Even More Oil Denerfing

[Hussars 511]

Once we're able to put tar oil into oil barrels I don't believe we'll need any more changes, especially at the rate tar can be processed.

Was there an announcement on this? Reference(s)?

Or are you saying if we are able to?

Just making sure I didn't miss something from Rolf/the Dev Team...

[Kraljtatov 34]

Sorry, if we're able to that is. That's the only change that's really needed IMO.

[ReaverKane 363]

Sorry, if we're able to that is. That's the only change that's really needed IMO.

True. Thats the biggest change that is needed to correct this. atm.

Although it would be nice if some mechanisms for off-deed lamps were added in the future.

[Hussars 511]

Sorry, if we're able to that is. That's the only change that's really needed IMO.

Thanks for clarifying... could see the rumor mill chomping at the bit on that one...and wanted to make sure I actually hadn't missed something related to this.

[Kraljtatov 34]

True. Thats the biggest change that is needed to correct this. atm.

Although it would be nice if some mechanisms for off-deed lamps were added in the future.

I'm not sure what ideas you had for these mechanisms, but one of the major reasons I see that off-deed lamps don't have them is simply because they're not on paid land, and also because of this it would be hard if not impossible to code anything to make it easier. Maybe more ways to go about doing it, but not easier.

[Hussars 511]

I'm not sure what ideas you had for these mechanisms, but one of the major reasons I see that off-deed lamps don't have them is simply because they're not on paid land, and also because of this it would be hard if not impossible to code anything to make it easier. Maybe more ways to go about doing it, but not easier.

How about a "paid for" item, like the magic chest but specifically for oil and only oil (or oil and tar if the on-deed version gets the option)... basically make a version of the item that requires silver only to purchase which provides a smaller capacity oil tub which has a radius for lamps it maintains up to a set number.. you can then have a larger version that has an increased radius or number of lamps.

The owner still has to add oil to it, and it provides a limited version of the same functionality for off-deed lamps, for a fee. Just like the chests, it will only impact the users who want the functionality without the deed.

[Kraljtatov 34]

How about a "paid for" item, like the magic chest but specifically for oil and only oil (or oil and tar if the on-deed version gets the option)... basically make a version of the item that requires silver only to purchase which provides a smaller capacity oil tub which has a radius for lamps it maintains up to a set number.. you can then have a larger version that has an increased radius or number of lamps.

The owner still has to add oil to it, and it provides a limited version of the same functionality for off-deed lamps, for a fee. Just like the chests, it will only impact the users who want the functionality without the deed.

Not a bad idea. Will they decay like magic chests also?

[Hussars 511]

That would be the intent.

Since it would be a "for silver" item, full normal decay would require either the item be less expensive, which opens the door to exploit/abuse and more readily invalidates the changes since silver is really easy to earn in-game if you try. Or decay rate would require increased item performance which could be more cost effective than the non-paid item, again invalidating the on-deed benefit/changes... If the item's time in world is a concern, make them able to be placed outside only so they do not gain additional decay resist from building bonuses or mines.

As a side note, I tend to suggest new items based on existing items in-game to keep them in-line for easier balance evaluation and inclusion consideration.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Hussars

[Tinkerer 107]

Sorry, if we're able to that is. That's the only change that's really needed IMO.

The only problem with that, (if it is the only change) is that it once again nullifies olive oil. Tar is an inexhaustible, all-year-round, quick-to-obtain resource and the QL is simply based on digging (an easy skill to get a high level). Even if the refining process adds a bit of complication, it's still a lot easier than pressing olives a few at a time.

If tar oil and the other products along with that, and the 'refinery item' (already more than a simple change) are added there also needs to be added benefit or additional uses for olive oil. Which was part of the intent with the lamp nerf in the first place.

Olives are now plentiful, yield more and produce more so producing enough oil isn't really an issue. For most its the hassle of lighting all the off-deed lamps.

[Kraljtatov 34]

Rolf made it sound like he would change tar at some point anyway, so I'm just speculating. Olive oil could be coded to burn longer and/or brighter to compensate for the low availability.

As for off-deed lamps I support Hussars' idea of a trader item so that the auto-fill feature for deeds isn't useless.

[Tinkerer 107]

Indeed, some kind of trader item sounds like a decent idea - though I'd wonder about the usefulness of something 'radius-based' as I think most use of it would be for predominantly straight stretches (eg canals) Therefore the majority of the area covered by 'radius' would not be wanted/necessary. I liken it somewhat to deeding when you could only set one value for 'size' rather than the now slightly better version of 'E-W and N-S'

What might work better is some kind of tag - only usable by deed owners. Put the 'tag' on the off-deed lamp to mark it as an external one for the guards to keep tabs on - using the oil from your deeds tub to refill it. It then functions as your deed lamps do. Tags could be sold by a trader separately or in batches of 10 or something.

[Protunia 735]

I have a few olive trees planted behind some maples and ended up with 10 kg+ of olive oil after harvesting and making oil with crappy skill and a crappy tool. This is fixed more than enough and should not be addressed again and off deed lamps should not refill period. If a player wants to plant 100's of lamps off deed then they should take care of them or not plant so many lamps.

[ReaverKane 363]

Well mate, thanks for your opinion, although most of the people here disagree with that.

Also, excuse me, but i tend to dismiss people who say stuff like "Should be X, period." or "Its like that, because." as arrogant know it alls, not that i'm saying you're arrogant, but next time, maybe instead of period, explain your opinion with some valid arguments, will make your post look better.

[Protunia 735]

Well mate, thanks for your opinion, although most of the people here disagree with that.

Also, excuse me, but i tend to dismiss people who say stuff like "Should be X, period." or "Its like that, because." as arrogant know it alls, not that i'm saying you're arrogant, but next time, maybe instead of period, explain your opinion with some valid arguments, will make your post look better.

You/We don't need forever lamps off deed at all...there is that better princess???

Not saying you're a princess/female/pansy/etc, just my way of not saying anything completely off the wall and crazy and replying in a nice way instead of being arrogant like the people you seem to hate and try to direct what they should say or not say and how they should say it to whom. Other than that its all good Sweety.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Protunia

[picommander 13]

Update from a former post: This is the first day with actual oil consumption from my tub.

Already thought it wouldn't work for me...

[Kadore 926]

You/We don't need forever lamps off deed at all...there is that better princess???

Not saying you're a princess/female/pansy/etc, just my way of not saying anything completely off the wall and crazy and replying in a nice way instead of being arrogant like the people you seem to hate and try to direct what they should say or not say and how they should say it to whom. Other than that its all good Sweety.

Did Joanavon buy your account Protunia, you both sound so similar now it's frightening, I much preferred the -1.

OT: your opinion is no different than anyone elses, its no secret your into Wurm being as expensive and painfully slow as humanly possible, not everyone shares that opinion.

[haslador 2]

fact is he has not been really putting out there updates most of the players want just a select few.

and the reason you need guards to fill them not a merchant or trader is simple, guards cost us monthly and many dont use them.

Rolf mind very simple like any other person who owns a big game, get ideas only from them who been around a while ignore the forms and wurm in any thing he can to squeeze out more money.

He clearly dont care if players quit since they been quitting for a long time due to the gms alone and dont bother trying to argue the fact with me ive had 5 friends quit cause of them and im also am 5 out of 6 of my friends quitting for the same reason can not be due to them all just being cry baby's.

For a very long time now hes promised us a few updates he never did and im yet to see a update that would help most players for example. Not having to travel 2 hours in wurm on a 5 speed horse just to add a friend and that is just one example of a update players would want that would help instead of the crap ive seen come out.

[picommander 13]

Please don't use the term 'guard' when you actually mean 'spirits', this can be quite confusing sometimes. Guards don't have a monthly fee.

And btw, just because players want something doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing (related to your last statement).

Easy adding of friends could open the door for easy spamming for instance.

[ReaverKane 363]

You/We don't need forever lamps off deed at all...there is that better princess???

Not saying you're a princess/female/pansy/etc, just my way of not saying anything completely off the wall and crazy and replying in a nice way instead of being arrogant like the people you seem to hate and try to direct what they should say or not say and how they should say it to whom. Other than that its all good Sweety.

"At all", and "period" have the exact same connotation. And if me being polite has offended you, i think i'll keep offending you.

What i asked of you was to back your statement with facts, which you didn't and instead of backing your own argument you chose to insult me. The last ditch resource of the stupid. So please keep on insulting everyone that disagrees with you, only assures us of how right we are.

The fact that you have the time to play with your lamps doesn't mean we should be forced to.

Please don't use the term 'guard' when you actually mean 'spirits', this can be quite confusing sometimes. Guards don't have a monthly fee.

And btw, just because players want something doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing (related to your last statement).

Easy adding of friends could open the door for easy spamming for instance.

The term people have used is Deed Guards aka Spirit Templars, Tower Guards are not there to guard deeds, although with correct placement they can work like that. Which also brings me to another question. I've read people asking so that ower guards would "also" fill the lamps (when it was thought a Spirit Templar was required), well, thats a bit selfish... And somewhat dumb, not trying to insult anyone, let me explain...

Guard towers have a range (the area where you can call guards) of around 20-30 tiles (tested this myself) and yet they can only be placed at 50 tiles away from each other, this means two things:

1- If your neighbor has a tower guard, you probably won't be able to place one at will.

2- If you have a really large deed (my farm is an example) you MAY be able to place 2 towers in it, but still there will be a blank spot in the middle (where the token is no less) that won't be covered by the towers range.

So yeah, although it would be nice, its impractical and won't help many people.

Hopefully not requiring Spirit Templars is intended, and this whole discussion is pointless.

[Protunia 735]

Listen here Bub, Facts are this I have already stated why I think this change is good enough. Now if you really want to draw everyone you can into your arguing with the trolling fine that is your choice.

Right now you get MANY olives from harvesting as well as MUCH LONGER burning times for lamps this results in way more fuel than you will ever need unless you choose to plant more lamps then you can care for.

That is a choice you make and the game should not cater to someone simply because they over extend their own resources.

Thank you for playing.

[picommander 13]

The term people have used is Deed Guards aka Spirit Templars, Tower Guards are not there to guard deeds, although with correct placement they can work like that.

So "People are used to" is reason enough to be never corrected in your book? What's wrong with stick to in-game terms instead?

This is nothing more than just another unnecessary stumble stone for new players, think about it...

[Hussars 511]

While I remain on the fence about the change in general, I do have a quick question for those saying that this change is needed or adds more realism/more value to olive oil, doesn't this new feature, on some level, counter all of these points?

(Taken from the City Hall Thread)
/>http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/63957-turning-up-the-steam-heat/

For the people who wonder about karma:

The Light up ones mean filling and lighting up lanterns in the radius I think.

Summon corpse is apparently bringing back your corpse if it hasn't been looted yet

Town Portal is like a twig back home, but like twigs it can't be used when there's an enemy in local

[Tinkerer 107]

Heh, well, I've found one fountain - drinking from it gave me 10 karma which seems to last a few days, but since then, the fountain hasn't refilled. Guessing its pretty darned hard to get up to 500 to light some lamps using it.

No idea how else karma is gained mind you....

[Hussars 511]

Yeah.. that is my fear that it will be easy to gain the Karma points.. it seems there are a few karma items, like the fountains, crystal/salt (which has been granted by prayer as well as mining).. so depending on drop rates/respawn/refill timers, it might become a larger issue... but I reposted the comment more to the point that it seems to, for lack of a better term, invalidate the idea that the change was made with the major intent to add realism or increase the value of olives/oil.

I'm also interested in the appearance that some of the people who have stated they agreed with this change for it adding realism/value to olive oil, are not commenting on the Karma thread for the exact opposite reasons...

Again, I'm not really for or against the change.. it is simply a change in the game I play.. but since I don't like feeling as if I'm expected to play to anyone else's style (which is what this feels like to me, whether it actually is or not), I'll exercise my "right" to not worry about it and find other things to do in-game. I'll continue to do this until there is nothing left for me to do which allows me the freedom to do it as I want, or until something I consider game breaking occurs.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Hussars

[Keldun 335]

The Light up ones mean filling and lighting up lanterns in the radius I think.

That's the thing: one guy sais "I think" and everyone repeats "he claimed"

Afaik, no one got enough Karma to check and Rolf never tells anyway.

It could just as well summon light tokens in the area, or create a light aura.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Keldun