be called in for violations, not, as in this case, interpretation of a situation.

Neither party has violated a rule in this case, unless of course party A verbally harassed party B leading to the enclosing.

[Emane 158]

No! The problem is that someone knows something to be wrong and does it anyhow with no conscience......Was a time when community was what the game was about.respect was given. deeds were placed a min of 10 tiles from another's perimeter, and potential neighbors were spoken with prior to placement. A time when common courtesy was a given and those who didn't were kos on 90% of the server for acting against the fcc!

Downfall is that it has become a community of 'if it isnt against the rules specifically Ill do as I want!' I see even people who were once on the 'helpful players' list who have become serious smart alecs and think their stuff dont stink anymore with serious attitude problems.

Bringing a subject such as this into the eye of the populace only makes such things worse! Tend my words, someone will use this post as justification to box someone in you just wait and see...simply because it was pointed out that there was not a 'specific' rule!

[yarnevk 257]

(if we ignore the fact that the enclosure rule was changed recently to limit the size)

where is this? I just checked the game rules and the enclosure rule is not changed it does not mention size other than what is previously said about visibility of house.

I was sure there was a rule about fencing someone in is defined as griefing but cannot find it. They can fence you in, it just has to have a unlocked gate is what I thought it said. Though I recall in CA chat as well as forum a friend locked a friend (or corpse) inside their gate and the CA said hope your friend comes back, they cannot help stupid, so maybe indeed this is not a defined rule.

Edited February 21, 2013 by yarnevk

[yarnevk 257]

Funny part is it would be totally allowed on epic

Of course because you are allowed to bash the fence in to get out. You are not allowed to bash a legal enclosure on Freedom.

Edited February 21, 2013 by yarnevk

[Archaegeo 136]

The problem with your position Emane is that you consider the blocking in the rude behavior, what about the actions that led them to believe it was their old recourse to deal with someone.

A gm wouldn't intervene for someone just being unfriendly

[Chiclet 70]

Blocking somebody into their 1) legal enclosure or 2) actual deed is rude. And hostile. And generally incredibly bad sportsmanship. I don't buy the argument for a second that it's Party B's only recourse to anything at all. So they don't like Party A. Maybe they actively hate Party A. Maybe they wish Party A would just up and die already so they can dance on his or her grave and send out flowers to the neighbors. That doesn't excuse the douchebaggery of it all no matter how hostile and antagonistic Party A actually was to anger Party B so. What is fencing supposed to actually *accomplish*, other than turning a boiling pot into a volcano?

Building a fence and locking somebody into an area is petty. It should be emphatically be a cause for account banning to do so. It's denying somebody else's paid (or even unpaid, I'm not going to draw any premium vs free lines here) right to play the game THEIR way and nobody's temper tantrum should have that much control over another player's experience. There's a /ignore feature for a reason so Parties A & B never have to sully the other's airwaves if they get along so badly.

That would be the proper, adult response. Ignore the player and move on with your farming/breeding/shipbuilding/global domination plans for the evening.

[Emane 158]

TY Chiclet..was exactly what I was going to point out...hard to be rude when they cant hear you! Boxing in is never the 'only' option...if being abused verballly log it and send to GM's, move away, or /ignore 'name'....problem solved without 'griefing' the person back and potentially being on the wrong end of the GM decision for doing so..

Edited February 21, 2013 by Emane

[Protunia 735]

Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area,It cannot be an enclosure if the area inside is not secure.

Because there is a deed inside they do not own and land that is not secured by them the enclosure is invalid.

Basically they have to own, possess, and secure everything inside the enclosure for it to be a valid enclosure.

In this case the GM should have broken the walls as its also griefing/harrassment to box in someones deed.

I would pm Enki and Oracle regarding this.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Protunia

[Keldun 335]

I didn't think I'd ever agree with Protunia on anything, but he nailed it exactly on the spot..

i was fenced in deliberately, the person left a messgae, and the gm's said thats they couldnt help me. Gm finally agreed to teleport me out of the enclosure but that was all they did. nothing was done to the fencer.

To be honest, If I were Head GM I'd seriously consider demoting those GMs. That's obvious harassment and needs to be dealt with.

The enclosure not being legal in the first place should be the minor issue here.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Keldun

[Archaegeo 136]

Wait, lets say you have a 5x5+5 minimum deed, if along one of your perimeters (5 tiles long) i make a 5 tile long by 3 tile wide fenced area with a 1x1 house in the middle, its an enclosure. It doesnt matter if the land OUTSIDE the enclosure (your deed) is covered or not

So if they made enclosures all around his deed, which is what I was told had occured, it doesnt matter if the deeded area is covered, its the legality of each individual enclosure.

And regarding reasoning, perhaps Party A intruded first, perimetering over a non-deed structure, or goign into someone elses perimeter structure and deforesting it, who knows. Its a gray area that needs to be black an white.

Of course I agree that making it so the guy cant get off his deed is wrong. But my question remains, as the subject says, where is it against the rules.

Griefing, if loosely interpreted, seems to be as close as we can get.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Archaegeo

[Wulfgar 1,128]

i was fenced in deliberately, the person left a messgae, and the gm's said thats they couldnt help me. Gm finally agreed to teleport me out of the enclosure but that was all they did. nothing was done to the fencer.

Do you play on a non-pvp server?

Is this related at all to the OP?

FCC is not enforceable and has been stated as such many times as only guidelines.

Nevertheless they have been enforced at least 3 times that I know of.

Also as Acaos pointed out, fencing in other players is griefing as it counts as harassment.

Griefing, if loosely interpreted, seems to be as close as we can get.

As I said, common sense prevents a 100-page long Games Rules thread. Harassment covers lots of things, like fencing in people's deeds (never heard it happen outside pvp servers), The grey area is where the GM's have a difficulty deciding intent. There is no difficulty in that if you fence someones entire deed in.

If you cut down every tree in a 100x100 area around someone's deed and turn it into a huge desert, you might get away with it, but if you threaten him in chat first and show that you only do this to annoy him, you might get banned.

[Hula_Girl 266]

I'm afraid you can't effectively write black and white rules that prevent this, and many other things, from happening. A clever individual, or a group, will always find the way to grief. That's where the GMs should step in and recognize griefing as griefing.