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Etherdrifter

4 Years - 1 Spell

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Posted (edited)

Spell: Create Woodscrap

Creates 3-5 woodscrap for those who cannot cut trees or dig fuel and just convenient for the others. As far as I know all priests can turn scrap into kindling, so lighting the fire shouldn't be an issue once they have the fuel. For extra flavor, have each god create a specific type of "impossible" woodscrap (rose, lavender, etc.)

 

A favor cost of 25 and difficulty or 5 or 10 would put it immediate reach of new priests.

Edited by Darmalus
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I would say 30 favor and diff 10 so it cannot be used to grind channeling reliably. Other options would still be better.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Wargasm said:

What we have here is two people with different opinions about the self sustainability of priests.  Neither of you is going to convince the other that you are right, so can we cut the crap?

 

Simple truth is, if all priests had restrictions lifted, could build their own houses, do alchemy and jewelry smithing and whatever other dumb excuse you guys can come up with..... everyone and I mean EVERYONE would be a priest.... so what's the point?

 

It's not "quality of life" it is character homogenization, and a complete game changer which I oppose.

 

Nobody asked for all restrictions to be lifted and to allow priests to do everything that other players do.

 

And about everyone being a priest, look at it the other way, there are very few players that main priests, and most who do or have in the past will agree that its not viable to solo it.   While Ether made the thread to fix priests by giving them more spells, I think that the fix for priests lies within the mechanics of what they can do.

 

If you read the thread, you will see all the options people brought forth, and none of those were "lift the restrictions".

Edited by luvable
Inappropriate wording

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Well, that's the only way to main a priest, is by lifting the restrictions.  Let them build houses, let them chop wood (even Fo priests) etc.

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6 hours ago, Wargasm said:

So we're turning priests into World of Warcraft talent trees?  no thanks...

I knew somebody would say that, so i specifically said "Yes skill trees are in plenty of other games, but its there for a reason... they work <.<." in the beginning of the 2nd paragraph. Yet im still surprised somebody made made that response after what i stated. Anywho do you actually enjoy the idea of being locked down and having no freedom in the spells you choose in a sandbox game? I used to promote teamwork heavily in wurm, but people are becoming more and more unreliable. Leaving at sudden moments because of boring grinds, lack of activites, something called life. And needing to pay for a crafter and several priest to get specific spells that you want is annoying (even depriesting to get a chance to use other spells). With that being said, i believe in giving 1 player a chance to unlock the majority of what he/she wants by getting 1 priest and crafter, without having complete access to everything.

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3 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Well, that's the only way to main a priest, is by lifting the restrictions.  Let them build houses, let them chop wood (even Fo priests) etc.

 

I have to disagree.

 

As I said in a dev chat, priests as they stand right now are not a realistic play style or choice to main. Not without serious support, which you may find but in the larger majority, no.

 

Rather than down the opinions being presented, could you offer some constructed thoughts on what could make them viable and yet balanced so it's a choice and not just another add-on for a main? That's really what we want to avoid. Priests should not be like a meditation path, where you just add it to your existing character. It should be a choice with both benefits and consequences, and the hope is they will work to balance the experience to make it an enjoyable choice for people who want something different.

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1 minute ago, Keenan said:

 

I have to disagree.

 

As I said in a dev chat, priests as they stand right now are not a realistic play style or choice to main. Not without serious support, which you may find but in the larger majority, no.

 

Rather than down the opinions being presented, could you offer some constructed thoughts on what could make them viable and yet balanced so it's a choice and not just another add-on for a main? That's really what we want to avoid. Priests should not be like a meditation path, where you just add it to your existing character. It should be a choice with both benefits and consequences, and the hope is they will work to balance the experience to make it an enjoyable choice for people who want something different.

 

Bah! I forgot to add...

 

There's a lot already going on, but more in a large overview and information gathering. Restrictions have been brought up as something we're willing to work on and change, but I doubt they will go away completely. Perhaps make more sense, but there's literally no actual decisions made on that yet. Not until we have a complete overview of the current system.

 

That said, I'd like people to contribute ideas assuming that everything is fair game. It's not, at least not entirely, but you never know what creative spark may help guide us in what we end up presenting to the community as a plan of action. It's not that we don't have our own ideas as a team, but it always helps to bring in outside influences.

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Posted (edited)

Warning: Wild idea ahead

 

Remove all priest restrictions (except RP based faith loss actions), but make it so they require a certain number of Parishioners for certain spells. A Parishioner is a non-priest premium player who joins the congregation of a priest of the same faith. A player can be a member of a single congregation at a time, with a cooldown for swapping congregations to prevent abuse.

 

So Bless might be a 0 Parishioner spell, Genesis or Cure Light a 1 Parishioner spell while Disintegrate might be a 5 Parishioner spell. Numbers kinda random but its something different, though maybe outside the scope of that the Devs are looking for.

 

Parishoners would probably get some sort of god-specific buff for their service, since they are giving up on the 0 parishioner spells the could get.

Edited by Darmalus

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1 hour ago, Keenan said:

 

I have to disagree.

 

As I said in a dev chat, priests as they stand right now are not a realistic play style or choice to main. Not without serious support, which you may find but in the larger majority, no.

 

Rather than down the opinions being presented, could you offer some constructed thoughts on what could make them viable and yet balanced so it's a choice and not just another add-on for a main? That's really what we want to avoid. Priests should not be like a meditation path, where you just add it to your existing character. It should be a choice with both benefits and consequences, and the hope is they will work to balance the experience to make it an enjoyable choice for people who want something different.

 

You may have misunderstood my post (I was being sarcastic), but I am not in support of any lifting of priest restrictions.

 

If you devs feel obligated to make priests a stand alone character that can do everything, then lord knows we're not going to be able to change your mind.

 

I've made the argument with countless posts in the past.... if you're a priest, and you're doing enchanting, there *should* be restrictions that your character has to live by.  There's no rule that says every character has to be able to do everything, but if that's the case, I'd love for priests not of the Smeagain deity to be viable in PvP again.

 

People that don't have priests buy or trade for CoC/WoA tools.  It's always been that way.

If you main a priest, and you want a house built, you hire a carpenter/mason... it's always been that way.

Priests CAN build houses, they are great crafters for making bricks, mortar and planks, and it does cut the time it takes to build a house from scratch in half.

For anyone that buys their building materials because they are too lazy to make their own, chances are they can afford their own priest/crafter to support their "main".

 

My priest has almost 80 masonry, 53 stonecutting and 50 carpentry... and hasn't built a single house wall in the 4 years I have been playing.  If you want to accomplish more playing *only* a priest.... you need to learn to BARTER with other players, because non-priests aren't stand alone characters either (did you imp your first plate set to 80 ql so you could begin your adventures in the Wurm world?  I didn't think so).

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I'm not sure why pick a type of character that you know is not meant to be a main and then complain about not being able to play it as such, but here is a random idea:

What if instead of losing faith while performing unfaithful actions, we would first lose certain number of favour? The number per action can be discussed, although 1 is probably too low  while 20 is probably too high.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

You may have misunderstood my post (I was being sarcastic), but I am not in support of any lifting of priest restrictions.

 

If you devs feel obligated to make priests a stand alone character that can do everything, then lord knows we're not going to be able to change your mind.

 

I've made the argument with countless posts in the past.... if you're a priest, and you're doing enchanting, there *should* be restrictions that your character has to live by.  There's no rule that says every character has to be able to do everything, but if that's the case, I'd love for priests not of the Smeagain deity to be viable in PvP again.

 

People that don't have priests buy or trade for CoC/WoA tools.  It's always been that way.

If you main a priest, and you want a house built, you hire a carpenter/mason... it's always been that way.

Priests CAN build houses, they are great crafters for making bricks, mortar and planks, and it does cut the time it takes to build a house from scratch in half.

For anyone that buys their building materials because they are too lazy to make their own, chances are they can afford their own priest/crafter to support their "main".

 

My priest has almost 80 masonry, 53 stonecutting and 50 carpentry... and hasn't built a single house wall in the 4 years I have been playing.  If you want to accomplish more playing *only* a priest.... you need to learn to BARTER with other players, because non-priests aren't stand alone characters either (did you imp your first plate set to 80 ql so you could begin your adventures in the Wurm world?  I didn't think so).

 

Non-priest characters are very much stand alone characters, depending on your expectations. 80ql plate mail? No real justification for anything that good anywhere on the non-PvP servers... unless you hunt uniques and that in itself is an unusual expectation in the current paradigm we have now. 80ql is a luxury to be honest. 50ql is sufficient. Got a horse with disease? Groom it and if the horse doesn't heal then kill it and grab another from the wild. If you play the game the way it was in 2008 there is no reason at all for a priest character, no reason for them to exist. It's all about expectations.

 

Barter with other Players... sure no problem, even I have purchased many silvers of tools and weapons from others... but unless you think you need an enchanted tool or weapon... and we don't (and I still prove that by playing without any enchanted anything)... then this whole game could get by with just regular non-priest characters as mains even if every priest in the game suddenly locked up and couldn't be played.

 

But if all the regular non-priest characters suddenly froze up and couldn't be played... and only priest characters remained... then this game would come to a grinding halt since in very short order all them priests, or most, would un-priest and freeze as well.

 

Whether a character is a main or not isn't about what people think it is. People let their expectations for what they want to do with their characters cloud their judgement. Regulars can be mained alone. Priests can not or they un-priest. There's too much a priest can not do in the regular stuff, like continuing and improving for example. That's "bread and butter" gameplay activity that all characters need to be able to do and Priests can't. It's not about what we want to do with our characters (expectations), it's about what we CAN do that matters (baseline facts of the game design).

Edited by geode
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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Darmalus said:

Warning: Wild idea ahead

 

Remove all priest restrictions (except RP based faith loss actions), but make it so they require a certain number of Parishioners for certain spells. A Parishioner is a non-priest premium player who joins the congregation of a priest of the same faith. A player can be a member of a single congregation at a time, with a cooldown for swapping congregations to prevent abuse.

 

So Bless might be a 0 Parishioner spell, Genesis or Cure Light a 1 Parishioner spell while Disintegrate might be a 5 Parishioner spell. Numbers kinda random but its something different, though maybe outside the scope of that the Devs are looking for.

 

Parishoners would probably get some sort of god-specific buff for their service, since they are giving up on the 0 parishioner spells the could get.

Terrible idea..... this ONLY favors people with hoards of prem chars... anybody else is going to have to ANNOY their friends and neighbors calling them to be able to cast a useful spell.. and the same thing backwards.. you'll have to go and stand around as a 'link' while somebody does his/her job.

I cant think of something more boring than this.. and I used to bother a AH char to examine my horses when I was a nub at that skill.... I could see how I was pissing off that person either going to him or asking him to come by.

 

 

10 hours ago, Wargasm said:

If you devs feel obligated to make priests a stand alone character that can do everything, then lord knows we're not going to be able to change your mind.

We'll all be some sort of priests.. and kill the market.. as your neighbors are going to be some kind of a priest, you'll be some kind of a priest(various deities..), no need to trade with anybody.. when you could ask person next to you to do 1 action and solve problems on the spot.

R.I.P. enchanting market?:huh:

That is what no limitations or a lot less limitations means, everybody is going to dip into that 30+ faith and cast to ease their work.

 

@Keenannvm.. I thought you meant new spells or mixes should always be some sort of variation of the founding 4 deities and their spell tables, obviously not, there's room for creativity, etc.. anyway nevermind.

 

2 hours ago, zigozag said:

I'm not sure why pick a type of character that you know is not meant to be a main and then complain about not being able to play it as such, but here is a random idea:

What if instead of losing faith while performing unfaithful actions, we would first lose certain number of favour? The number per action can be discussed, although 1 is probably too low  while 20 is probably too high.

Favour is NOTHING, you work with that every day, etc.. it also regenerates on it's own or comes for free from prayers by chance in chunks of 10.00 favour.

If anything.. when you enchant items you burn favour in the amount of thousands, anything limited with that is no limitation at all.
Initial favor also regenerates on it's own at quite fast rate..


 

1 hour ago, geode said:

 

Non-priest characters are very much stand alone characters, depending on your expectations. 80ql plate mail? No real justification for anything that good anywhere on the non-PvP servers in... unless you hunt uniques and that in itself is an unusual expectation in the current paradigm we have now. 80ql is a luxury to be honest. 50ql is sufficient. Got a horse with disease? Groom it and if the horse doesn't heal then kill it and grab another from the wild. If you play the game the way it was in 2008 there is no reason at all for a priest character, no reason for them to exist. It's all about expectations.
 

Barter with other Players... sure no problem, even I have purchased many silvers of tools and weapons from others... but unless you think you need an enchanted tool or weapon... and we don't (and I still prove that by playing without any enchanted anything)... then this whole game could get by with just regular non-priest characters as mains even if every priest in the game suddenly locked up and couldn't be played.

 

But if all the regular non-priest characters suddenly froze up and couldn't be played... and only priest characters remained... then this game would come to a grinding halt since in very short order all them priests, or most, would un-priest and freeze as well.

 

Whether a character is a main or not isn't about what people think it is. People let their expectations for what they want to do with their characters cloud their judgement. Regulars can be mained alone. Priests can not or they un-priest. There's too much a priest can not do in the regular stuff, like continuing and improving for example. That's "bread and butter" gameplay activity that all characters need to be able to do and Priests can't. It's not about what we want to do with our characters (expectations), it's about what we CAN do that matters (baseline facts of the game design).

Anything under 80 is useless when it comes to fighting dragons or uniques, and people love going to these when they could.

Fighting trolls? 70ql is decent but 80 is still easy to get, find, buy, ... 90/+ could be ####### ######## ######### ##########

(I dont want to explain that on purpose to not tickle a market, but there's a reason ql80 is a the magic spot for tools and casts for many..)

ql80 is not a luxury. 

horse problems? only way to fix a corrupted horse - find a priest, only way to fix a bad trait? - FIND A PRIEST... BUT BUT BUT.. I'm 99.9999999 Animal Husbandry?? FIND A PRIEST NOOB!(Am I right or am I right?); your example geode... having a diseased animals... usually well fed and groomed, separated from other diseased cures it - yes, but takes 1 to several days, you cant just replace a horse... anything under 5 speed is slow as ...........; nobody that have a choice ever uses anything less than that. Getting a new horse in the same example with bad traits... without fixing it with a priest could mean month/s(NOT KIDDING.. if you use just 1 pair to breed, it could easily take that long, along with other mess in AH skill)

There's always going to be somebody to fill the priest niche.. no idea what you're talking about, @Wargasmexplained how bulk goods are one of the powers priests could rule, and the other is casting, both are KING & QUEEN in this game's market.. and sell much more often and in much bigger quantities than any ql90-80 etc... tools. Not to mention ql90-80 arent that useful w/o some kind of a cast on them and that often makes people go to shops who sell the whole gig at one place or already imped/enchanted and with a price tag.. saves the buyer time to buy a tool, than risk with a cast, mail things around, wait, deal with different people and pricings...

 

1 hour ago, geode said:

There's too much a priest can not do in the regular stuff, like continuing and improving for example.

I'd be a priest if I could do that 2... there's no limits to what I could do and I'd be free to do all!

 

 

@geodeIf you truly believe in your ending... talk about the problems.. and possible solutions to just that, ofc.. improvements.., but rethink what happens with your 'class' once it's not so special and everybody could be what you are, how are you going to be special and needed or wanted for anything?

Edited by Finnn

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37 minutes ago, Finnn said:

when you enchant items you burn favour in the amount of thousands, anything limited with that is no limitation at all

No, it's just about numbers.

 

Essentially this is pretty much what OP was asking for, but in a simpler way: instead of casting new spells to perform certain otherwise restricted actions you just spend favour directly on those actions themselves. Some actions, like improving, for instance, can still stay restricted, but everything beyond this is simply a matter of numbers. Natural favour regen and that from prayers are too small to count. Let's say you needed around 200 favour in total to make mats and build a stone altar. In case you're in the wild it's is worth a couple good gems or a whole field of cattle.

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I'd rather have priests build altars w/o penalties.. than torture them:rolleyes:

Idea was to make their life easier not to go trough all floors of hell.

(I'm not joking.. just when it doesn't come to dipping into the other 'class's' business, no harm done, just a problem gets solved.

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

I'd rather have priests build altars w/o penalties.. than torture them:rolleyes:

Idea was to make their life easier not to go trough all floors of hell.

(I'm not joking.. just when it doesn't come to dipping into the other 'class's' business, no harm done, just a problem gets solved.

 

Finn, just imagine if any action you made that isnt specifically shipbuilding, decreases a random ammount of your shipbuilding skill.  You most of all should understand that a viable main character should be able to do some basic chores for itself, since not everyone can get along with a community to babysit them.

 

And please stop comparing enchanted weapons and other superfluous bonuses to BASIC SURVIVAL, it is tired, everyone has already explained you why they dont equate, please drop it.

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10 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

 

Finn, just imagine if any action you made that isnt specifically shipbuilding, *snip*

 

Wait, your priest can only channel?  Damn, no wonder you can't handle basic survival.

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The idea is not to allow priests to do all actions. That would render non priests redundant. The idea is to be able to make basic survival actions, or basic class-necesary actions: being able to light a forge, being able to make your own altar and statuette, etc. 

 

I have to agree that a priest shouldnt be a solo class. Priests are not meant to go at it alone: they do sermons, take confessions, do group spells. But they shouldnt be locked away from their spells because they threw their statuette at an enemy because they forgot to click the ranged button off after using their bow.

 

Being able to use your priest as a main should be a thing, even if I does away with all creature comforts. Currently it isnt.

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"Basic survival" does not entail being able to build a house.  I'm sorry, but it doesn't.  I stand firmly on this issue because if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.  There is no way to allow full functionality as a main without lifting priest restrictions, and restrictions, I feel, should not be lifted.  Therefore, someone is always going to complain that they can't enjoy the game to the fullest as a priest.

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Adding in some extra forms of magical crafting might be a good way to go; give priests their own useful items to create and sell on.  Personally, I think that some form of scroll crafting skill would be a nice touch...

 

Three simple harvest spells:

 

Scoop : Costs 20 favor, 20 diff, digs down on caster's location, product QL based on caster digging (Lib, Vyn, Mag)

Mineral Draw : Costs 30 favor, 20 diff, performs a single mining action on a tile, product QL based on caster mining (Vyn, Fo).

Holy Axe : Costs 40 favor, 20 diff, chops down a tree or bush and turns it into logs if possible, product QL based on caster woodcutting (Mag, Lib, Fo).

 

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I'd go with 10-15diff to kill the channeling, unless devs want to let these viable for 30-50 skill grind else +1

19 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Adding in some extra forms of magical crafting might be a good way to go; give priests their own useful items to create and sell on.  Personally, I think that some form of scroll crafting skill would be a nice touch...

 

Three simple harvest spells:

 

Scoop : Costs 20 favor, 20 diff, digs down on caster's location, product QL based on caster digging (Lib, Vyn, Mag)

Mineral Draw : Costs 30 favor, 20 diff, performs a single mining action on a tile, product QL based on caster mining (Vyn, Fo).

Holy Axe : Costs 40 favor, 20 diff, chops down a tree or bush and turns it into logs if possible, product QL based on caster woodcutting (Mag, Lib, Fo).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

"Basic survival" does not entail being able to build a house.  I'm sorry, but it doesn't.  I stand firmly on this issue because if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.  There is no way to allow full functionality as a main without lifting priest restrictions, and restrictions, I feel, should not be lifted.  Therefore, someone is always going to complain that they can't enjoy the game to the fullest as a priest.

No one is saying they should be able to build a house. In the beginning of the discussion shelter was mentioned, but it was agreed that is not a good idea.

 

And there is plenty ways to make a priest more attractive as a main without lifting restrictions. That is what the discussion is about. Even Finnn just agreed on a solution there, so its possible. Being negative Nancy about it doesn't help. Maybe give options instead of saying it isnt possible.

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4 hours ago, Wargasm said:

"Basic survival" does not entail being able to build a house.  I'm sorry, but it doesn't.  I stand firmly on this issue because if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.  There is no way to allow full functionality as a main without lifting priest restrictions, and restrictions, I feel, should not be lifted.  Therefore, someone is always going to complain that they can't enjoy the game to the fullest as a priest.

I simply cannot understand this. Why not build a house? If someone decides to have a priest for his/her main, he can simply have a free alt to build his house. You don't even have to prem the alt to build a simple house. Sure, you'll jump saying that since that is the case. then the whole thread has no point, but I'll ask you why? Why should a priest main has to make a free alt just to accomplish even mundane tasks? You know how unattractive is that for new players? You simply add a level of complexity that has no reason at all. Just give the priest the same abilities a free alt has. Why force someone to have 2 clients open, just to play one toon?

 

You say you don't like easing the restrictions because you like to force people to barter. Well, why stop there? Make gathering and crafting skills incompatible with each other for everybody. If you can mine then you cannot cut stone. You'll get a great demand for barter all over the place, or maybe server populations rage-quiting. But you will promote barter after all.

 

Btw, who is "them"?

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Erlindur said:

I simply cannot understand this. Why not build a house? If someone decides to have a priest for his/her main, he can simply have a free alt to build his house. You don't even have to prem the alt to build a simple house. Sure, you'll jump saying that since that is the case. then the whole thread has no point, but I'll ask you why? Why should a priest main has to make a free alt just to accomplish even mundane tasks? You know how unattractive is that for new players? You simply add a level of complexity that has no reason at all. Just give the priest the same abilities a free alt has. Why force someone to have 2 clients open, just to play one toon?

 

You say you don't like easing the restrictions because you like to force people to barter. Well, why stop there? Make gathering and crafting skills incompatible with each other for everybody. If you can mine then you cannot cut stone. You'll get a great demand for barter all over the place, or maybe server populations rage-quiting. But you will promote barter after all.

 

Btw, who is "them"?

 

 

He's got a point. I never thought of this myself.

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free alts are locked at 20.00,

some priests grind specific skills to 90/+ for specific purposes..

you want to lower their extra special skills to 20?

 

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I think he meant the ability to craft or continue. Anything not available to any character with 20 skill would not be available to them.

 

The idea is not viable because it would require serious tweaking of current system mechanics, but its something to think about. I still wouldnt give a priest the ability to make a house, or make a rowboat, but its a new perspective. If a free alt can do it, whats the point of restricting a priest then, if they can just make a free alt to overcome it?

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