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Davih

Gardening Nerf?

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It is awesome!
We can make the trellises and if it is out of deed we need to imp it time to time and prune it time to time and if we forgot the pruning they will die.
I have many deeds, and many trellises are on my deeds for decoration. I wouldn't like travel around to prune trellises.
The bushes regrow after those are died. And the trellises?

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39 minutes ago, Jaz said:

That is an item, not a bush/tree so I'm quite sure will not respawn. So go again, make the trellis, imp it up again, plant it and best to keep an excel sheet with the timings to when to prune what and where.......

Hope not. Then they would REALLY be useless. Whats the point when you can have bushes that will regrow on their own? Just let them grow wild and pick them when in season, just like trees. Why do all the extra work? You can just as well spend your effort on a off deed fenced area and grow your bushes there.

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that would just be beyond ridiculous, i don't think that will be the case to be honest

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if they work the same they will age randomly and then have a rather smal (5% iirc) chance to regrow from shriveled into young every little while, so while they wouldnt really be lost im pretty certain itd mess up a lot of a full harvest if u decide to not prune them but let rngesus decide.

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36 minutes ago, Arium said:

if they work the same they will age randomly and then have a rather smal (5% iirc) chance to regrow from shriveled into young every little while, so while they wouldnt really be lost im pretty certain itd mess up a lot of a full harvest if u decide to not prune them but let rngesus decide.

I havent really done much other than for decoration, but whats the difference between that and a bush then?

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6 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I havent really done much other than for decoration, but whats the difference between that and a bush then?

 i was actually just pointing out how trellises work now about aging if they work the same as bushes, which they do if i understood retro correctly.

 

guess theres not supposed to be a difference other than personal preference. well except that theres no hops bushes :P

Edited by Arium
them typos

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Very big difference. I never cared about the harvest from trellises but I really like them as decoration...

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Pretty big nerf to the trellis, to be honest.

 

Also, wild growth doesn't age them; whats up with that?

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8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

They will be able to be pruned and kept from getting overaged, otherwise they will behave exactly like the bush tiles, with an obvious benefit of being more compact.

 

 

8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

leaving them to grow naturally would have the exact same effect as a wild grape patch

 

So, a couple things are still not clear.  Do they re-sprout on the existing trellis if they go shriveled?  Or if we miss it, does the trellis poof with it and we have to make another?  And do we now have to make the rounds and keep all the decorative trellises pruned? As someone else said, doesn't that cancel out the benefits of decorations not taking decay on deed?  Not everyone uses them for harvesting.

Edited by Amadee

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I love how most people just used trellies as decorations anyway,
they needed a nerf so much :D

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Like trees and bushes they go back to young, they don't die and disappear.

 

If you are using them for decoration nothing changes

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Ugh. I don't understand why you guys change your minds all of the time, based on this thread it looks like the unpopular opinion here.

 

Need I remind you how often people get annoyed by random changes like this. Some are not even considered game breaking, to many to count so not going to even bother.

 

We need more QoL not less... and who really is meta gaming trellises (why is this even on the Devs radar?) You already prevent so many on a tile, so what gives? I always thought of this as QoL and a safer way to pick grapes/hops.

 

I can think of over 10 game breaking bugs that should be fixed, the biggest one is embarking glitch. So yeah I'm disappointed, with everything about this change. I now ask myself why bother?

 

Now i'd need 100 times as many trellises =  which will result in more item lag = and more server and local instability = which in turn will be more people frustrated about lag. You would think the to many object lag or embarking bug would be focused on but apparently trellises are some of the major issues. I assure you though it's just going to get worst now. 

 

Thanks.

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Why do you need 100 times as many trellises? 

 

you're again confusing quality of life with "easier". Trellises were made harvestable with 1.3 when hops came in, and originally the intent was harvest amount to be quality based. We decided this would penalise low skill players more, as they'd need 80+ql trellises to get 4 harvests, so decided to go with age. 

 

Trellises still outweigh bushes in terms of space used, and also have the same age issues, complaining about hav ing to keep trellises in the correct age bracket would pose the exact same problems if you tried to do it with bushes.

 

Trellises were not designed to be an easy min/max alternative, which is what seems to have upset people here. Those who use them as decorations and occasional harvests will see little to no change.

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I thought this was just some kind of glitch...but if they really put ages on the trellises...that's a step backwards in the game.

It's on par with the 'You have to go around and gather hundreds of snowballs just to fill your larder with 99 QL because they don't instantly come out at 99 QL and if you don't have 99 QL, they'll decay out before even a couple RL days go by'.

After 4 in-game winters of having to do the snowball gathering, I'm fast losing interest in bothering to stick around. These types of mechanics aren't fun, and are pure time-wasters. Now we have to maintain our trellises too because someone thought it was a good idea to waste people's time even more like this?

For the record, I'm 60+ gardening, and 66+ forestry. This isn't an improvement. Are you trying to get your premium people to quit paying?

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Hmm.. I don't see any reason, why gardening should do forestry stuff better than forestry itself. Could gardening use some love? Definitely.. but not at the expense of forestry.

 

To the devs tho, maybe you should start bringing out features, when they are fully ready and work how they are designed.. not at some mid stage and then make U turns. You should finally understand, Wurm is a live game, it is not a test server.

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8 minutes ago, rixk said:

To the devs tho, maybe you should start bringing out features, when they are fully ready and work how they are designed.. not at some mid stage and then make U turns. You should finally understand, Wurm is a live game, it is not a test server.

It's also a game that grows and evolves over time, what works when designed can often be seen to change when put into practice, as players find different ways of doing things and unexpected issues arise. 

 

Things can, do, and will change as the game goes on, old practices become replaced by new practices, and new systems sometimes need tweaking (both downwards and upwards). This is the same for any game, and failing to change at all would be far more detrimental than accepting that sometimes we need to change things after they go live.

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Why do you need 100 times as many trellises? 

 

you're again confusing quality of life with "easier". Trellises were made harvestable with 1.3 when hops came in, and originally the intent was harvest amount to be quality based. We decided this would penalise low skill players more, as they'd need 80+ql trellises to get 4 harvests, so decided to go with age. 

 

Trellises still outweigh bushes in terms of space used, and also have the same age issues, complaining about hav ing to keep trellises in the correct age bracket would pose the exact same problems if you tried to do it with bushes.

 

Trellises were not designed to be an easy min/max alternative, which is what seems to have upset people here. Those who use them as decorations and occasional harvests will see little to no change.

 

Why not have harvest ammont depend on skill and harvest quality depend on *gasp* quality?

 

This whole system is backwards. And making them age just makes it even more backwards.

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This cooking update is just proving to be a waste of time for us players.

And if things are to be skillbased or ql based, whatever, just do so it is same all over the board.

 

Don't tell me this is better for newbies.

This adds massive amounts of chores on the newbies as well as on the older and/or skilled players.

The whole cooking update is just chores.

 

We're not slaves,we are paying costumers.

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Personally, for all that I dislike it, I think the nerf was needed.

 

I don't think the spell immunity was though...

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35 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Personally, for all that I dislike it, I think the nerf was needed.

 

I don't think the spell immunity was though...

That's possible as a suggestion *points that way*

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3 hours ago, bdew said:

Why not have harvest ammont depend on skill and harvest quality depend on *gasp* quality?

 

This whole system is backwards. And making them age just makes it even more backwards.

I like the 1st part.. for skill to affect harvest, maybe to some extent.. not flat skill = ql,  but I don't see the need for ql lock to trellis's ql;

Why not just damage the trellises after each harvesting season ONLY if they have been harvested.. that way.. only the people who use them are going to have to deal with their maintenance.. damage could be a flat 10% or some QL drop

 

decorative trellises wont be affected that way...

everybody's happy:)

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Things can, do, and will change as the game goes on, old practices become replaced by new practices, and new systems sometimes need tweaking (both downwards and upwards). This is the same for any game, and failing to change at all would be far more detrimental than accepting that sometimes we need to change things after they go live.

 

Sorry but no, Wurm is not like any games where you can switch systems and hope your player base will recover. Any bad and/or stupid changes will make players switch to a new meta they can easilly exploit (windows of opportunity(TM)) or just plainly leave the game.

 

You should know better than anyone that some things need to be discused with the players, why some changes might be needed and how to allow a smoother transition than full harvest for 80+QL to you got ###### at young, wait for X time to have them very old. Something people actually complains about in that very same thread (or the need to increase the treillis farm).

 

Bottom line, you need to find a balance between "It's our game, we will do as we please and you will deal with it" and "The customer is always right" (cause even if we aren't, we are still paying or going to stop paying for said game).

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Sadly, another reason to stay unsubscribed.

 

Let's invoke the undying Runescape.  I have about 1hr's worth of dailies, could make it up to 3hrs, but not doing them involves lesser profits, not outright loss.

 

At least the trellises don't disappear if not tended, but if the timing's right (wrong), you "lose" it for that harvest season.

 

Folks with jobs who have an hour or two to burn at the end of the day snuck into the rinse-repeat cycle of dinner-sleep-wake-poop-work-dinner-sleep will just find a game that doesn't feel like a second job, or in the best of cases WU.

 

Way to scare off your disposable income and then dismissing its concerns.

 

I found the "Xanadu lag makes upkeep cheaper!!!!!" reply quite unsatisfactory on that other thread, and while at the time I decided to stay quiet, my first thought was:

"... until the upkeep 'bug' is adjusted to charge full fees while lag remains the same."

 

Great game, generally awesome job by the devs.  Praiseworthy even and that's no sarcasm.  But you guys' sense of business honestly hurts my brain.

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Harvesting from bushes and trellis is now the same across the board, age affects cap, your skill thresholds affect yield, and skill affects output ql.

 

Before that it was not the same, and trellises  had a superior advantage to bushes in all aspects. It has now been brought in line.

 

It is not a system to gain maximum output with minimum input, if you wish to harvest 4 yield per trellis it is possible to keep it at very old, but otherwise you treat them like every other bush, and harvest them at whatever age they are. 

 

(Off topic, but that xanadu upkeep thing, as I said in that thread, is for all purposes, intended)

 

 

 

 

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