Sign in to follow this  
atazs

Is Wurm reaching the capabilities of it's engine?

Recommended Posts

So me and a few others were having a discussion in a Discord channel regarding the implementation of new trees such as pineapple trees and coconut trees as opposed to the current, rather lazy "apple+pine = pineapple" or "cocoa+nut = coconut" approach that were implemented instead. 

Anyway, someone have brought up an interesting point that Wurm is reaching some limitations of it's engine, especially regarding the number of textures rendered and how these are managed.

Is this true? Can a dev confirm this or give some insight into all this? 

 

Could it be finally, time to you know, to hire some non volunteer devs to work on this game after 15+ years of development? Or are the profits really that tiny that you can only still afford volunteers? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As wurm is developed it's capabilities expand, when limits set a long time ago are reached we begin work on expanding those limits.

 

Previously only the original crop tiles were the limit, to add new crops we expanded those limits.

 

And make no mistake, the coconut/pineapple thing was not lazy, it was an actual decision based on having them in the game and how they'd fit, it's a bit of fun, that's all.

 

And just to clarify, we have paid devs that work on the game, while we take help from volunteers there is also a fulltime staff team as well.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think some if not all of the trees could use an update they are such an important part of the visuals in the game that they should be the best they can be. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kegan said:

I do think some if not all of the trees could use an update they are such an important part of the visuals in the game that they should be the best they can be. 

 

I do agree with that 100%,the other day i was lookin at some of  my screenshots archive,lots of thing have changed in wurm the last few years but when you get that first look at a picture with trees,the games looks the same as it was years ago.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well when they put in the new trees the trunks of them are great but the leaf structure is a little bad on them. The older trees like maple need an overhaul for sure and I do like the fullness of the maple but it is just outdated and seems a bit odd in coloring now. 

 

 

Edited by Kegan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kegan said:

Well when they put in the new trees the trunks of them are great but the leaf structure is bad looks like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree, lol   The older trees like maple need an overhaul for sure and I do like the fullness of the maple but it is just outdated and seems a bit odd in coloring now. 

 

There have been changes to them recently, for example the fact that now when you pick up and drop a tree, the model changes to one without leafs, so I do think trees do not go unnoticed.. In general, I believe that at this point trees aren't exactly something that desperately needs an overhaul.. although, as for this topic, I also don't believe that tree models are pushing the limitations of Wurm or its engine. I'm sure that as Wurm progresses, the trees and other models will get their respective overhauls when the time comes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the answer is no, the capabilities have not been reached and with a dev team of two and a half men. It wont be reached anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, atazs said:

rather lazy "apple+pine = pineapple" or "cocoa+nut = coconut" approach that were implemented instead. 

 

 

I actually quite enjoyed the pun behind these 2, almost make me forget my ocd desire to have everything realistic :D A llitle bit of fun like this from time to time is good :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, zukapit said:

the answer is no, the capabilities have not been reached and with a dev team of two and a half men. It wont be reached anytime soon.

Don't forget this is the team that designs the game you play, and they put a lot of love into it. It is the game they play as well. A little appreciation has never killed anyone.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

And just to clarify, we have paid devs that work on the game,

Great, when do they start?

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just hoping for some actual PVM content.. tired of all these container updates for the stay at home peps.. I love this game for the exploring/hunting aspect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, armyskin said:

Great, when do they start?

somebody needs an attitude overhaul..step back everyone.,,,

 

Rolf appears with his GIANT wand and jams it home.. there ya go tit for tat...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Legios said:

I'm just hoping for some actual PVM content.. tired of all these container updates for the stay at home peps.. I love this game for the exploring/hunting aspect

 

here here I am an exploring type too.. why don't we as players pool our collective talents and design something that is worth travelling too or multiple points in a series of stops..we can renrich the experience as much as the devs have power too if npot more as they just create tools for our creativity lets rely on ourselves for content....... >inspiration<

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Psalamon said:

 

here here I am an exploring type too.. why don't we as players pool our collective talents and design something that is worth travelling too or multiple points in a series of stops..we can renrich the experience as much as the devs have power too if npot more as they just create tools for our creativity lets rely on ourselves for content....... >inspiration<

I was referring more to monsters to kill, as far as I know the only valuable mob out there to hunt is dragons and other rare commodity that can't be done alone. It just gets boring to kill the same mobs.. and get the exact same loot... 100% of the time.. I don't even know what to do with all the meat I've collected..
So we can just wait and see, eventually there will be a container made for every single item in the game.. and maybe then more content to kill will become available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Legios said:

I was referring more to monsters to kill, as far as I know the only valuable mob out there to hunt is dragons and other rare commodity that can't be done alone. It just gets boring to kill the same mobs.. and get the exact same loot... 100% of the time.. I don't even know what to do with all the meat I've collected..
So we can just wait and see, eventually there will be a container made for every single item in the game.. and maybe then more content to kill will become available.

This game is a sandbox. If you are looking for shiney loot dropping from pve mobs, then you are in the wrong game. I understand that maybe a new type of monster with a new type of skin that makes a new type of armor is cool, but if you put all your value in the game in what mobs drop or what quests give, you are looking for a theme park, not an sandbox.

 

What makes Wurm be Wurm is that nearly everything comes from a player. Players make the armor, players make the weapons, players make the boats and the wagons, players make the roads and the cities. Players make the dungeons and the castles and the traps and the miles long tunnels and light the areas and trim the trees. Everything in Wurm is made by players, all the way down to the content.

 

The minute Devs start replacing player content with content of their own is the minute that this game starts to die.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that WU uses the same engine, then no, the limits have certainly not been reached, since there are a number of WU mods that have extended the number and types of animals, and items in WU, with no problems of limits, other than the limits of item id's, which just requires extending the item id's.

 

New textures, new animals, new models and new items, all are possible, without breaking anything, at least so far.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Kegan said:

I do think some if not all of the trees could use an update they are such an important part of the visuals in the game that they should be the best they can be. 


+1
it's the most common thing i hear people moan about. far too 2d
Maybe in a year ile turn that into a suggestion thread if no one beats me to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, atazs said:

rather lazy "apple+pine = pineapple" or "cocoa+nut = coconut" approach

 

I'm pretty sure that's a conscious design decision rather than one imposed by limitations.  Personally, I love it - I actually laughed out loud when someone explained where pineapples came from!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pfff people claimed the limits of the engine had been reached before multistory, bridges, and etc were implemented.

 

And now here we are :)

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel honestly if anything needs an overhaul it's the draw distance of trees and terrain. wurm close up with the unstable client looks great nowadays to me but as soon as you look at a faraway hillside and see the trees just stop and a big blurry mass next to it that really kills it. We spend our time on (freedom at least) making mostly amazing places to look at, yet you step 500 tiles away and it's an unrecognisable mess.

 

I seem to remember someone saying at one point that it wasn't feasible using java to have terrain and trees rendered as far as you could see as you would need too many lod models which would kill wurms sub-par performance even more.

 

Is that a limitation of the engine?

Edited by Fraeya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an issue of optimization. I have a pretty damn good PC and lag in Wurm on medium settings, but I can run Arma on high settings in a full lobby and be just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/5/2017 at 10:25 AM, Retrograde said:

And make no mistake, the coconut/pineapple thing was not lazy, it was an actual decision based on having them in the game and how they'd fit, it's a bit of fun, that's all.

 

 

There is no fun in foraging for hours on end to get enough coco beans to make a coconut to make rum.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Klaa said:

Pfff people claimed the limits of the engine had been reached before multistory, bridges, and etc were implemented.

 

And now here we are :)

 

TBH when we hit a limit holding us back from something we really want to do, we just rewrite a whole bunch of code so that limit isn't there anymore. This doesn't happen often though, because when you do that once you get that "oh hell no I'm not making that mistake again" feeling - then a long while later you forget all about it and do it again.

 

1 hour ago, Fraeya said:

I feel honestly if anything needs an overhaul it's the draw distance of trees and terrain. wurm close up with the unstable client looks great nowadays to me but as soon as you look at a faraway hillside and see the trees just stop and a big blurry mass next to it that really kills it. We spend our time on (freedom at least) making mostly amazing places to look at, yet you step 500 tiles away and it's an unrecognisable mess.

 

I seem to remember someone saying at one point that it wasn't feasible using java to have terrain and trees rendered as far as you could see as you would need too many lod models which would kill wurms sub-par performance even more.

 

Is that a limitation of the engine?

 

Nothing to do with Java limitations, if someone says that as an excuse for why X can't be done in Wurm, they're (usually) wrong. For distant trees showing on distant terrain, I've had plans to add this in for a couple of years, at this point its just a matter of getting enough time to do it. There are some neat tricks out there for faking distant trees that wouldn't add much to rendering requirements and still look pretty good that I want to try out, just takes a bit of time to 1. get it working, then 2. make it look nice and blend with the other levels of trees.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only notice graphic lag when I run 5+ clients all on highest settings, I do not have the best nor baddest computer around but I was routinely running 12 clients.

 

my own sermon group and some workers without much issues. with my main at 4k  and my 2nd main toon at 2k, the others were lower res since they just stood around and prayed n preached and ate all my food.

 

I would love to see more detail further away, even if I have to turn down some settings on my alts ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this