Circumvening The Nerf

[Rolf 3,563]

As expected there are worries that it will become too much of a chore to keep lamps filled with oil or tar. Now, tar isn’t _really_ supposed to be used in lamps but it will still be possible to use of course since it would be too much of a nerf to remove that. Olive oil finally has the use and value it was supposed to from the very beginning.

I’ve added the possibility to build an “oil barrel” which will hold huge amounts of olive oil. If you keep a barrel on deed the guards will use the oil within to fill your street lamps. Guards can only deal with olive oil though so you can’t fill it with tar. 

I also added the possibility to build armour stand and bow rack. The models are lacking for those as well but they will arrive eventually.

I just had to restart the Epic servers for another reason so they received this update and can try it out a bit before the other servers which will be restarted tomorrow.

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[York 16]

I like this, forever lit lamps were nice but unrealistic, now with a small amount of effort its possible to set up an automatic lamp filler via the guard. Great way to approach the situation

Looking forward to the new armour and bow racks.

(Ps: Celebration map dump? ^^)

[riceri 66]

This is a good solution, still need work but you don't have to do it so often.

[Wraithglow 787]

I think it's really awesome that rolf responded so quickly with an alternative to a total nerf. I just hope that the olive oil doesn't decay in that barrel...

Edit: having seen thorgot's calculations i've changed my mind. There is no way I can sustain the harvest rate required to keep my deed lit. Look's like i'll be playing in the dark

Edited June 20, 2012 by Wraithglow

[Ecrir 887]

small question for Freedom deeds, do you need a guard for this barrel to work, or will it work without a guard just as how wall and lamp maintenance works without guards?

[validate 598]

i wasn't happy reading this at first. but if guards will auto fill from a oil barrel. i'm cool with that. cost us 1s per month per guard. i have a guard on most my deeds. but now to harvest olive oil ;-( glad i have huge tree farm ;-)

[Tekari 133]

Sry but... small amount of effort? If this "patch" isn't soon followed by a drastic increase of yield when harvesting olive trees I prophesy extreme olive oil shortage, dark deeds and even darker wilderness trails.

And even if the yield of olives is increased I bet you can count on it that the amount of oil you can produce with one action will stay the same thus requiring a lot more work.

Rolf, we love your game and the effort being put into it, especially in the last months but honestly... change isn't always good.

[Pingpong 1,070]

Could we get a "tar bin/box" as well? Otherwise it sounds like the olive oil merchants got ahold of Rolf's ear :\

[Ayes 3,715]

Rolf, I will point out the obvious flaws in your proposed lessing of the "chore" by "circumvening the nerf", as you put it.

The main apparent one is that now people with deeds *must* use *oilve oil* placed in a constructed barrel somewhere on deed to prevent their on deed lamps from running out of fuel. Any other measures used to fuel on deed lamps will result in them running out of fuel on a "frequent" (time interval?) basis. Off deed lamps will run out of fuel on this "frequent" (time interval?) basis which can not be avoided nor lessened.

Therefore, people can be "circumvening the nerf" on this limited basis and its remaining negative effects remain in full force in all other aspects. I find your solution to be of little consulation and helpfulness, only resulting in more work for deed owners who now *must* go through the process of harvesting and producing oilve oil if they wish to prevent their on deed lamps from running out of oil, thus blinking out and having no effect.

Deed perimiters and off deed lamps placed by players? Tough luck. Bad change, revert it and make off deed lamps turn on and off automatically as well by adding something positive to the change which was not a function of lamps previously. This would be the positive contribution to the game and not the "circumvening" you propose here.

Under your proposed "circumvening the nerf" solution, my response will be to let all my lamps on various deeds, along roadside houses built for player rest stops and refuges, and on deed perimiters, to simply run out of fuel and not replenish and relight them. Any positive effects that they previously had on enhancing the ambiance of the game and positive player responses will no longer be in effect. This is not a threat in any way, simply a statement of my response, as I will not be bothered with taking the time to refill and relight all these street lamps on some newly introduced "frequent" interval. There you have it.

=Ayes=

Edited June 20, 2012 by Ayes

[Uberknot 327]

Rolf, I will point out the obvious flaws in your proposed lessing of the "chore" by "circumvening the nerf", as you put it.

The main apparent one is that now people with deeds *must* use *oilve oil* placed in a constructed barrel somewhere on deed to prevent their on deed lamps from running out of fuel. Any other measures used to fuel on deed lamps will result in them running out of fuel on a "frequent" (time interval?) basis. Off deed lamps will run out of fuel on this "frequent" (time interval?) basis which can not be avoided nor lessened.

Therefore, people can be "circumvening the nerf" on this limited basis and its remaining negative effects remain in full force in all other aspects. I find your solution to be of little consulation and helpfulness, only resulting in more work for deed owners who now *must* go through the process of harvesting and producing oilve oil if they wish to prevent their on deed lamps from running out of oil, thus blinking out and having no effect.

Deed perimiters and off deed lamps placed by players? Tough luck. Bad change, revert it and make off deed lamps turn on and off automatically as well by adding something positive to the change which was not a function of lamps previously. This would be the positive contribution to the game and not the "circumvening" you propose here.

=Ayes=

Give me a break.....Perk for deed owners is a good thing. As far as your off deed lamps? snuff em when you don't need em.

I mean really so you have to fill a lamp once in awhile.....such a chore. You were given options to use Lamps its your choice to let them run out or not. And yes Realistic is much better than lamps that stay on forever.

[Tekari 133]

Give me a break.....Perk for deed owners is a good thing. As far as your off deed lamps? snuff em when you don't need em.

I mean really so you have to fill a lamp once in awhile.....such a chore. You were given options to use Lamps its your choice to let them run out or not. And yes Realistic is much better than lamps that stay on forever.

I really hope that realistic in turn means harvesting more than one measly olive from a whole tree.

[Uberknot 327]

I really hope that realistic in turn means harvesting more than one measly olive from a whole tree.

That would work better than forever lamps.

[Oracle 318]

Process raw tar.

Raw tar needs processing in a " Tar Processing unit " ( new ) to be of any use. Tar processing unit ( similar to a forge but smaller and without a chimney, needs a couldron in construction ) is fueled by burning 20kg wood for cooking the raw tar into the following products

From each 1kg of tar processed you get .50 tar pitch ( for ship building ), .25 carbon black oxide ( ingrediant for making ink and black paint/dye ), and .25 tar oil ( for using as lamp oil and general oil paint base. This tar oil will replace water, and water based colors will only be used as a dye for wood, leather and cloth items ).

Also, mixing any dye on a 1 for 1 basis with clay makes a glaze that can be applied to clay items and fired resulting in a colored pottery item.

[Domhnall 67]

I like this, forever lit lamps were nice but unrealistic, now with a small amount of effort its possible to set up an automatic lamp filler via the guard. Great way to approach the situation

Looking forward to the new armour and bow racks.

(Ps: Celebration map dump? ^^)

Forever lamps were unrealistic but A GHOST GOING AROUND FILLING YOUR LAMPS UP IS TOTALLY REAL!!!

Okay, so we have huge barrels to hold the absolutely massive quantities of olive oil we'll be getting each harvest from that one olive per tree. Seriously? Will these barrels decay? Will the oil inside them still decay?

[KaiH 1,126]

*Wonders how to link Oracles idea to the suggestion board without splitting it from the thread and still keep context...*

tl;dr version: i like

[GravityDog 41]

Forever lamps were unrealistic but A GHOST GOING AROUND FILLING YOUR LAMPS UP IS TOTALLY REAL!!!

Okay, so we have huge barrels to hold the absolutely massive quantities of olive oil we'll be getting each harvest from that one olive per tree. Seriously? Will these barrels decay? Will the oil inside them still decay?

I think it is 1 "bunch" of olives per tree. like nails.

[Busted 289]

Process raw tar.

Raw tar needs processing in a " Tar Processing unit " ( new ) to be of any use. Tar processing unit ( similar to a forge but smaller and without a chimney, needs a couldron in construction ) is fueled by burning 20kg wood for cooking the raw tar into the following products

From each 1kg of tar processed you get .50 tar pitch ( for ship building ), .25 carbon black oxide ( ingrediant for making ink and black paint/dye ), and .25 tar oil ( for using as lamp oil and general oil paint base. This tar oil will replace water, and water based colors will only be used as a dye for wood, leather and cloth items ).

This I like. But also please, let off deed lamps switch on and off the same as deeded lamps. I don't mind having to refill them every few days but nobody likes to see perma lit lamps all over the place. While we're at it, if people want to see less lamps in general they need to be brighter and cast further with high end lamps (70+ql). It should be possible to saturate an area with light without needing twenty lamps - especially considering how much trouble Wurm lighting currently has with more than a handful of light sources in close proximity.

[Cerber 103]

Will the oil inside them still decay?

currently oil has a very low decay rate

i have a huge tub in a house on deed, the oil inside took 2 decay hits in well over 6 months and it's only 15ql

[Wiro 370]

Forever lamps were unrealistic but A GHOST GOING AROUND FILLING YOUR LAMPS UP IS TOTALLY REAL!!!

Completely irrelevant. You're comparing two different kinds of realism.

[Domhnall 67]

I think it is 1 "bunch" of olives per tree. like nails.

Doesn't matter if it's one olive or 1 bunch of olives, it's one "unit" total. The thing is, when harvesting a tree, this 1 "unit" is all you can harvest per season, regardless of your skill level in gardening, forestry or farming. It should at least work like crops where higher skill = more yield.

[Pingpong 1,070]

Completely irrelevant. You're comparing two different kinds of realism.

And that's why the issue is there's NO consistency, realism is what ever Rolf feels like this week. I love wurm, but this inconsistency is not helping the "fun/playablity" factor.

[Uberknot 327]

Doesn't matter if it's one olive or 1 bunch of olives, it's one "unit" total. The thing is, when harvesting a tree, this 1 "unit" is all you can harvest per season, regardless of your skill level in gardening, forestry or farming. It should at least work like crops where higher skill = more yield.

I agree with this you should get more yield at higher skill levels maybe not as much as farming does but something.

[Keldun 335]

Wow Rolf, I'm impressed, you recognized an unfavourable patch beforehand, promised to deal with it and provided a solution to it, that is exactly the way it should be.

@others, throwing a tantrum, because you just lost your god mode cheat has never done anything, and it doesn't look pretty intelligent either.

And constantly demanding the revert of patches that are good in themselves, just because they expose other problems, doesn't advance the game any.

The way to go, is to do more stuff to handle the new issues. in that reagrd, some suggestions:

- Make it so that tower guards can handle oil barrels as well.

- Make it so we can harvest a treefull of fruit, not a handfull. Several actions on one tree would be a good way to do this.

- Make a "candle box" so that the guards can resupply the candelabras. (btw, those never were perma lights, even on deed)

- If you want to remove the Tar, make it so that it can be used only in iron torches, but that all finer lamps need olive or tar oil.

The Tar prosessing that Oracle suggested is a nice idea. It doesn't need an extra structure though, any Cauldron in a fire should do.

Forever lamps were unrealistic but A GHOST GOING AROUND FILLING YOUR LAMPS UP IS TOTALLY REAL!!!

Lol, I just love it when people confuse it the meanings of realistic and real to justify their arguments. People do this all the time on this forum.

Real means that it actually exists in our world now. Realistic means it could be possible coforming on the rules of physics. SciFi is mostly realistic. In a fantasy setting that realistic means it conforms to the rules of physics and magic.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Keldun

[Schiann 994]

Let's remove decay prevention on deeds, as well. After all, how are the structures magically being kept in repair? The invisible groundskeepers don't have a barrel of planks or shards to take materials from. Not very realistic.

Stop adding pointless complexity that does nothing but add chore.

[Uberknot 327]

Lol, I just love it when people confuse it the meanings of realistic and real to justify their arguments. People do this all the time on this forum.

Real means that it actually exists in our world now. Realistic means it could be possible coforming on the rules of physics. SciFi is mostly realistic. In a fantasy setting that realistic means it conforms to the rules of physics and magic.

here ya go.

realistic

[ree-uh-lis-tik]   Example Sentences

interested in, concerned with, or based on what is real orpractical: a realistic estimate of costs; a realistic planner.

2.

pertaining to, characterized by, or given to therepresentation in literature or art of things as they reallyare: a realistic novel.

re·al·is·tic

   [ree-uh-lis-tik] art of things as they reallyare: a realistic novel.

3.

resembling or simulating real life: a duck hunter skilled atmaking realistic decoys.

4.

Philosophy . of or pertaining to realists or realism.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Uberknot