The Great Fence Of China

[Clatius 455]

-1 Fences are your friends. Learn to love them and they will learn to love you in return.

[Talilon 57]

How about:

Make the decay a percentage of the QL. That way the fences of newer players are still maintainable, while high-QL fences go down with larger jumps each time decay hits them. Makes the loss of fences to decay when not maintained more evenly spread out.

Yes, this does discourage making fences of high QL (or imping them high up) up to a point (though higher QL could still be much tougher to take down by bashing them, making it still meaningful to make high QL) - but on the plus-side it woud mean that abandoned deeds/places with large area's fenced in with high QL fences (the ones able to make that high QL are also the ones often taking up quite a bit of land) would be opened up for traveling through again just as quickly as the (often much smaller area's ) of low-QL fences would be. Also, maintaining is much quicker for more-skilled players, so maintenance-times would still be reasonable for those with high-QL fences too (without making maintenance of low-QL fences almost impossible).

This seems to go against the entire purpose of making items hq

There has to be a better way. Fences do seem to decay fast enough as it is imo. But what about linking them to the last person that worked on them? If that person doesn't log in for a month increase decay rate slightly?

[Alyeska 2,621]

Ah, and here it is. The true reason. Yet another nerf the enclosure thread. Really gets boring.

Did you even read the OP? It is exactly about enclosures. Normal fences are annoying, but at least they can be removed (though it is way too much work to bash them. Even with high strength, a high ql axe, and double structure amage it can take quite a while to take a low ql wood fence down) They're in the way. Of everything. If you've never heard about a shortage of land.. well.. I guess you have kchat off or have never been to the starter town of whatever server is the default choice from the tutorial.

[kraten 6]

I am writing this post as I destroy Iron Fences on my own deed so I can re-arrange my layout. I have 32 Body Strength and use a 20 QL Large Maul on a 33 QL Iron Fence on my own deed.It took 18 actions to destroy it and a time of 9 minutes! For 1 fence! How this is still in affect to take that long to destroy something you built yourself is beyond me. This goes beyond fences also as abandoned FSB, ovens, forges, tables, beds, chests, all take similar time to destroy. Which is a whole other post.

After reading all this posts before this, here is what I propose:

1) Players gain a substantial bonus to destroying fences and 'move only items' they create or reduce the destroy timer to 10 seconds. This should go far in reducing abandoned new player sites and aid seasoned players in changing layouts of their deeds. This will not contribute to any greifing of others.

2) Increase all fence decay rates by 20%. Systemparadox did a study on fences in 2010 (I don't know if any fence decay updates have happened since) here:

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Empirical_Evaluation_of_Fences

Note: it was done on Golden Valley which decays 3x faster.

If that is true, his graph shows a 20QL fence would would take (on a premium server) about 9 months just to get to the 60% graphic change showing higher decay. Now how can anyone say "this would make it harder on new players". By the time their fence rots they're not even new players anymore! If an item used to repair a fence reduces decay by 20 damage this means you only need to repair a section once every 3 months to maintain 0 damage. This contributes to land hording.

Now noone argues the importance of a fence, but it is not such a godly item as to deserve near immortality.

[Clatius 455]

I am writing this post as I destroy Iron Fences on my own deed so I can re-arrange my layout. I have 32 Body Strength and use a 20 QL Large Maul on a 33 QL Iron Fence on my own deed.It took 18 actions to destroy it and a time of 9 minutes! For 1 fence! How this is still in affect to take that long to destroy something you built yourself is beyond me. This goes beyond fences also as abandoned FSB, ovens, forges, tables, beds, chests, all take similar time to destroy. Which is a whole other post.

After reading all this posts before this, here is what I propose:

1) Players gain a substantial bonus to destroying fences and 'move only items' they create or reduce the destroy timer to 10 seconds. This should go far in reducing abandoned new player sites and aid seasoned players in changing layouts of their deeds. This will not contribute to any greifing of others.

2) Increase all fence decay rates by 20%. Systemparadox did a study on fences in 2010 (I don't know if any fence decay updates have happened since) here:

http://www.wurmpedia...ation_of_Fences

Note: it was done on Golden Valley which decays 3x faster.

If that is true, his graph shows a 20QL fence would would take (on a premium server) about 9 months just to get to the 60% graphic change showing higher decay. Now how can anyone say "this would make it harder on new players". By the time their fence rots they're not even new players anymore! If an item used to repair a fence reduces decay by 20 damage this means you only need to repair a section once every 3 months to maintain 0 damage. This contributes to land hording.

Now noone argues the importance of a fence, but it is not such a godly item as to deserve near immortality.

LMAO. Do yourself a favor. Make a catapult. It's your own fault it took so long. They have already said they are looking into decay again.

[Clatius 455]

Did you even read the OP? It is exactly about enclosures. Normal fences are annoying, but at least they can be removed (though it is way too much work to bash them. Even with high strength, a high ql axe, and double structure amage it can take quite a while to take a low ql wood fence down) They're in the way. Of everything. If you've never heard about a shortage of land.. well.. I guess you have kchat off or have never been to the starter town of whatever server is the default choice from the tutorial.

Enclosure isn't mentioned once. Just fences. And you complain about using axes? LMAO. One word. Catapult. I've never heard of a land shortage either. I don't have kchat or global off. I see people asking where a good place is but they always find a place. That would tell me there is no shortage. And there's a whole new server in a few days plus Rolf has a whole new map just waiting to be used if it's needed. It's not needed which is a good way to tell that there is plenty of land. I think maybe you are lazy and don't want to take the time. Oh, and enclosures are also normal fences. Not like they are enchanted fences or anything. LMAO

Forgot to make my personal position clear in this message even though I think they'll further nerf fences. They should probably nerf penned animals too but that's a different subject:

-1

Edited December 7, 2012 by Clatius

[Alyeska 2,621]

Enclosure isn't mentioned once. Just fences. And you complain about using axes? LMAO. One word. Catapult. I've never heard of a land shortage either. I don't have kchat or global off. I see people asking where a good place is but they always find a place. That would tell me there is no shortage. And there's a whole new server in a few days plus Rolf has a whole new map just waiting to be used if it's needed. It's not needed which is a good way to tell that there is plenty of land. I think maybe you are lazy and don't want to take the time. Oh, and enclosures are also normal fences. Not like they are enchanted fences or anything. LMAO

Enclosures arent normal fences. enclosures are fences you are not allowed to bash.

No, I'm not lazy. I'm thinking about massive enclosures around the starting areas where the idea is that new people can settle down for a bit while learning the game, but this is difficult when there is fences all over the place. Especially if these fences cannot even be bashed by peoepl willing to clean up the place.

You suggest building a sieging machine, designed for raiding fortified towns, to take down some newbie fences? That is ridiculous, and even someone like you should be able to realise this.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Alyeska

[AnonMalice 30]

I say a kind activity buffer for the creator, seeing as how i love breeding hostile mobs and using fence pens ro do so i would rather not hav to turn off hostile mob protection on deed and i surely don't want my fences to get a 10-1000x increase in damage rate it would truly be annoying. However I will+1 if the operation to resolve this wasnt taken lightly and had an actual system ( like an activity check/buffer for the creator) before the damage multiplier was put into play.

[Clatius 455]

Enclosures arent normal fences. enclosures are fences you are not allowed to bash.

No, I'm not lazy. I'm thinking about massive enclosures around the starting areas where the idea is that new people can settle down for a bit while learning the game, but this is difficult when there is fences all over the place. Especially if these fences cannot even be bashed by peoepl willing to clean up the place.

You suggest building a sieging machine, designed for raiding fortified towns, to take down some newbie fences? That is ridiculous, and even someone like you should be able to realise this.

Abandoned fences were mentioned. That would include enclosures. But who determines abandoned? Maybe someone has been called away and can't get into the game for days or weeks. Should they be punished because they have a life outside of WURM?

The starting area is an extremely small portion of a server. If you are concerned about that small area then limit increased decay to that small area and leave the rest of us alone. I am one of those who, from time to time, has to answer the call of duty. I may not get back to the game for a month or two. Should I lose everything for that?

I suggest using something that readily reduces fences to rubble. If you want to waste time and effort bashing fences with your head be my guest.

And in case you missed it the first, second, third or fouth time in the forum, increased decay is already being considered.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Clatius