Upcoming Changes To Diseases You May Want To Act Upon

[Rolf 3,563]

• 
  Bugs with animal disease allowing for congestion were fixed: Creatures on enchanted tiles won't be safe from disease and keeping creatures well fed won't automatically prevent them from being affected any longer. Grazers will now strive for enchanted grass, but there is also a small chance now that it may disappear when grazed upon (a lot smaller than packing).
  

[Fitzgerald 6]

Grazers will now strive for enchanted grass, but there is also a small chance now that it may disappear when grazed upon (a lot smaller than packing).

Giving Enchanted Grass a economy boost too.

[Kamikazifly 70]

ya, um... selling my services to gleefully clean your infected wound... lol. ;D

Unless the disease kills the horse... it wont bother me much.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Kamikazifly

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

As long as it's less than one tile per day for a decent sized ranch so it can be replaced faster than it decays, I don't think that will be an issue. Maybe consider making groomed animals eat less, so as not to punish people who actually look after their animals?

[MrGARY 12,421]

Grazers will now strive for enchanted grass, but there is also a small chance now that it may disappear when grazed upon (a lot smaller than packing).

The f? Just nerf a semi-hard to get meditating ability that you can only use once a day? Screw the economy, this is a dumb idea.

[Fitzgerald 6]

The f? Just nerf a semi-hard to get meditating ability that you can only use once a day? Screw the economy, this is a dumb idea.

The issue is, a player can quit the game, with a patch of "Never Die" grass, and the horse will only die from old age, unless cared for. This is to adjust the Mob Balance. Not the Economy.

Edit: Typo

Edited May 24, 2012 by Fitzgerald

[Joanavon 553]

So if i'm understanding this correctly there is a small chance that animals grazing upon enchanted grass will destroy the grass? or cause the animal to disappear? If it destroys the grass rarely that seems fair.

Does anything prevent or remove disease now or? does disease still only appear in congested areas or?

[MrGARY 12,421]

The issue is, a player can quit the game, with a patch of "Never Die" grass, and the horse will only die from old age, unless cared for. This is to adjust the Mob Balance. Not the Economy.

Edit: Typo

So nerf every active player in the game because of a few people that may quit and keep horses on their shiny grass? That makes perfect sense huh... I didn't know there were hundreds upon hundreds of horses abandoned on enchanted grass all over the place.

[Budda 2,675]

The f? Just nerf a semi-hard to get meditating ability that you can only use once a day? Screw the economy, this is a dumb idea.

I've got two decent sized pens all completely enchanted grass, and I haven't had to use my enchant ability for weeks now. I have no problem with this change if the change from enchanted>dirt is a much smaller chance as the OP suggests. Going out every few days to re-enchant a tile isn't really a bother, especially if it culls large untended pens of passive mobs so we can finally get some bison on deli.

[Joanavon 553]

So nerf every active player in the game because of a few people that may quit and keep horses on their shiny grass? That makes perfect sense huh... I didn't know there were hundreds upon hundreds of horses abandoned on enchanted grass all over the place.

Do you have a better idea for dealing with this issue so that non aggro mobs such as horses and bison and deer still spawn on the more developed islands and aren't all locked up in self contained maintenance free pens?

[Redd 4,281]

This is a horrible idea - you're making animal breeders life hell.

It's beyond me why Rolf makes what are brilliant features into rubbish ones.

Do not add this please.

[Fitzgerald 6]

So nerf every active player in the game because of a few people that may quit and keep horses on their shiny grass? That makes perfect sense huh... I didn't know there were hundreds upon hundreds of horses abandoned on enchanted grass all over the place.

You act as if there are more active players, than inactive. If you believe this, you're wrong. On Freedom, you cannot go anywhere without seeing a deed, 95% of the time it is abandonded with horses. If this update kills them off, and allows for mobs such as Chickens, Bison, and Wild Horses to spawn. I rather pay for another. Also, as Budda said, If Rolf truly means less chance than trampling grass/crops, it would only effect those after about a week. If it's that big of a deal for you, move from enchanted grass and grow a crop there?

[Joanavon 553]

This is a horrible idea - you're making animal breeders life hell.

It's beyond me why Rolf makes what are brilliant features into rubbish ones.

Do not add this please.

Well I suppose if you had a dozens upon dozens of animals confined in a small space and were relying upon enchanted grass to make the completely work free then having to keep an eye on the grass or dealing with disease in a tightly packed pen would be some work....versus none before with enchanted grass.... Hellish!

[MrGARY 12,421]

Sounds like a freedom issue then. I don't have trouble finding wild spawns on Chaos or Epic. How about making this a freedom only change then >.>

[Kamikazifly 70]

if i could put all my horses in a bsb or noah's ark, i would. But i wont kill them cause i dont want to find more and start over. I became busy with other things, got them up to 3 speed... plan to finish someday. 40 horses spread out among 18 pens on 12x12 tiles.

Just sayin'

Edited May 24, 2012 by Kamikazifly

[Fitzgerald 6]

Sounds like a freedom issue then. I don't have trouble finding wild spawns on Chaos or Epic. How about making this a freedom only change then >.>

I never had a problem on Chaos or Epic either, but Freedom has little to no wild-life asides from Aggros.

[Joanavon 553]

It's not an issue yet on serenity either as neither epic nor chaos is developed enough or populated enough yet for it to be of issue. But it's a long standing one on freedom

^{(even though i don't play there much freedom does represent 5/6 or more of Wurm)} That deserves a solution that both allows horse breeding as an active pursuit while at the same time allowing a certain amount of wild spawns for new players as well as for people looking to replace or get into new animal breeding types.

[Fitzgerald 6]

It's not so much just the horses, it's the fact that we as freedom players would love to see Wild Life.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Fitzgerald

[Joanavon 553]

When i lived on indi for a few months other then a few stray deer and a couple boars some dogs and a few dead pigs. I just didn't see any wild life that wasn't trying to kill me out and about in the forests. No horses, no cows, no unicorns, no dogs, no live pigs, nothing. But i did see lots of all of those creatures living on enchanted pens in deeds next to me who i never saw anyone at for months on end.

[Fitzgerald 6]

When i lived on indi for a few months other then a few stray deer and a couple boars some dogs and a few dead pigs. I just didn't see any wild life that wasn't trying to kill me out and about in the forests. No horses, no cows, no unicorns, no dogs, no live pigs, nothing. But i did see lots of all of those creatures living on enchanted pens in deeds next to me who i never saw anyone at for months on end.

I'm not sure if Unicorns are considered to be Wild Life, as they spawn often. There's actually an area on Exodus (The Goblin Peninsula) where Unicorns are abundant, however; No horses, Pigs, or Cows. Perhaps a Boar every once in a while.

[Joanavon 553]

Well unicorns arn't very useful livestock that's for sure. not like horses, cows, deer and others

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

while I understand that something has to be done about the overboarding number of not-aggressive animals I'm not sure if this is the way to go. Controlling the numbers with the disease & starving mechanisms is a way, but both can be circumvented quite easy, and tightening the mechanisms might have new negative aspects.

In my humble opinion it should be evaluated how the recent changes to Animal Husbandry, Breeding and Fighting have worked, and if not exactly these have even added to the numbers of horses. Let's have a look:

• Animal husbandry is very important now, to breed decent horses the breeder should have at least the first AH title (50 skill). The change of aggros attacking ridden horses has added the requirement of "tough bugger", 60 skill now for 5 speed traits + bugger.
  Reaching 60 AH means grooming horses for very, very long - and what do we need to reach such high skill levels? Yes, we need tons of horses to groom ...
  .
  
• Breeding, with decent AH, was quite predictable for a time (after the first trait heritage change), but the breeding results have become much more random now (my impression): Same traited parents had a good probability to produce a same traited foal for a while, today this nearly never happens anymore.
  Additionally, we have to keep separate blood lines now due to the inbreeding threat.
  
  Result: To breed horses for selling, or to cater the needs of a deed we need quite some more pairs of breeding horses now, and quite some more breeding attempts. Now add the recent unicorn abundance that has made horses as a source of leather quite obsolete ...
  (Comment: We have killed at least 200 unicorns during the recent weeks, alone in the relatively small area surrounding our deeds - they are everywhere, it seems for everyone you cull 3 new ones are spawning ... Hope this madness comes to an end soon!)
  .
  
• An ill minded troll kills your horse with about 3 hits now. Even spiders and scorps can do this, in unfortunate cases.
  This means that any of our hunting avatars now has at least 2 fully geared riding horses, and one or two reserve horses. When the nasty troll kills your horse, you'll want to have a well geared replacement for the corpse run ...
  Again - even more horses required.
  .
  
• Oh, and every other time a troll can come strolling by, smashing your horse pens walls for the lulz and releasing them to the wilderness, for a happy running all over the server - they are running fast and far now, if in the mood ...
  So having your horses distributed to several pens is a must have now, to minimize the danger to loose all of your stock at once - and, for sure, more pens will mean more horses in them, inevitably. As soon as there's enough room, you'll think twice before culling ...
  

I think having a look at these, in my opinion, partially suboptimal changes that actually require us to have ways more horses then ever before would be beneficial. As long as people need to have a certain amount of horses to play the game in the way they desire they will keep these numbers, and they'll always find ways to do so.

So, shouldn't be the question: What can be done to reduce the numbers of horses needed to play the game?

(tl;dr: Ages ago we did well with quite few horses. They lived for long, they didn't get eaten by random critters, they didn't get stolen by griefing NPC's, replacing them when they grew old was a lottery but possible.

Today we have by far more. We have some that are actually used + a suitable reserve, we have some different blood lines of breeding pairs to ensure replenishment, we have quite some that are basically a walking leather reserve, or gifts for ppl that have lost theirs.

But in the end, after all these changes, we have a multiple of what we had before ...)

I think looking at the problem from this side would be more beneficial than imposing new nerfs upon the players. This will not make them happy, nobody loves to get "robbed" of something it used to have. And the probability that another hot fix here and another nerf there will solve the problem might be low.

We have a problem with the numbers of not-aggro animals as well as with the spawning mechanics, and it should be addressed, I agree. But I'd prefer solutions aiming for a long term improvement!

For the moment, I'd propose:

1. Set the spawning of unicorns to zero for a while, and reduce the deer spawn. The unicorn invasion has to find its end finally, we all are tired of it. And leather should become more rare again, so that there's an incentive to cull surplus horses again.
   .
   
2. Create some new use for leather to smelt down the wast supplies that have been collected during the recent weeks of "Unicornageddon". Maybe something within the reed/papyrus thingie in development? Small notes made from papyrus, but you'd need something crafted of leather to bind it to a book?
   .
   
3. Take some time, and find the bugs in the spawning mechanisms. Something is wrong, obviously. We don't have the usual mixed spawns anymore, we have uncontrolled "spawns of the week" now. Some critters in abundance, others not spawning at all, and next week a full change - this cannot be it.
   .
   
4. And when all this is done as a quick fix for the worst symptoms, and when you're not bothered with other problems for a while, revamp the whole AH/ Breeding thing regarding the problems I mentioned above. Reduce the need to have huge numbers of horses, and find a suitable way to control these numbers.
   

Thx for reading this wall of text, hope I could provide some ideas. For sure this is my opinion, and I'm aware that there might be dubious conclusions. Discuss!

And have a god time!

[Redd 4,281]

Gotta agree with xandria here.

The guards attacking horses and most annoyingly animals attacking horses (personally I've lost over 10 perfect trained horses to this) has caused players to breed lots and lots of horses purely because we need more!

Reduce the reason to keep more horses rather then making it harder to keep more horses.

Personally this will just make my life harder and but will continue I breed my horses along with a lot of others.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Maybe you should reevaluate your usage of horses? You don't need to feel "forced" to breed so much if you stop taking them for granted. Like, maybe hunting on foot isn't so bad, y'know? Everybody did it in the past. Or you could, you know, be content with using so-so quality horses for dangerous situations?

Edited May 24, 2012 by EliasTheCrimson

[Asciana 303]

Maybe you should reevaluate your usage of horses? You don't need to feel "forced" to breed so much if you stop taking them for granted. Like, maybe hunting on foot isn't so bad, y'know? Everybody did it in the past. Or you could, you know, be content with using so-so quality horses for dangerous situations?

Have you tried taking on more than one mob on foot or even a harder mob like a hell hound on foot recently?