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Fairyshine

Botanizing skill gain please revisit

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Since woad and acorn ql are linked to foraging/botanizing skill levels, people have been trying to raise these skills.  Turns out that bugged chars can never get a botanizing affinity meal, so for these people it remains forever slow and tedious as there is also no tool you can coc to even make skillgain slightly higher.  Furthermore, you have to move the char after an action on a tile, and hope the tile is not picked clean, else it is a non tick tile. PLEASE revisit the rate at which we gain skill for foraging and botanizing.  Make a drink we brew to drink and get an hour of affinity for it, or some tool we can coc or something, or fix bugged chars so they can at least get an affinity for a period of time for botanizing...please help people who would like higher ql woad and acorns out.  Would be greatly appreciated :) 

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Tbh i would much more like to have channeling affinity out of my meals for my priest who is bugged. But yea, this whole "some chars are bugged" thingy is rather irritating.

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100% agree the affinity for characters needs fixed, but also so does botany and forage, either more skillgain or fix tiles so 50% arnt already picked clean in the middle of nowhere >.>

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There were 2 other ideas.. woad-planters.. and gloves+cast for pottery.... if woad cant be cultivated in planters... I guess... go for my idea with rings and coc casts affecting certain skills that were always taboo for any kind of skill bonus... foraging/botanizing/tracking/... maybe fishing could use some more love, etc etc...

 

gl +1

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No reason that coc on statuete doesn't have effect on chanelling grind too tbh. I agree on coc gloves or rings for botanazing/tracking/potery etc

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they could just bring back the "bug" they fixed just recently, maybe nerf it by a little bit, but it ACTUALLY made foraging/botanizing/forestry/milking grindable skills.

On 9.2.2017 at 3:07 PM, DevBlog said:

Bugfix: The changes in 1.3 to multiple harvests depending on skill and age for Forestry and Milking were affected by a bug that increased skillgain per harvest exponentially per tick during one action, this has been rectified and the skillgain per tick will be the same across the whole action. This fix also affects Botanizing as that is where the original bug was.

 

is the one im talking about, fix was announced in these patch notes:

 

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1 hour ago, Arium said:

they could just bring back the "bug" they fixed just recently, maybe nerf it by a little bit, but it ACTUALLY made foraging/botanizing/forestry/milking grindable skills.

going from 10 to 90 forestry in a matter of days is not "grindable", it's broken, and needed to be addressed.

 

And this is a mess of different suggestions.

 

Let's break it down:

Address affinity issues - Not all "bugged" characters have x affinity missing, so it's a bit misleading there. The affinity issue is being addressed but we need to identify a way that does not ruin everyones work, simply addressing rare cookers was met with disapproval, being told everythings being regenerated now is obviously not ideal, so we need to work on that.

 

improve botanizing skillgains - botanizing and forestry skillgains are on par with most skills.

 

Add a tool that allows botanizing and foraging to have a coc enchant. This one makes the most sense and has been raised, though I do have to wonder if  having a tool ql would affect optimal skillgain and require more work there, but its inconsequential. (And add more coc to fishing? what?)

 

Have coc on a statuette affect channelling - Statuette ql doesnt affect channelling, so again, no tool is referenced.

 

add woad planters - already raised

 

Trust me, even with an affinity or two, botanizing and foraging is slow, and that's due to not having an enchanted tool. It has been raised, but of course comes with its own issues that require checking, so I have no clue if/when it will be addressed.

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We can already put coc on our fishing poles.  I'd love for woa to affect the fishing timer though if we are just throwing out suggestions.

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1 minute ago, Pashka said:

We can already put coc on our fishing poles.  I'd love for woa to affect the fishing timer though if we are just throwing out suggestions.

the full action isnt 2 minutes though, that would just halve the timer but also halve the chance of catching

 

its not action > 2 minutes > fish

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26 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Address affinity issues - Not all "bugged" characters have x affinity missing, so it's a bit misleading there. The affinity issue is being addressed but we need to identify a way that does not ruin everyones work, simply addressing rare cookers was met with disapproval, being told everythings being regenerated now is obviously not ideal, so we need to work on that.

Do you know if the missing affinities counts for all types of food and drink? Its really nice if youre working on it tho. :)

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Sorry to say but a solid +1 from me.

 

Whoever considers the current skillgain balanced evidently isn't trying to grind the gap between 69 and 70.

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32 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

going from 10 to 90 forestry in a matter of days is not "grindable", it's broken, and needed to be addressed.

 

And this is a mess of different suggestions.

 

Let's break it down:

Address affinity issues - Not all "bugged" characters have x affinity missing, so it's a bit misleading there. The affinity issue is being addressed but we need to identify a way that does not ruin everyones work, simply addressing rare cookers was met with disapproval, being told everythings being regenerated now is obviously not ideal, so we need to work on that.

 

improve botanizing skillgains - botanizing and forestry skillgains are on par with most skills.

 

Add a tool that allows botanizing and foraging to have a coc enchant. This one makes the most sense and has been raised, though I do have to wonder if  having a tool ql would affect optimal skillgain and require more work there, but its inconsequential. (And add more coc to fishing? what?)

 

Have coc on a statuette affect channelling - Statuette ql doesnt affect channelling, so again, no tool is referenced.

 

add woad planters - already raised

 

Trust me, even with an affinity or two, botanizing and foraging is slow, and that's due to not having an enchanted tool. It has been raised, but of course comes with its own issues that require checking, so I have no clue if/when it will be addressed.

 

Perhaps you could just treat it the way forestry is treated. Keeping the tool QL about 5 QL above your skill. Nice to see woad planters actually being raised as an issue (thanks!)

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

 

Have coc on a statuette affect channelling - Statuette ql doesnt affect channelling, so again, no tool is referenced.

 

Well maybe it should affect it. Skill grinding is very unballanced and different from skill group to skill group, not sure what's the reason for that. But it's not logical to me that some stuff require(allow you) to invest in better ql tools and enchants in order to get better results and other stuff doesn't.

Rarity of stattuete should help casting, but it doesnt as far as i know which is also dissapointing

Edited by kochinac

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Channel skill grind is far easier than many other grinds in my opinion.  Yes I have 95 skill in it.  So while they may not have made coc have any effect on it, I'm guessing that is something Rolf took into account somewhere in the skill gain.

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I did botanizing to a high level and 90% of it was without Sb or affinity meals, Its how much you want to do it like any other skill. Seems the overall  theme lately is to make the game easier to skill period.

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

going from 10 to 90 forestry in a matter of days is not "grindable", it's broken, and needed to be addressed

Take into account that the latest change to these gathering subskills of Nature branch rendered lower skill levels absolutely useless. Now you have to grind, but before it wasn't necessary, you'd eventually get enough high quality product with certain amount of effort at any skill level.

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2 hours ago, Subie said:

I did botanizing to a high level and 90% of it was without Sb or affinity meals, Its how much you want to do it like any other skill. Seems the overall  theme lately is to make the game easier to skill period.

 

Were you grinding when the skillgain was broken?  It surely seems to me that people who did it during any period of that time now has the benefit of high skill (as obviously, those who benefited from the unbalanced and exponential gain did not lose their skill when the bug was fixed).  I would really like to see this issue addressed and not be berated by those with such higher skill as I am just trying to catch up or just getting reasonable skill myself.  Would it matter to those with higher skill if lower skill chars get some skill too?  I know a few of my mining friends, and those who spent time grinding woodcutting, even farming or anything gathered by a sickle, was initially miffed that we can add a rune or imbue to the tool and get up to 100 ql of the resource, however, now they are fine with it as it is clear that just gathering high ql mats is of no use unless you do something else (imp stuff, mix dye, etc).  

 

The point is for those skills and for most others, there is a way to help people get a higher ql resource so they can enjoy the game.  This is not true for botanizing/forestry.  A lot of tiles are picked clean when there have been no animal in the vicinity and the tiles have not been picked for weeks (it is inside fenced areas on a deed with one person access only).  I am bugged and can't get a botanizing affin meal.  And skillgain is patently slow with no coc, you have to move all the time, and the mats are always low ql due to no rune/imbue yet the mat ql is tied to skill level...

 

Retro, if I understand you correctly, the bug with certain characters is due to taking away the variation to do with rare containers?  If this is the case, how would changing it back so rare containers affect the affinity affect the non bugged characters?

 

I agree with Zigozag, the variety of woad surely was a great support to those who like mixing dye.  Having it explicitly linked to skill level is what broke it.

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My priest has 85 forestry.  I had 80ish before the broken skillgain period happened.  I don't have a log to know how much over 80 I did have.  It is very much possible to do.  I used to have a tree garden.  It was my spot to relax.  I pruned/sprouted every tree bush in there at least once per week.  This allowed me to harvest what I had planted in there when they were available as they never went to overaged or shriveled.  There are additional ways to work on gardening now that were not available back in the day.  I'm not saying anything should change or not be changed.  Just saying that there are people that had nice skill before the bug happened.  I know I'm not the only one.

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On 4/14/2017 at 6:36 PM, Retrograde said:

improve botanizing skillgains - botanizing and forestry skillgains are on par with most skills.

'on par' wut? how can you compare botanizing and forestry? they are completely different.........

foraging/botanizing gives ticks on found items or after timer of the action ends, you can not enchant anything atm afaik, only 2 ways to get any better skill gain is to use 1) sleep bonus, 2) food affinity, 3) rift rings/amulets/etc..(these are ....... rare and hard to get enough of),

** maybe 4th) to lower stamina, which makes the action take longer time.. even if that boosts skillgains.. I'd rather never use extra time with this skill(can't even say the extra time adds skill bonus; anyone to confirm?)

 

forestry.. there's 1) sleep bonus, 2) sickle + coc/botd, 3) runes for exp?, 4) stamina stretching, 5) plenty of trees/hedges to prune / fruit trees and bushes to harvest for skill

 

I'd say there's 2 items boosting foraging/botanizing vs 4-5 for forestry. 

 

 

On 4/14/2017 at 6:36 PM, Retrograde said:

going from 10 to 90 forestry in a matter of days is not "grindable", it's broken, and needed to be addressed.

for this I agree, if goal for someone is to get 90skill.. it should take 2 to 6 weeks of work and good amount of sb/powders used during that time... (most skills could be grinded to 70-80 in a week, and 80-90 takes 1-2/+ more, IF the player grinds with enchanted tools and sleep bonus*)

Grats to all who abused that... you won the lottery and saved yourselves months of work there. Welcome to pro-league.

 

On 4/14/2017 at 6:36 PM, Retrograde said:

Add a tool that allows botanizing and foraging to have a coc enchant. This one makes the most sense and has been raised, though I do have to wonder if  having a tool ql would affect optimal skillgain and require more work there, but its inconsequential. (And add more coc to fishing? what?)

Why fishing? The new cooking and the holy-Molly-RNG affinity meals... is it possible for some characters to need certain kind of fish for their 'favorite meal'?

How hard is it to catch specific fish?... skill / rng / time;    it's just a meal.. why couldn't that be easier?

*** I never got familiar with the new cooking part... I could be all wrong about this one... but, if I am not, fishing should probably get some love soon

 

edit----

On 4/14/2017 at 8:57 PM, Subie said:

I did botanizing to a high level and 90% of it was without Sb or affinity meals, Its how much you want to do it like any other skill. Seems the overall  theme lately is to make the game easier to skill period.

I agree... making things too easy to get is bad.

 

 

Edited by Finnn

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3 hours ago, Finnn said:

'on par' wut? how can you compare botanizing and forestry? they are completely different.........

 

 

I think some people are confusing foraging with forestry.

 

Bump for revisiting skillgains and product ql which do not use tools yet the mats are linked to the skill level of the char.

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Pruning a mountain doesn't fill you up with stuff.

You can see if a tree can be pruned. You can't see if the next 30 tiles you want to forage are barren.

I can't coc my hand.

 

 

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My bad, I said forestry and not foraging.

 

The issue with them being slow is more related to no enchanted tool, with coc adding up to double skillgain, without an enchanted tool other skills give roughly the same tick size, it's just coc doubling that that slows botanising and foraging down.

 

On 15/04/2017 at 7:05 AM, Fairyshine said:

Retro, if I understand you correctly, the bug with certain characters is due to taking away the variation to do with rare containers?  If this is the case, how would changing it back so rare containers affect the affinity affect the non bugged characters?

No, rarity affects affinities still, and even removing that would not change people being affected. It lies in the mechanics of receiving the affinity based on several factors. The easy way is to change how affinities are generated, but that also comes at the cost of everyone losing what affinities they have researched, so is obviously not something we want to do.(We managed to address the issue prior to it going live in WU, so we know the new system works, it just inst ideal to replace the existing one)

 

We do have some ideas that allow those affected to get new affinities without penalising those who have done plenty of research, and will work towards them over the next few weeks

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7 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

We do have some ideas that allow those affected to get new affinities without penalising those who have done plenty of research, and will work towards them over the next few weeks

Great news!

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7 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

My bad, I said forestry and not foraging.

 

The issue with them being slow is more related to no enchanted tool, with coc adding up to double skillgain, without an enchanted tool other skills give roughly the same tick size, it's just coc doubling that that slows botanising and foraging down.

 

No, rarity affects affinities still, and even removing that would not change people being affected. It lies in the mechanics of receiving the affinity based on several factors. The easy way is to change how affinities are generated, but that also comes at the cost of everyone losing what affinities they have researched, so is obviously not something we want to do.(We managed to address the issue prior to it going live in WU, so we know the new system works, it just inst ideal to replace the existing one)

 

We do have some ideas that allow those affected to get new affinities without penalising those who have done plenty of research, and will work towards them over the next few weeks

 

Rarity of container (pan, bowl, cauldron) does not affect affinity does it?  As far as I know the rarity of the oven/forge does, not the rarity of the container the food is cooked in?

 

The other issue is that we also need to be able to imbue/rune the tool so the resulting mats can be of higher ql than our skill, similar to what happens with woodcutting/farming/mining/butchering/any-mat-using-a-tool-that-can-be-runed/imbued.  Obviously this has to do with woad and acorns for dye, which is where the sticking point comes from as they always used to be random ql wheras now they are linked to skill level with no similar way to increase their ql to what we have for logs/ores/veggies etc.

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cooker = oven forge campfire

container = frypan bowl etc

 

rarity of cooker changes affinity, rarity of container does not.

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