Etherdrifter

Meditation Skillgain QoL

27 posts in this topic

1.  Reduce overall tick size

2.  Make each meditate action guaranteed to give a tick

 

Total effect: No change to average skillgain rate, but a lot less ragequitting players after 10 meditations actions without skillgain

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Posted (edited)

Maybe there's something ragequitters do not know..
How did 90/+ medi chars get there?:huh:

patience

 

--edit

I stopped at 70... reaching the 'only' reason for the skill.. free teleport at 80 seemed useless for me

 

Why a new topic? instead of asking for new way to grind the skill .. in zeke's post?

Edited by Finnn

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4 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Maybe there's something ragequitters do not know..
How did 90/+ medi chars get there?:huh:

patience

 

 

The same way folks got channeling up to 90 before Nahjo; patience and no life XD

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I have 95 meditating and I 100% agree. It should give 1/2 as much skill per tick but give skill every time using the same timers as it currently does. This would make the skill much less depressing to grind.

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2 minutes ago, thorgot said:

I have 95 meditating and I 100% agree. It should give 1/2 as much skill per tick but give skill every time using the same timers as it currently does. This would make the skill much less depressing to grind.

 

I would choose to have longer timers with 100% success rate for everything if I could. Failing a 50% chance 10 times in a row really isn't fun ;s

It is especially bad with meditation though where you only get a few attempts a day.

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Moved to Suggestions & Ideas. :)

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35 minutes ago, Warlander said:

Moved to Suggestions & Ideas. :)

 

Ack!  Thanks, I was quite sleepy when I posted this up.

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+1

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-1 I was hoping for a more fun idea... Rather than just meditating once every 30 mins, Personal quests pertaining to the path would be nice, but before having a path keep the usual meditate. Those who follow path of love can collect a certain amount of flowers and meditate with it in their inventory for the skill (Make sure its consumed). Hate meditating with a specific corpses for a skill gain. ANYTHING that would be more amusing, and keep the same skillgain. Just meditate, have a mission pop up, and complete it for the skill.

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+1

after around the 8th or 9th fail in a row, you start to doubt the randomness mechanism and your life choices in general

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Idk, every skill has this mechanic, why would meditation be special.

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after certain level.. you just start using certain rug ql that works better for your skill.. and there are no problems...

for me it was quite rare to get bad days with no ticks... or 1/5

most of the time it was 4/5 or 5/5 ticks + some or all of the 3hour cd.. (given.. some of these does give 0.0000007823 or whatever ###### tick, but that's 1 time in 1-2weeks)

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If you go mining rock with 99ql pick(just random high number), it is considered normal, when you dont gain skill ticks. But when you do the same with meditating (99ql rug at 10skill.. again random numbers), then everyone is shocked, when they don't receive any ticks.

 

I am at 97 meditating and when I actively meditated, then I didn't have any days, where I didn't receive any ticks. Manage your rug QL and you'll be fine.

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1 hour ago, Kurson said:

Idk, every skill has this mechanic, why would meditation be special.

 

Says the man with over 80 meditation; the RNG gods just love you :P

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5 hours ago, Finnn said:

after certain level.. you just start using certain rug ql that works better for your skill.. and there are no problems...

for me it was quite rare to get bad days with no ticks... or 1/5

most of the time it was 4/5 or 5/5 ticks + some or all of the 3hour cd.. (given.. some of these does give 0.0000007823 or whatever ###### tick, but that's 1 time in 1-2weeks)

The best possible average skillgain in any skill is just over 50%. At 90, even with a QL1 rug, the best you can do is around 40%.

 

Your anecdotal evidence is not useful when math exists to calculate these things.

6 hours ago, Kurson said:

Idk, every skill has this mechanic, why would meditation be special.

Meditation is the only skill where you can go a few days without gaining it. The idea behind games where you grind is that you get caught up in a positive feedback loop where you see a number going up and that makes you happy. Meditation is unique because Rolf messed with this feedback loop and added a chance of the number not going up for hours or days at a time, thus breaking the feedback loop. He got away with this for every other skill because when the number doesn't go up, you can just try again immediately.

 

Lockpicking is similar but less useful and has such a short timer that even on a bad day you can always gain a few ticks, maintaining the positive feedback loop.

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42 minutes ago, thorgot said:

 

Meditation is the only skill where you can go a few days without gaining it. The idea behind games where you grind is that you get caught up in a positive feedback loop where you see a number going up and that makes you happy. Meditation is unique because Rolf messed with this feedback loop and added a chance of the number not going up for hours or days at a time, thus breaking the feedback loop. He got away with this for every other skill because when the number doesn't go up, you can just try again immediately.

Maybe he didn't mess up and it's supposed to not make a positive feedback loop, because it's a special skill.

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Posted (edited)

53 minutes ago, thorgot said:

Your anecdotal evidence is not useful when math exists to calculate these things.

wu code isnt 1:1 wo

I'm not building a case on this, or complaining, 'spoke' from experience

 

--edit

53 minutes ago, thorgot said:

Meditation is the only skill where you can go a few days without gaining it. The idea behind games where you grind is that you get caught up in a positive feedback loop where you see a number going up and that makes you happy. Meditation is unique because Rolf messed with this feedback loop and added a chance of the number not going up for hours or days at a time, thus breaking the feedback loop. He got away with this for every other skill because when the number doesn't go up, you can just try again immediately.

 

Lockpicking is similar but less useful and has such a short timer that even on a bad day you can always gain a few ticks, maintaining the positive feedback loop.

Not really.. go check the code for reference.. a bit more than 1 skill.. use some rng for skill ticks, meditating just have limited amount of attempts per day a few fails mean a lot.. same for your example with positive feedback, when you get a tick - you feel like something amazing have happened(when in reality..oh well rng shined upon you).
This only makes it easier to skill up and less special or rare to have.

It is not hard to skill it up if you know what you're doing, that's one of the things that makes wurm special.. many of the skills have their own way to grind the skill and you learn them with time.. and talking with others, exchanging tips, you get to learn what you were doing wrong or maybe you did better than others.

This kills the old way and dumbs it down for the lazy people, making it easy and simple - meditate, wait x minutes, repeat; :unsure:

Edited by Finnn

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QoL would be a change like not letting you pick up the rug while meditating, which was added. This is just flattening the skill, making it lose the uniqueness and you won't even gain skill faster.

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16 hours ago, Kurson said:

Idk, every skill has this mechanic, why would meditation be special.

.... this idea isnt special... its just like raising faith without preaching.

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this is more of a replacement than just "qol"

 

qol would be remove requirement to meditate in a different spot to gain skill and remove the 3 hr timer, let us meditate every 30 minutes for as long as we want

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+1 and I asked for this myself so many times already and go the usual "I did it the hard way you should do"

 

Guys, meditation is already to far based on an actual unavoidable timesink, why make it even worse?

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-1

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18 hours ago, MrGARY said:

this is more of a replacement than just "qol"

 

qol would be remove requirement to meditate in a different spot to gain skill and remove the 3 hr timer, let us meditate every 30 minutes for as long as we want

This 100%. Dumbest thing to have to run between locations.  How would mining work if it had a similar mechanic?  Between mining actions, you have to run outside for a breath of fresh air, or your next swing of the pick produces nothing?

 

I also agree that going a full day with no results is bogus.  But what if you made meditation ALWAYS produce a result of another kind, so you at least feel some benefit while waiting for that elusive skill tick?  We have all those new food bars to play with.  Since meditation has always had mysticism around eliminating the need to eat or drink (yes, like the refresh on PoL), we could make small ticks on the 4 new food bars.  Not enough to replace the new cooking, but a way to enhance it and feel good about taking time to meditate with no skill gains.

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21 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

This 100%. Dumbest thing to have to run between locations.  How would mining work if it had a similar mechanic?  Between mining actions, you have to run outside for a breath of fresh air, or your next swing of the pick produces nothing?

That's similar to how prospecting works, as you grind the skill by analyzing ore.. afaik.. ~2-3 ores per tile, in between several tiles.. is the way to go.. also have to be fresh ore.. else you just cant get any skill:wacko:<_<

(it's not like people can't go to a huge mine... and prospect every tile in a row... and start over... to grind the skill but... yea.. all that movement around </3

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