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Rolf

Weapon Skill Changes

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Wait.... what? You had 50 body control on Epic? On Wild/Freedom I can imagine that is easily plausible, but I just can't imagine anyway on Epic anyone can legit get 50 body control legit on Epic. I know some of the best crafters - Gomeo, Trollface, Nefretiti, Father, these guys (and gal) craft so much and I think are all <40 BC.

Why shouldn't it be possible to do on Epic?

My account on Wild is past 45 body control, after playing closely to a year. If you put time into it, it's absolutely possible. Especially if you've the cash to do it.

Archery is a really nice way to do it, and if you buy your arrows off other players, you save an immense amount of time, and if he's also buying sleep powder in addition, it's no wonder he would reach 50 bc on Epic in no time, especially since the curve is applied.

Edited by Balmore

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Maybe I am confused but it sounds like part of this "borderline exploit" is the whole shooting alts thing, which is what you did to get such high archery on Wild too. Maybe I am wrong though, unsure if that's what the whole post or change is about. If you weren't abusing that feature and shooting alts you wouldn't of had nowhere near 45 BC. Again, I don't know if this is the exploit or bug Rolf is talking about that got changed, but with the addition of "spy prevention" it was meant to remove that type of abuse, of course there are work arounds to it.

Yes I suppose people could reach 50BC /that/ way, but I am saying legit crafting/hunting way, and not using alts and bending the game mechanics as you did it would be very hard to have 50. It's always questionable if those type of game mechanics should ever be allowed, and if they should freely give that much skill. It is a borderline exploit, I agree. You shouldn't be allowed shoot an alt willingly and get skill from it.

I don't really blame people for using it though - I blame Rolf for just now taking action for something that was being used back in 2009. There's 0 reason you should get any skill boost from shooting an enemy, or shield training on an enemy. That's a poor mechanic that screamed to be abused, and people did just that. You can't dangle meat in front of a lion then be surprised when he takes it.

Edited by Postes

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Why shouldn't it be possible to do on Epic?

My account on Wild is past 45 body control, after playing closely to a year. If you put time into it, it's absolutely possible. Especially if you've the cash to do it.

Archery is a really nice way to do it, and if you buy your arrows off other players, you save an immense amount of time, and if he's also buying sleep powder in addition, it's no wonder he would reach 50 bc on Epic in no time, especially since the curve is applied.

Yeah but shooting alts to get almost 100 archery shouldn't be a viable argument for gaining a certain amount of stats. And personally I don't want to see alt abuse here on epic too. Rolf doesn't either, hence the whole alt protection thing.

If there's a ton of heavy grinders in the game on epic that don't have 50 body control as well, doesn't something seem... off? I mean, I've spent hours upon hours grinding archery on trolls and stuff to get decent/good archery, and I've been crafting since the server started pretty much. Yet.. I don't have 40 body control.

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Maybe I am confused but it sounds like part of this "borderline exploit" is the whole shooting alts thing, which is what you did to get such high archery on Wild too. Maybe I am wrong though, unsure if that's what the whole post or change is about. If you weren't abusing that feature and shooting alts you wouldn't of had nowhere near 45 BC.

The shooting of alts is quite irrelevant.

It always gave the same amount of skillgain, but you could only shoot 100 arrows per 4 hours. And it took about 15 minutes to shoot them.

In other words, you would gain more for hunting.

The main problem I had with that on wild was the weird terrain and the, back in that time, low creature rate.

So now apply this to Epic.

More even terrain, not as much annoying slopes etc etc. What's the point? It's easier to recollect your arrows once you shot them around.

Rolf has upped the animal spawns quite a few times, especially on Epic, when i go out of my deed there its so crowded, it's absolutely believeable that people are close to 50 bc, if you ask me.

I really don't try to make up for myself here, I haven't played actively for 8 months. I am only logging in now and then to put new upkeep into my deed so it won't vanish, if I ever feel like playing again. So take my honest opinion or doubt it. I am out of this thread again.^^

edit:

MrGary, as I said, I've bought almost all the arrows I've used on Wild. That was an amount of like 5000-6000 arrows, mostly above 40 QL. So they lasted forever.

Edited by Balmore

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Irrelevant? Lol. You're missing the point. It's not irrelevant just because now someone addressed that you also abused and used a game mechanic as many others (myself included) did. It's perfectly relevant, it debunks your whole theory of "Hey it's easy to get 50 body control." No, it's not, it's easy when you use mechanics like you did which were meant to be disallowed on Epic.

Edited by Postes

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Irrelevant? Lol. You're missing the point.

Meh, now you made me post again here.. :P

Well, from what I read in Rolf's post there was a bug where you could shoot creatures with arrow shafts.

So why do you even bring up alts? o.o

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Because you said, "My account on Wild is past 45 body control, after playing closely to a year. If you put time into it, it's absolutely possible. Especially if you've the cash to do it."

Yes, you got 45 BC off shooting alts, something not really meant to be allowed on Epic. It's relevant. It's a mechanic that is abused easily, it's not easy to get 50 body control "legit." It's very easy to do it in the manner in which you did it.

I am saying people who don't wish to abuse alts have a much harder time getting 50 BC legit. Not everyone wants to do what you did and shoot alts.

Edited by Postes

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He's bringing it up because you are bringing up your body control...

Damnit I'm too slow.

Edited by Joemog

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No one wants to sit there shooting at creatures (or alts - it is irrelevant here because it was the arrow shaft thing that made it wrong, not the target). They did it anyways because the truth is that hunting with bow is boring and not worth it.

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Ah.. Well if you want to stick onto that detail so much, go ahead. It was a legal method on Wild, otherwise Rolf would have removed the skillgain entirely instead of adding a "cooldown".

Anyways, I shot 200 arrows onto 2 alts for ~11 months, using the occasional 30 minutes of sleep bonus I had everyday, and an extra of 3-5 times 5h sleep bonus from server crashes. So you could basically say 30 minutes of archery daily.

Now honestly, think about it, how long do some of you grind a day? If you are smithing for a couple of hours, others might be hunting animals in that time.

I could really care less, it's not like I am getting my wild account nerfed or anything (and btw, I am just barely at 22bc on epic ;-) ) I am just getting annoyed at this attitude that some people just cannot acknowledge that others have got farther in some aspect of the game.

There is a simple formula:

less time used for real life = more time spent ingame = more skillgain ^^

// and now I am really out here.

Edited by Balmore

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No one is denying you got further in the game, nor do I care because we were on the same kingdom. Having more BC didn't mean much to me because we had different focuses. Yes you got 45BC off shooting alts, but it's always questionable if that is truly a fair and legit tactic to gain archery and body control. In my opinion, not really, but it's usable. I can't use that as a benchmark to say, "people could easily get 50 because on wild we shot a bunch of noob alts for skill and got it up really high." Yeah, I mean... you /could/ get 50 that way, sure, but again it's not really the way I think the game was intended to be played.

It took people who didn't abuse it on alts a lot longer via crafting to ever hit 50BC though. Hence why I am saying if you weren't abusing some form of alts, or this "arrow shaft" bug, legit crafting + hunting at this point in the game even at playing hours a day, you would still only be around 40-45 at max depending on how much sleeping powder you bought.

Yes some players will get ahead, and I'm fine with acknowledging it. Stalk got 99 stealing, I acknowledge it, but getting it via exploits and unfair game mechanics doesn't make it right nor make other's attitudes of displeasure towards exploiters wrong. The same goes for whatever people were doing here, I think if anyone was tipping around 50 BC then it's a bit odd, and Rolf obviously caught people abusing it. People can obviously tell a right from wrong, Wurm is riddled with bugs but you can easily tell what should and shouldn't be allowed.

If you're sittin there shooting an animal a hundred time with shafts and getting a lot of skill, yeah of course that's a bug. You shouldn't need Rolf to tell you that, sorry.

Edited by Postes

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No one wants to sit there shooting at creatures (or alts - it is irrelevant here because it was the arrow shaft thing that made it wrong, not the target). They did it anyways because the truth is that hunting with bow is boring and not worth it.

You say hunting with a bow is boring... yet you (and yes I know you personally took part in this) chose to sit on deed and shoot thousands of arrow shafts into your horses, day after day. That's not boring? This is just my opinion, but I think going out and hunting is more entertaining than sitting in one place killing horses .50 dmg at a time. You had to know that this was wrong and that you would be punished for it someday.

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I've been grinding Body Control since day 1 and don't have 50 BC.

Its possible, but only with abusing alts for skillgain.

If you people really think shooting yourself (or a friend) on another account, for however much time you spent daily - is right... I actually feel bad for you because no one will legitimize your skill :)

Go hunting, experience the game.

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You say hunting with a bow is boring... yet you (and yes I know you personally took part in this) chose to sit on deed and shoot thousands of arrow shafts into your horses, day after day. That's not boring? This is just my opinion, but I think going out and hunting is more entertaining than sitting in one place killing horses .50 dmg at a time. You had to know that this was wrong and that you would be punished for it someday.

That's the point I just made and despite repeating it you seem to completely miss it: why did I (thank you) and others do this as opposed to going out hunting?

Arrows go all over the place, even at high skill they seem to mysteriously disappear (which according to Rolf is a missing "arrow breaks!" message), most of the time is spent moving (so you're basically busy doing nothing and unable to watch a movie meanwhile, for example) and then the skillgain, it's just awful.

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Exploiting was almost a feature in wurm back on wild. Its sort of nice for it people to be being nerfed, But literally everytime he misses people who did it and nerfs other people too much or nerfs people who didnt do it at all

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Since referals sell for around 5-6silver each...and the server has only been open about 7 months....exageration seems to be the norm for your rant. Please continue.

He could probably give you a screenshot of all the referals and all the COD accepts from Freedom too :)

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Yup. He was buying them at 7s each for a while to get all the sleep bonus he could... Rolf has the wrong dude.

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Whelp, just another way the line between the seasoned and and newer players gets thickened. Now we'll never catch up.

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That's the point I just made and despite repeating it you seem to completely miss it: why did I (thank you) and others do this as opposed to going out hunting?

Arrows go all over the place, even at high skill they seem to mysteriously disappear (which according to Rolf is a missing "arrow breaks!" message), most of the time is spent moving (so you're basically busy doing nothing and unable to watch a movie meanwhile, for example) and then the skillgain, it's just awful.

Well seeing as how the curve on epic is so powerful, you never need 90 archery in the first place, and you're also not a priest, so you can grind body control doing countless other things. If all you wanted to do is grind and watch a movie at the same time, then maybe archery isn't right for you. Deal with gaining skill the legitimate way or do something else, it's fairly simple.

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Been out hunting all day, important to take both types of arrows (crocodiles, bison and hell horses for example need face shots > so hunting arrows) and war arrows for trolls, goblins, spiders et cetera. Annoying how often arrows disappear without a message after hitting the target: you said there's a missing message here, I feel if whatever the reason is these arrows "break" wouldn't be there, it'd be better. The usual "arrow breaks" is enough. So instead of adding this message please conside removing this specific kind of breaking.

I would like to request for "arrow glances off" to:

1) End up on the ground at first

2) Then end up on the corpse if the creature dies

I feel like short bows are terrible for this (used to hitch animals to a large cart, so they wouldn't run towards me). Can't queue shooting actions, for example, which makes it a tedious task. The reason you can't queue is because with short bows the enemy is within attacking range so you're in combat mode while shooting. So you get hurt and can't queue actions making short bow an annoying grind. Necessary though, since often the creature walks towards you when using a long bow.

I think accuracy with a long bow sucks at greater ranges, making it rather useless to use any of the "aim at ___" options. These are the two options:

1) Use "shoot" with 99% accuracy, kill your target with 10 shots (random number).

2) Aim at the ___, hit 50% of the arrows, kill your target with 5 shots + 5 random arrows are somewhere hidden in the grass.

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There's 0 reason you should get any skill boost from shooting an enemy, or shield training on an enemy. That's a poor mechanic that screamed to be abused, and people did just that. You can't dangle meat in front of a lion then be surprised when he takes it.

No, you have it backwards. There is no reason why you should not gain skills when sparring with villagers. Since we have complete healing abilities in Wurm with no permanent maimings possible, I see no reason why one villager couldn't train shield skill and another train archery, one shooter, one blocker, or both spar in melee.

This is the biggest reason I do not play on Epic is because of this horribly broken fakeness in the combat training/skillgain system, which inevitibly results in threads like this.

Unfortunately, this is another place where Rolf has either never bothered to think through the ramifications of the mechanic, or he's once again been advised by trolls who chuckle as they think fondly about how they have fooled Rolf into doing something incredibly stupid for years, and he's never figured it out yet.

There is absolutely no credible reason whatsoever why villagers should not be able to train against one another and gain skill. None. Zero. Nada. Try to name one and I will shoot it down in flames with no possible exceptions. Period.

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But farmerbob! The exploits that are possible with that! lul

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But farmerbob! The exploits that are possible with that! lul

I know - it would be shameful if everyone were able to train fight skill with their friends and villagemates, rather than hunting wolves, bears, and spiders.

I mean, what would these poor forumites do if they were not able to accuse each other of violating rules that make no sense?

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I know - it would be shameful if everyone were able to train fight skill with their friends and villagemates, rather than hunting wolves, bears, and spiders.

I mean, what would these poor forumites do if they were not able to accuse each other of violating rules that make no sense?

They would... My god, i feel sick just thinking about it... Have Fun! There i said it! I'm going to Hell now...

Edited by ReaverKane
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