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Retrograde

Highway Protection system

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i see only problem that lamps planted on highways need to autolit since road is protected... without any blessing

 

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If the objective of the Highway system change was to remove the need for GM's to referee Highway disputes what other solutions were considered?

 

Why not remove highways altogether for instance.

 

In commenting on the new system.  

Is it really wise to create structures that are really difficult to remove even if said builder has moved away or left game?

How many places are already littered with deeds decaying on forever upkeep? - at least they decay.
Building without reference to the local community where there is no intention to be a part of the local community is already an issue, now we add highways to the mix?
Why would we reward anyone with a quasi-permanent off-deed structure, that was not being used, maintained or bringing cash to the game?

Are we not in danger of creating lands where all the highway projects are a done deal with nothing for new folk to tackle other than highway the place to death.

Surely with the exception of a few existing highways decay due to lack of use / maintenance / upkeep would recycle opportunity for new players.

 

Edited by Antalach
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What happens when a deed that is a highway terminus disbands, do the catsyes for that section decay since they will no longer be linking a terminating waypoint.

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The highway stays there, that part of the documentation may change as we look over the system, disbanding a deed does not remove the highway.

 

slowed decay on structures marked by highways is for those who use houses for bridge parts,  

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Can you tell us a bit more on how we can alter a highway in the future, please?

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2 hours ago, Cecci said:

Can you tell us a bit more on how we can alter a highway in the future, please?

If you wish to remove the pavement catseyes can be bashed (Pried) with a crowbar, once they are removed the tiles aren't protected and the modifications can be done.

 

If you wish to add a new route, simply upgrade a catseye to a waystone and build from there

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On 2017-06-04 at 0:56 AM, Jaz said:

I have checked if I can even out some rough surface of a highway, it is allowed on the far end of the protected area but not in the adjacent corners to the catseye.

Will this mean that there is no practical way to fix highways which are laid down really bumpy?

As I tried there is no real way to bash the catseyes, with a 90ql maul, 90 str I bashed 0.2 damage on a 88ql one.

The catseyes of 88ql already has 2dmg on the test server, will they poof in a few weeks without repair?

 

The glow of the catseyes and the waypoints side lights and glow when showing the direction is a bit off Wurm for me, feels like hightech...

Did you try with a crowbar?

 

I totally agree on the hightech, specially in tunnels, feels really silly.

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10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The highway stays there, that part of the documentation may change as we look over the system, disbanding a deed does not remove the highway.

 

slowed decay on structures marked by highways is for those who use houses for bridge parts,  

 

I don't think buildings should be part of highways, and buildings used for a bridge on a highway leads to having to deal with unnecessary exposure to bridge bugs when crossing. It is no fun picking your cart or horse out of some structure you do not have access to.

 

As well I can see abuse from this as well with people doing buildings/bridges to tie up lands with a decay free building.

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3 hours ago, Cecci said:

Did you try with a crowbar?

 

I totally agree on the hightech, specially in tunnels, feels really silly.

 

0.07 dmg on a 88ql catseye - but true it is a creation ql crowbar, I should make steel and imp one to 90ql, it is not in the Test menu.

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The damage thing will be addressed soon, it's not intended

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On 6/4/2017 at 10:02 PM, Eobersig said:

 

Fixing badly made highways, removing catseyes and markers on abandoned highways (and fallen deeds) and the general hightech feeling are my main concerns as well.

 

Mine to, still plenty to do around the place, i guess if cats eyes are going to be put down by players then roads can be fixed as we go or prior to cat's eyeing that section of road.

 

Edited by lawurm

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The damage thing will be addressed soon, it's not intended

 

Don't we run into conflicting design goals here?

 

Since it's the catseyes and markers that protect a highway they should be difficult to remove (else they don't protect the road), but they need to be easy to remove to alter bad and abandoned highways.

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I don't see many people building sloppy highways bothering to spend the time to protect it. Sure, some passable roads will be protected that those of us with OCD will dislike, but I don't think it'll be that common. Also, the 2x2 required pavement will leave many makeshift highways unable to complete the chain from 1 end to the other. I do kinda worry that the 3x3 protection will require a vast sum of cats eyes for larger longer highways. Maybe the 3x3 can be extended to 3x5 in the directions it's linked. This would also make repairs easier as fewer cats eyes need to be removed. The 3x3 also will make protecting diagonal roads completely difficult. there are going to be sections left out if a cats-eye isn't put every tile.

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a 2 tile wide highway will use as many catseyes as a 3 tile wide highway. They need to be on every tile corner to link

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Up next: Traffic lights, stop signs, and street wardens!

 

PROGRESS!!!!!

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Very interesting, but...

 

Getting from the current freedom highway rules to this new system will be interesting. Will those highways that are currently protected by the highway rules, and satisfy the new rules, auto-magically have catseyes added, or will it be up to the existing players to do this? If the later I'd expect there to be some length overlap of the two approaches as this is likely to take some time.

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As I see it, only few of the existing highways will meet the requirements (and, technically they may not even do so now), because to be considered a valid highway they have to connect at least 2 deeds. Experience shows, however, that most players are reluctant to extend their deeds over an existing highway, or let a highway run through their deeds!

 

Instead, what we usually see is that a deed will just barely touch a highway, so that existing highways come very close to a number of deeds but rarely ever run through them. (I know several examples of that on Deli.)xlqleOd.png

Thus, even under the current highway rules, some of our well used highways may not count as such, technically - and will not do so in the future if the current rules are applied. Maybe the rules should be extended in that highways are not required to run through a deed, but run "close to" adjacent deeds (whatever "close to" may mean ... a matter of definition, of course).

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7 minutes ago, Yaga said:

As I see it, only few of the existing highways will meet the requirements (and, technically they may not even do so now), because to be considered a valid highway they have to connect at least 2 deeds. Experience shows, however, that most players are reluctant to extend their deeds over an existing highway, or let a highway run through their deeds!

 

Instead, what we usually see is that a deed will just barely touch a highway, so that existing highways come very close to a number of deeds but rarely ever run through them. (I know several examples of that on Deli.)xlqleOd.png

Thus, even under the current highway rules, some of our well used highways may not count as such, technically - and will not do so in the future if the current rules are applied. Maybe the rules should be extended in that highways are not required to run through a deed, but run "close to" adjacent deeds (whatever "close to" may mean ... a matter of definition, of course).

This scenario can be solved by placing a waystone at the deed entrances and creating a highway junction - the two terminus can be at deeds - as I understand if there is a waystone on the very last tile of said deeds it will be fine enough.

The deeds alongside the highway need to put effort only into the waystones if they want to be on the list of reachable deeds.

Edited by Jaz

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If a Highway starts at a deed and a long way away ends at a deed the highway is protected.

Deeds along  the path can add a 2 lane road from the highway with catstones and waystones to their deed if they want.

Or they can add curbs,fences,  hedges, plantations to the sides of a one lane to their deed to reduce chance of griefing.

Deed owners have choices if they think about it, and choices based on risk.

 

And the community can get together for the most essential long highways.

 

Wish their was an option to turn on / off visibility of the  catseyes.

 

Edited by zorako
add a line at end

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Since these Catseyes can be removed by anyone with a *crowbar* I really don't see them as offering much more protection than the minor inconvenience of removing them. So in the end all they are is a deterrent to easy highway damage and alteration. Better that they be secured/planted by the individual because then only they or a GM can remove them and alter they highway. As proposed they are lacking in the protective aspect but may be of some worth for the navigation and glowy effects.

 

After reading all this I am not too motivated to do much with them except perhaps some short stretches around my deed. Probably some more motivated individuals will be placing them along highway routes anyway, even if they did not build them themselves. Just have to see it through the Cats-eyes, I guess.

 

=Ayes=

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If the catseyes can be removed, then they will be.. and anyone can destroy/alter the highways at will. So in disputes the GMs STILL have to be involved. That is making things even messier, as currently touching highway is taboo, so the background even doesn't matter. But when there is no highway rule, and the story has several "actors", then the GMs have to get into the story to find out who was the offender etc..

 

In any case, from me its big "meh".

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18 hours ago, Jaz said:

This scenario can be solved by placing a waystone at the deed entrances and creating a highway junction - the two terminus can be at deeds - as I understand if there is a waystone on the very last tile of said deeds it will be fine enough.

The deeds alongside the highway need to put effort only into the waystones if they want to be on the list of reachable deeds.

 

what if you had a deed with 2 separate highways ending on different sides of a deed with no highway running through the deed.

 

would we be able to place 2 waystones (one on  each side of the same deed)?

 

 

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If a highway consists of a single lane of paving bordered by sand on both sides, will the cats eye work with that?

 

 

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35 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

If a highway consists of a single lane of paving bordered by sand on both sides, will the cats eye work with that?

 

 

According to the guidelines no. Only two or more wide tile roads will be considered a highway now.

Edited by Talohan
corrected

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1 side sand can be replaced with gravel and it'll work. I don't think the highway system checks that the tiles are passable, just 2x2 paved.

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