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agentusp

Wurm Online thoughts about where it's headed

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Hi there!

 

Not many might recognise me nowadays but I've been a long time Wurm Online fan and untill the release of epic roamed on pretty much most of the maps that have been out since beta around the around 2005/2006. I grew up with MMORPGs, the games i played are what defines me, and sandboxes were usually the MMOs that kept me gone from "real life" the longest. I do consider my general experience with MMOs quite fair :P Please. keep reading, ill make it interesting dont give up :) 

Very often I find myself thinking about Wurm, the times I've had, all the fantastic trips into the wild and most of all the people, who I believe were equally divided into the ones that hated and liked me :P. Wurm is in my heart, no doubt I am in love with it, no man or woman has ever had that royal place inside of my thoughts. And yet, I can't get myself to play it again. 

 

I do remember the first day in wurm, last map before gold(wurm release, 2006) first log on, not knowing what to do, just a bunch of felled trees, logs, wooden huts some sand and clay, back then of course a lot of the textures were lacking and the game just seemed... simpler, which was good. Now I joined wurm because of a group of friends from a different MMORPG, Face of Mankind(My second love, dead, unfortunately). I knew where to go, they told me, they gave me my first task in the game, to join them I had to travel quite a long distance to the white light, then along a road etc etc. So all pumped up after getting to know the interface I started my first journey. It felt real, the game, even though everybody looked the same, it had that feeling of an alternate reality. And it wasn't that difficult at all to get started back then, the game had a lot less stuff in it, but still enough, enough to not make you all confused. Equipment list, skill table, can't get any simpler. After a bit of walking towards the white light, in a forest i came across a boar. I wanted to kill it of course, so I equipped my pickaxe... attacked it... and it totally owned me. I played around a bit, joined that village (Tiergarten) learned the basics and since the map too was already a bit used up just decided to wait for the big gold 1 release, where everyone began from zero again. 

 

Anyways, while typing this i realised that I could probably write a book about my personal wurm history, which is not the point, as I believe many of you could pretty much do the same. I just want to point out a few observations i made over the years, trying to put it together with the experience I gathered while playing other games, watching them rise and fall and the patterns that became clear once thinking stuff through.

 

The first thing new people see nowadays is the tutorial map, I don't like it. I didn't like any of the tutorials, they seemed like work. My brain hurt after going through it, it was too much, its confusing it discouraged me and discouraged the person i wanted to show wurm to.  The beautiful thing about wurm was its starter area. Wurm is a community game, soon after logging on and not really knowing what to do the first thing that comes to mind is to of course use the chat to get help. And help always came, readily. New Town and its area around always had people who were willing to show you around, teach you the basics, recruit you. And thats how you got into the game, making your first friend, getting that living anchor that makes you log on again in that cool new reality, not learning how to do all the things in one go, battling a headache on the way. It was so simple, If you're a loner, you could also just take the tools you were given at the beginning, and make your own way, and hell, it wasn't that hard to get into the game back then, because there were always folks around. I do believe a lot of the simplicity came because of the simplicity of the game itself. Wurm is too flashy right now. It used to be a darker game, darker textures, simpler buildings, less sophisticated stuff all around. It was appealing, i mean we have so much stuff around in real life nowadays why would we want to play games to, again, have too much? Why is wurm trying to become so modern and advanced. we just can't battle newer games by adding more stuff, sometimes less is MORE

 

Another thing I want to point out is the lack of refreshes. What i mean is, there used to be a period in wurm where maps kept getting reset, chapters ended, players returned, people reunited taking up yet another story which they could fill with their own experiences. Maps, player accounts, they used to get reset. All the beta maps, the first wurm gold map(memory failure, reimbursements were given out for that, i still believe it all turned out for the better), then the home servers. Stuff moved. Let things get static and people will leave because of boredom. Adding yet new maps and releasing unlimited only tears its community apart. We are a small community, living on a very vast planet, spread across so many Wurm Online maps(12 now? not counting wurm unlimited). Most people dont wan't to lose their 'work' they put into the game, their accounts, their settlements. But isn't the best part creating new stuff not piling it up? The monetary worth of skills is one of the reasons people are so against map resets. People will be sad, but it doesnt have to be that way, the reimbursement systems worked fine, and even the op items that were given out made this game slighlty more interesting but definitely not reason enough to quit the game. So much terrain, so few people around. Many are opposing the idea, but i firmly believe that after a FULL reset(including epic), fewer maps, just like the gold maps, one home server, one wild server, thats it, and the community will come back, it will stick together. Be a home server person and build great things yet again,  or go to wild to form alliances and battle each other. Adding new maps was the answer for people who wanted something new, but the ones that were too attached always stayed behind, making the servers empty. Wurm is a wasteland, lets make it green again so we can begin a new chapter.

 

We have Wurm Unlimited now, for those that want to let their imagination run free without boundaries, but Wurm Online is a community game, a MMORPG, it doesn't work without its players, Wurm Online: 2 maps, no tutorial map. just a home server, where everybody starts out,, and wild, where people cross over to step into the PvP world when ready.

Edited by agentusp
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Speaking as a casual player who just spent the past 5 years getting his Channeling, SD and Fatih up to usable levels, I personally would switch over to a WU server in the event of a character wipe.

 

A map "wipe" is a possibility; just golden valley the entire existing cluster, folks who want to stay can, everyone else can take the one way trip to the new world with whatever they can carry).

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That's fair enough, a lot of people will be thinking like you. The skills are what keeps most of us attached to this world. I also did my fair share of grinding over the years and yet wouldn't mind letting it all go for the sake of reuniting. 

Also, Wurm has reached a certain advanced level, many changes have been made to the system, many bugs which you probably don't know about from the past have made some of us advance quicker than we really should, all those things have to be evened out sometimes. And yes, wurm unlimited might be the answer for those who oppose but in the end, after a crash there will be a rise, unless of course you don't mind enchanting items in an empty world.

Edited by agentusp

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we should close down all server and all move to chaos or xanadu... and all will be fun again...  some ppl will left but many new will come :D

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Thats the right way of thinking Sila, some will leave, but most will return either way, something has to be done.

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I don't see much point in removing peoples hard work, it always seems to be "close servers I don't play on" 

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In no way shape or form would I ever move to Xanadu.  Chaos, been there, can always do again.

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40 minutes ago, agentusp said:

That's fair enough, a lot of people will be thinking like you. The skills are what keeps most of us attached to this world. I also did my fair share of grinding over the years and yet wouldn't mind letting it all go for the sake of reuniting. 

Also, Wurm has reached a certain advanced level, many changes have been made to the system, many bugs which you probably don't know about from the past have made some of us advance quicker than we really should, all those things have to be evened out sometimes. And yes, wurm unlimited might be the answer for those who oppose but in the end, after a crash there will be a rise, unless of course you don't mind enchanting items in an empty world.

4

 

I would agree with you if your notion had any solid evidence to it.

 

While such an action could potentially cause a wurm "reunification" (I assume you are talking about a populationally dense server here); it also has (in my opinion) a chance to do the opposite (at least based on existing player attitudes towards character loss) and would be the final death knell in wurm's history.  My reasoning for this is that the ONLY advantage WO has over WU is the promise of server perpetuity (WU is cheaper, much more customizable, has some amazing communities, epic worlds, better PvP balance, better priest balance etc); take this away and you'll likely see a mass exodus to a chosen WU server that will keep this promise.

 

Quite frankly, the notion of "after a crash there will be a rise" is naively optimistic, and the web is scattered with the old forums of dead MMOs that bare witness to this.

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Retrograde: Well, in my case it really is "close servers I don't play on". I expected resistance, it is always there, and of course those that really did "work" the most will be the ones opposing the strongest. People fail to see the bigger picture here, Wurm Online is an MMORPG, thats what it should be about. A lot of the current stuff that has been built will be lost, but it always can and will be rebuild, if not by you then by somebody else. What is the point of all the stuff we create if there is nobody but ourself that'll look at it? It is not meant to last. Again, look at the stats , if nothing gets done you'll be alone in your sandbox.

 

Nomad: No, of course moving everybody to Xanadu is a bad idea, i just pointed out the correct way of thinking

 

Ether: What solid evidence? I can't look into the future only at whats been happening over the years. What is clear though that there are way too many maps, and far too little players. With very simple deduction you come to the result, too much space for too few people. Is this an MMO or an offline game? Instead of trying to do something that might actually work you want to wait for a slow death untill its too late for even a unification? The chance of a death is very slim by the way we had many resets in the past, before your time and never did they really cause major player loss. But you're right, can't really know in the end.

Edited by agentusp
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Player subscriptions have been stable for the past year following those who migrated to WU. We also had spikes in population when we gave away gifts to premium players. 

 

While I can understand the desire to see communities closer together, this is achievable as it is, and  and I'm not sure how  suggesting some people lose all of their hard work would bring anyone new into the game, infact I see it having the opposite effect 

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It doesn't make sense, that you suggest server wide wipes to bring "freshness" into the community and game, when the game itself doesn't change.

I have seen people all by themselves go to other servers to start over...again and again and while they were busy there for a few months, they usually were never staying for long and usually with explanations that it wasn't what they expected and still felt unsatisfied.
I have seen how people reacted to new servers and I have seen how wurm was before we had so many servers...and you know what? While I agree that the tutorial is really not ideal for this kind of game, people will always find something to complain about...when we only had 2 servers it was most often neighbour disputes about land and "free natural land" in general...especially coast places...now with the community being so spread out there are a lot of coast spaces available and tbh the complaints about that came down......

What I don't like about these kind of suggestions, is that there seems to be an assumption that something you thought of, that might solve your personal problem with wurm, that it would apply to the whole community. 
So...what happens if they would actually do what you suggest and it would not increase player count? and it would not change the way how you can't get yourself into wurm anymore? 
Do you have anything that would actually back up your thoughts with facts or experiences that this would actually be helpful?

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Resetting servers and removing people's hard work is foolish. Wurm thrives on the PvE side for several reasons. Players can let their creativity run wild and create all kinds of interesting deeds, with the certainty that those creations will still be there in the future as long as you keep them on a deed. That's the main difference to WU. With WU you have no such certainty, the server you are playing on could be gone tomorrow. Why would PvE players keep playing in WO instead of moving to WU if this certainty is removed from WO? Some people will stay for the community, sure, but if enough people in those communities move over then the rest will either follow or quit because effectively their community fell apart, I've seen it happen plenty of times, first hand even when Xanadu was added. Retrograde is spot on that removing people's hard work and the certainty that any future work will continue to exist, will drive people from the game more than it will bring people back. It doesn't even matter who is right in this case as from a business standpoint, common sense says the risk attached to a full reset is far too great.

 

The certainty that whatever you make in game will still be there in 5-10 years is one of Wurm's greatest strengths, removing that on purpose is folly. Especially since the game already has options for people who don't like it when things become static. Want change? Pack up your stuff and start over in one of the many different servers. Want to start from 0? Make a new account. When things became too static for me a few years back I packed up some of my stuff and set sail for another server, where I put down a deed and starting terraforming the area. I did this on spot which had a settlement once, though you can't tell that by looking at it now. Three years later I'm still terraforming and I am far from done, perhaps in another 3-4 years it will be close to finished, but I doubt it. I certainly won't bother with Wurm if occasional resets will start to happen as I ain't got time for that ###### and would never be able to finish anything before another reset occurs.

Edited by Ecrir
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That is a tricky situation. The current problem is a part of new player experience. Wurm's player numbers have stabilized roughly where they were in 2011, when Exodus was released.  Now think, between how many servers players were split then and between how many now.

Just few examples.. Independence currently(as I am writing this) has 404 prem players. In 2011 september (using wayback machine) we can see, that it had roughly 1k more players (https://web.archive.org/web/20110930072935/http://freedom001.game.wurmonline.com:80/mrtg/paying.html ). In 2012 smaller servers (deli, exo, cele) had basically the same amount of players as indy has currently. The numbers have actually significant impact on players experience. And from new players perspective it matters quite a bit, if you see a living breathing world, or just a ghost town.

Starting to close the servers isn't the best solution.. as is not sitting idly and pretending everything is ok.

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1 hour ago, agentusp said:

Thats the right way of thinking Sila, some will leave, but most will return either way, something has to be done.

 

As your avatar would say, "nothing is fudged dude, nothing is fudged."  Granted, he may not have had my enthusiasm for chocolate syrup, but the principle remains.

 

Wurm as too flashy... I'm not sure what you're referring to?  The player models have certainly improved, the horses, pretty much every facet of graphics.  I'm glad I had a chance to see Wurm with green clad players standing on flat looking horses, but only for reasons of nostalgia and historical interest.  I wouldn't ever want Wurm to have remained that way.  I think all the changes they have brought forth have been wonderful and have added value to the game.

 

There are certain things in Wurm that are newer that I've chosen not to approach yet.  That's always a choice, and I'd see no reason to deny those who enjoy those new things.  Their enjoyment, particularly on PvE, has no negative repercussions on my enjoyment at all.  I love the new mine decorations, I've never been to a single rift.  I know people who have really enjoyed the rifts.  Just because I don't partake is no reason for others to not enjoy them.

 

As for the tutorial, having one is good.  Having it be true to the game itself and a good representation of what is to come is also good.  If it isn't, that will come out quickly enough and wouldn't reflect well on CCAB.  A new one is in development.

 

Having been gone a while (since release of epic?), perhaps your attachment to the character you created has subsided.  I can understand that, and I can appreciate that returning to a living game after a long break can be hard when there have been many changes.  Whenever I hop into Eve Online, I find myself doing their tutorial again because it's been so long.  I wouldn't be terribly upset if they erased my main toon... starting over is probably the best option for me personally.

 

Having said that, no way would I ever expect the whole universe to be reset because I've fallen behind the times.

In Wurm, I have consistently, steadfastly been growing my character, Reylaark.  It is the very same toon I first joined Wurm with.  It is the only toon I have ever been dedicated to.  I'm not really the grinding type, so it has been a (very) slow growth.  There is absolutely no way, short of a cosmic cataclysm, that I would accept having the toon I've grown with be killed off. 

 

Nothing is fudged dude, but go with the nuclear option you're suggesting and WO is done.  As for your particular preferences, you're in luck.  You can make a WU server exactly to your liking.  You can mod vast portions of the game.  You can re-introduce simplistic, flat graphics.  Everyone in green tunics.  No female toons if you like, whatever you want, that suits you personally.  Heck, just building that world may provide you entertainment you really enjoy :)

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3 hours ago, Sila said:

we should close down all server and all move to chaos or xanadu... and all will be fun again...  some ppl will left but many new will come :D

Why not close chaos and xanadu and let everyone else move to other servers instead?:huh::ph34r:

Nice joke, back at ya;)

(nobody wants to move, everyone have invested various things where they play.. it's not just the coins or time spent there)

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3 hours ago, agentusp said:

i just pointed out the correct way of thinking

 

I'm sorry, but no.  Please don't take this as adversarial, it's early and I'm still sitting here with my face in a cup of coffee.  While I'm not ready to comment yet on the bulk of your op, this stood out to me because as long as an argument is based on this premise, it will go nowhere.

 

You did not point out the "correct" way of thinking, you merely pointed out your way of thinking.  That is a personal opinion that will naturally be shared by some and rejected by others, just as what others are saying are personal opinions which will be shared by some and rejected by others. 

 

To say that your way of thinking is the "correct" way of thinking is, imo, half of what's wrong with the entire world right now.  It always grates on me when I see people try to bring that mentality to a game that I play to get away from people telling others what is "correct thinking."

Edited by Amadee
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I disagree with the tutorial being stupid. Back in the day you used to log in and be completely and utterly lost. I have had a couple friends try it since the tutorials and it worked well to teach them the basics of how to traverse the menus and what not. Wurm is a very unique game.

 

I do agree with the sentiment of refreshes. Not character wipes, but Wurm seriously needs some server consolidations to take place. Players could get reimbursed for what they lose, and even have a time period to load up a boat and move. New maps are always exciting. I would say a new Indy type map and a new Chaos. You can leave the map you are on but you can't go back. All new players have to start on the new map. Give some sort of incentive to move. Then slowly close the existing servers as they hollow out. 

 

I know it is an unpopular idea, but Wurm is a building game. I know many people who have found that perfect spot, built up, got bored, then left Wurm. When they return they move to a new spot and build up. They repeat the cycle over and over. I thought the original idea of Epic was to have scenarios that reset every six months or so. Even that would be better than the stagnant state of Wurm right now. We keep getting new, great things added to the game, but the maps are littered with broken settlements and a fragmented community. Bringing everyone back together along with a new land rush would be existing and fresh. Wurm needs to figure something out because there are a few good sandbox builders/survival MMO's on the way. Life is Feudal is amazing but it lacks the freeform building that keeps bringing me back to Wurm.

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I'm one of the rare people that like the large size of Xan and not most of it being populated.  There are plenty of deeds out there.  I hunt a lot on the smaller servers, but just like exploring Xan.  Can random teleport and that's more fun on Xan also since it's larger and not always right next to a deed.  Good adventures.

 

Random teleported on Deli and kept either being right next to a deed or in the water.  No real adventure there.

 

I also like the very long travel (not all the time).  Just feels more like a simulator then.  lol

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Same. I love Xanadu and how massive in area it is. Compared to Xan the other servers imo are too small and too riddled with the evidences of previous inhabitants, and even if there was some kind of server "resets"/"refreshes" I wouldn't consider redeeding on another server unless it was at least the size of Xanadu (lived in Indy... too small for me). Even when Budda's new creature changes get put ingame I will be staying where I live in the boonies of Xan.

Edited by geode
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I feel like the OP's suggestions would bring the game backwards, not forwards.(No offense intended.)

 

Did you not know you can walk right through the tutorial area, just skip it effectively?

I've talked about shutting maps down before or doing a reset, trust me, NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. 

Just pick a server and rejoin us dude. Find a good group and you'll have fun. :)

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We don't need a wipe.

 

There is WU for those want new world and different capabilities.

 

WO could use a Challenge Server event that lasts 2 weeks or so and appears once or twice  a year.

 

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*Ties a message to a brick and throws it into the middle of discussion before running off back to the safety of his heavily barricaded, attack unicorn guarded mountain*

 

*Upon picking up the brick and unwrapping the message you read "remove subscription, that will up player numbers"*

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14 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

*Ties a message to a brick and throws it into the middle of discussion before running off back to the safety of his heavily barricaded, attack unicorn guarded mountain*

 

*Upon picking up the brick and unwrapping the message you read "remove subscription, that will up player numbers"*

Good idea, remove funding so the game gets shut down. Brilliant. xP

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2 minutes ago, Matholameu said:
18 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

*Ties a message to a brick and throws it into the middle of discussion before running off back to the safety of his heavily barricaded, attack unicorn guarded mountain*

 

*Upon picking up the brick and unwrapping the message you read "remove subscription, that will up player numbers"*

Good idea, remove funding so the game gets shut down. Brilliant. xP

yup.. insta' rip and boosting WU sales:huh::rolleyes:

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We're not shutting down servers.

 

End of story.

 

Rolf's policy has always been so long as there's even one person still playing on a server, it's going to remain open. There's no post size quota, like quota, poll quota, or any other unit of measure that's going to change that. You might as well get used to it and move on.

 

Did you check out what you can do in caves now? Might be a better use of time.

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