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Aeryck

Should the merchant and trading system be improved?

Better Trade?  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see Wurms trading system "modernized"?

    • Yes, do something to make it like most other MMOs
      19
    • No, I like it just the way it is
      3
    • Keep the current system but just improve the interface (mail history, merchant ledger, bank balance sheet)
      38


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1 hour ago, Nordlys said:

In the rather "standard wow"-type of auction house, yes.

What about a Wurmifised local marketplace auction house?

 

Enter item name, hit enter, sort by price, buy cheapest? What is appealing about that? That would be another layer of social interaction removed.

 

We should be looking for options to increase interaction, not remove it. Old-style market places provided that interaction (due to travel and the people you encounter on such travel), but any kind of automated system that removes the need to talk to people at all is a step in the wrong direction.

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1 hour ago, Delakar said:

 

Enter item name, hit enter, sort by price, buy cheapest? What is appealing about that? That would be another layer of social interaction removed.

 

We should be looking for options to increase interaction, not remove it. Old-style market places provided that interaction (due to travel and the people you encounter on such travel), but any kind of automated system that removes the need to talk to people at all is a step in the wrong direction.

 

It is so funny to me that you posted this. I read your post before I saw who posted it, and I was thinking of you when I read your words :)

 

I whole heartedly agree with your comments.  I enjoy the lack of central marketplaces in Wurm, and the corresponding socialization that the current system enforces. 

 

I voted for the third option because I wouldn't mind seeing mail logs, bank logs, etc. - more data to help me understand my habits and remember past sellers/buyers/transactions.

Edited by Finndar

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3 hours ago, Delakar said:

 

Enter item name, hit enter, sort by price, buy cheapest? What is appealing about that? That would be another layer of social interaction removed.

 

We should be looking for options to increase interaction, not remove it. Old-style market places provided that interaction (due to travel and the people you encounter on such travel), but any kind of automated system that removes the need to talk to people at all is a step in the wrong direction.

I was trying to make a point that of people tend to think about exactly what you write when someone mentions "auction house". Thats why i wrote "Wurmifised local marketplace auction house?"

I dont understand why we cannot be creative and make our own ideas on how we want it in Wurm. I dont want an generic "wow-style" auction house - i want something unique that takes care of the things we like about Wurm, but at the same time makes trading (and merchanting) better.

Edited by Nordlys

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EVE Online is the gold standard for trade houses for sandbox games, now also emulated in games like DarkFall New Dawn.

Wurm already blew it as a sandbox economy though because Wurm allows most trade items to be mailed, thus removing the sandbox element of distance and the choices that gives you as a player. 

 

In other words, the ideal solution for an actual sandbox game is to have regional auction houses, so you actively choose which auction house to go either for selling or for browsing/buying. Why is this the sandbox ideal? Because it allows for 1) everyone to try to have some succes as a crafter in their own right and be the known crafter for that little region, without being thrashed by the competition from every other crafter in the universe, and 2) opens the profession of trader, transporting goods between regions, making both sellers and buyers happier.

 

Alas, it can never happen in this game anymore. Every crafter in Wurm starts by making stupid little mallets to his friends and neighbours. This makes the budding crafter incredible happy and his neighbours somewhat embarassed :)  The next natural step would of course be a mechanism that allowed our crafting hero to sell his items to the enlarged neighbourhood that is a region. We have needed that mechanism always in Wurm, but instead we got the "everything-can-be-instamailed-from-mr.-top-crafter-who-played-since-2006-at-a-ridiculously-low-price-so-why-would-anyone-buy-anything-from-you" mechanism. 

 

Edited by Cista
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3 hours ago, Cista said:

EVE Online is the gold standard for trade houses for sandbox games, now also emulated in games like DarkFall New Dawn.

Wurm already blew it as a sandbox economy though because Wurm allows most trade items to be mailed, thus removing the sandbox element of distance and the choices that gives you as a player. 

 

In other words, the ideal solution for an actual sandbox game is to have regional auction houses, so you actively choose which auction house to go either for selling or for browsing/buying. Why is this the sandbox ideal? Because it allows for 1) everyone to try to have some succes as a crafter in their own right and be the known crafter for that little region, without being thrashed by the competition from every other crafter in the universe, and 2) opens the profession of trader, transporting goods between regions, making both sellers and buyers happier.

 

Alas, it can never happen in this game anymore. Every crafter in Wurm starts by making stupid little mallets to his friends and neighbours. This makes the budding crafter incredible happy and his neighbours somewhat embarassed :)  The next natural step would of course be a mechanism that allowed our crafting hero to sell his items to the enlarged neighbourhood that is a region. We have needed that mechanism always in Wurm, but instead we got the "everything-can-be-instamailed-from-mr.-top-crafter-who-played-since-2006-at-a-ridiculously-low-price-so-why-would-anyone-buy-anything-from-you" mechanism. 

 

 

I cannot comment on EVE's system, but other than that, this perspective resonates with me. And I agree, it cannot/will not happen in wurm anymore. On the contrary, the direction for years has been to make it travel-free or no-time-needed as much as possible. At some point, I found interesting how Pristine/Release, after connection, were connected via a freaking long Xanadu south/north sides. It was a pain, to be sure, but a pain which, I hope, may have helped P/R to prefer local markets. And if that is only vane hope, still, I actually find that P/R has developed a 'local is important' mentality in some respects, and I like that.

Personally, I still choose or try to choose intently to buy/imp from local players, where local means server, simply because I care about supporting the local economy. That only happens however in a few particular cases, periodic cases (like weapons imps), and not on most other cases.

 

Back on topic, I voted the 3rd option. We do need some logs of transactions, mails, an ability to search 'whom did I mail this thing and for what money', as well as 'from where did I receive this thing and for what money'. Maybe also for player-to-player trades, which currently say nothing in event tab than "transaction was successful". Why not log items that were exchanged? Also, for player-to-merchant trades, both for merchants (so for the seller), and for the buyer. This one is better now for the buyer, I can and do 'force' a full log of what happened when I buy from a merchant, by examining the merchant, and the item, then make the deal. The system logs how much money the merchant requests, so I get somehow full information. It would still be nice if, when the transaction is completed, it logs a simple summary though, like "you buy x for y silver from z merchant'.

 

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The results and comments from this poll are very interesting. I sort of suspected that people actually liked the simple nature of trade in wurm, but I didn't think it would be so ubiquitous. I think I have actually changed my opinion after reading lots of comments that say basically, "we like that it is smaller and more personal. This is not WoW or EVE."

 

i hope we see a UI improvement and additions like ledger and mail upgrade.

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I can't agree that any kind of universal auction house type system is a gold standard at all (I don't know the eve system so not referring that, just in-game universal auctions in general).  Call me old fashioned, but to me the gold standard was the old UO system. I'm speaking for myself of course.   Combining the general feel of the UO system with our marketplaces that players create, would be ideal for me.  Of course that would be hindered by travel being completely different from UO so probably isn't practical and most likely will never happen because it would require something along the lines of some of my heretical ideas and opinions on marketplace portals and such, and is another topic entirely, so I won't even go there right now.  :)

Edited by Amadee

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Trade definitely needs to be kept localized. However I think the interface could certainly be improved. An example could be some form of Trade hub NPC/Object, that allows you to view the inventory of all merchants in the nearby area (100 tile radius?) along with at least some search functions. Of course along with the option to just browse everything too.

 

 

But this should still be something for players to place, this would keep the player made markets but improve the interaction with them.

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I voted number 1, not because i believe an auction house like most mmorpg would be the best thing for wurm, but because my sanity could gain from it, and the revamp should probably be something in the middle, like traders that work at a distance, or something of the sort

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