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Galatyn

Do NOT join a BL kingdom on Chaos if you are a Vyn, Fo, or Mag priest on Freedom

53 posts in this topic

I'm going to check into this and see if I can get more info.

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Posted (edited)

Simple answer here.

 

If you  are a 100 faith Fo priest on freedom you go to Chaos become a LIb follower. You will always be a 100 Faith Fo follower on freedom as long as you stay Black light and Lib follower.

 

So you are now a Hardcore Lib follower and you want to go back to freedom you cross the border.

Game does Check as you cross to freedom. Lib Follower -100 alignment  -> Not allowed on freedom -> Was FO follower on Freedom -> Allowed had +100 alignment. you are now Fo Priest with restrictions 

Game does check as you cross into Chaos. Fo Follower +100 alighnment -> not allowed in BL kingdom -> was Lib follower on chaos -> Allowed  Had -100 alignment. You are now Lib follower without Crafting restrictions.

 

Now lets say you convert to Lib and you change to a WL Kingdom. Become Fo Follower "Not priest" and you cross back into Freedom.

 

Game does Check as you cross to freedom. Fo Follower +100 Alignment ALLOWED! game takes most recent change of char and saves it to the freedom server you are on. so you are just a follower now Congrats!

 

@Retrograde

 

 

Edited by hemrzz
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22 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I'm going to check into this and see if I can get more info.

 

Thanks Retrograde.  I'm not expecting any change in outcome, but my support ticket was #142095.  Maybe that will help you find some helpful info.

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3 hours ago, Galatyn said:

I still show 82 faith, can pray at a Fo altar, and certain aggressive mobs, like HH, are not aggressive (blue outline).  However, the spell option in the menu no longer appears.  

 

That's 100% a bug. I had that on my WU cluster (that has a HotS and Freedom pve servers).

 

It was kinda the other way around for me (i allow Lib priests on the Freedom server), but the same exact symptoms. Faith>30 and can pray/sac/etc but can't cast. Resetting their faith by a GM would unbug them and they would behave correctly from then on when crossing servers.

 

I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but i ripped out the faith-swapping code in IntraServerConnection.savePlayerToDisk and that stopped the issue altogether, so it must be somewhere there.

 

 

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So I've spoken with the dev team, and those more knowledgeable about the mechanics of this than I, so here goes;

 

The reason it's as intended is the dual faith thing ONLY exists between chaos > freedom and for followers of lib. They aren't separate values, there's just some trickery when following libila as its not allowed on freedom. Swapping from Libila on chaos is the same as changing gods on any other server.

 

if you are a priest on freedom, but follow lib on chaos, you will lose your faith when changing kingdoms or gods just like you would lose it if you changed gods on freedom.

 

the 82 faith is a bug, and we'll be looking at fixing that, but converting out of a BL kingdom as a lib follower will erase your deity and faith on any server, this is how it is intended.

 

If you'd like to be transferred to a follower of any deity the GM team is happy to do so, as per how we handle these cases.

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33 minutes ago, bdew said:

I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but i ripped out the faith-swapping code in IntraServerConnection.savePlayerToDisk and that stopped the issue altogether, so it must be somewhere there.

 

Unfortunately this bug has nothing to do with that code, and I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out whats causing it.

 

Edit: nvm found it

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Wow. I'm going to do some digging on this because for years it was said by gm team that being priest on freedom and follower of lib is allowed because of the restrictions of lib on pve. But now you are saying that it's not. Furthermore you are now also limiting recruits for all BL kingdoms. Thanks very much for the continual destruction of wurm. 

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come again? It's totally allowed.

 

What happens is changing from lib > any other god is the exact same as changing gods on freedom, it will reset your faith.

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

for years it was said by gm team that being priest on freedom and follower of lib is allowed because of the restrictions of lib on pve

 

It is still allowed, nothing changed about that.

 

If you convert to another god on PVP, it will override your faith on PVE, that also hasn't changed.

 

The bug that would (sometimes) make you unable to cast on PVE after switching from Lib on PVP is getting fixed - that's the only change, and it's a good thing.

Edited by bdew
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I guess I may not have been perfectly clear. I understand that the duel values still exists and needs to because lib is chaos only, but my concerns are first it would have been nice to actually know this info so that when recruiting players you aren't lying to them when you tell them nothing will happen to their faith in freedom. Now although nothing does happen to the faith while the player stays BL the moment player leaves to WL for whatever reason their faith does become affected and the recruiter just turned into an ahole.

 

This now known fact also in my opinion offers a lower chance of recruiting players who follow these WL deities on freedom into joining a BL kingdom. 

 

I guess this might be why many people have suggested in the past to have separate faith values between pve and PvP. (Faith values but not Faith( again with the exception of libila))

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Would it not just be ez to Make your faith on choas be that faith and othere on freedom?

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Question:

 

If you get kicked from a BL kingdom, do you automatically reset to HOTS Npc? Or do you become freedom isles and loose your faith? Is there a HOTS "Npc" faction?

 

Pardon my ignorance.

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you become hots and get chance to make hots great again

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That's awesome then. So the conversion to WL has to be a player choice? I think I see what Retrograde means. I don't mean both sides are balanced but it seems that the faith loss is by choice, not forced upon you.

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2 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

That's awesome then. So the conversion to WL has to be a player choice? I think I see what Retrograde means. I don't mean both sides are balanced but it seems that the faith loss is by choice, not forced upon you.

 

Yes, the conversion to WL is player choice. I think it's easy to be short-sighted when your account is less than 5 months old.   Imagine these players can never every change to a WL kingdom in a dynamically changing game.  Are you familiar with kingdom history?  Even in the short 2 1/2 years I've been aware of Chaos, there has been the rise and decline of JK, the rise and fall of MR (as a kingdom on Chaos), the fall of Black Legion, the rise and fall of Macedon, the fall of Gratsalot, and there are probably others.  So, if something happens to cause a player to become auto-converted to HOTs, then they are punished for the rest of their playing life to never play with friends in a WL kingdom, unless they sacrifice their PVE priesthood.  I don't know if you have ever skilled a priest's faith from 0 to 100, but it takes considerable time and effort.  You are correct, though, it is about player choice.  It's just a shame that when a player contemplates choosing a BL or WL kingdom, that this choice has such a significant long-term impact.

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Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Like I said it's not balanced. But it isn't any different than playing Alliance or Horde on WoW, or east vs West in Archage. You choose a faction and you're stuck with it. It's an intended mechanic and not a bug. That's what I mean.

 

Now if you ask me if it's an appropriate mechanic, absolutely not. Wurm doesn't have enough Chaos players to support such division. If one of the two sides takes a dip in numbers, the entire group has to contemplate such a decision as loosing their faith. That's problematic, but not a bug by any stretch.

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12 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Like I said it's not balanced. But it isn't any different than playing Alliance or Horde on WoW, or east vs West in Archage. You choose a faction and you're stuck with it. It's an intended mechanic and not a bug. That's what I mean.

 

Now if you ask me if it's an appropriate mechanic, absolutely not. Wurm doesn't have enough Chaos players to support such division. If one of the two sides takes a dip in numbers, the entire group has to contemplate such a decision as loosing their faith. That's problematic, but not a bug by any stretch.

i think what angel is saying its Bot a Bug its Poor Design...  In Wow you can change from Alliance to Horde. with little to no loss.Cost you 5-10$ (sorry been long time seen's i did it)

 

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It's clear to me now.  Vyn, Mag, and Fo priests that convert to BL on Chaos should immediately lose their priesthood for all servers.    Chaos Freedom kingdom and the Freedom servers are inextricably linked.  No player should be BL on Chaos and then able to follow a WL diety on another Freedom server.  That's where the game is broken and needs to be fixed.   While on a Freedom server, an applicable player has HoTS blood when examined.  This should used for checking to disallow that player from following any of the original WL gods.

 

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1 hour ago, Galatyn said:

It's clear to me now.  Vyn, Mag, and Fo priests that convert to BL on Chaos should immediately lose their priesthood for all servers.    Chaos Freedom kingdom and the Freedom servers are inextricably linked.  No player should be BL on Chaos and then able to follow a WL diety on another Freedom server.  That's where the game is broken and needs to be fixed.   While on a Freedom server, an applicable player has HoTS blood when examined.  This should used for checking to disallow that player from following any of the original WL gods.

 

According to the rules set by the wurm team when Libia was added back into the game some odd years ago that is not how its supposed to work.

 

Policy on Chaos / Freedom (PvE) dual faiths

 

It is the intention that players can have dual faiths when traveling to and from chaos, if they are Black-Lighters on chaos, with the following limitations.

  • Only one side can have priesthood - it is not intended for one account to be a priest for two deities
  • Faith and Deity should be preserved when changing from PvE to Chaos and back again.  That is, you should have separate faith values on both sides
  • This only applies if you follow Libila on Chaos.  If you follow a White-Light or player deity, your faith should remain the same for both side

They made the intent to be able to have duel faiths when you are Libila (because that is the only deity not allowed on freedom) the only restriction was only 1 server you could be priest on, so either priest of vyn mag or fo on freedom and follower of lib on chaos or visa versa. What was never explained is that this was only a wonky set up as Retrograde put it ONLY because of the limitation of Lib on freedom so it was more so a perk with 1 down side which is that because you choose to go Libila you infact are affecting your faith IF and only IF you decide you will choose another deity on chaos. 

 

I guess it makes sense, but at the same time it becomes a limitation or can be when you look at it as described by you, which was in a forever changing game being restricted like that kinda sucks, or you can make the choice to lose the faith by switching.

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dunno how any of this is a downside when dual faith enables being a priest with absolutely no restrictions, the ability to craft and gather all resources and be the priest of your choice is pretty massive

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3 hours ago, MrGARY said:

dunno how any of this is a downside when dual faith enables being a priest with absolutely no restrictions, the ability to craft and gather all resources and be the priest of your choice is pretty massive

its a catch 22.

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On 3/30/2017 at 6:52 AM, Retrograde said:

come again? It's totally allowed.

 

What happens is changing from lib > any other god is the exact same as changing gods on freedom, it will reset your faith.

 

At least fix the issue that happens if you get kicked from a Bl template. As it stands right now you could grief anyone who joins because it boots you to Freedom Isles instead to HoTS. 

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From my testing its gone BL pmk > hots

 

Are you sure this is a current issue?

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Hots never should have had the option to dual faith. Completely unfair.

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6 hours ago, Redd said:

Hots never should have had the option to dual faith. Completely unfair.

That was the focal point of the argument when this thread last popped up, like 2-3 years ago. 

What I find funny is that Maurizio (and the rest of those posting here that can't/couldn't grasp the mechanics) were around the last time this Libila-to-Freedom crap was a popular topic on the forums. And at that point in time, the mechanics were made crystal clear in that thread and devs said everything was intentional.

In Maurizio's case, he probably was just as active in the forums then as he is now... and he was playing at that time on Chaos, so should've known the mechanics this whole time.  But apparently, he didn't.

Basically, this thread is a waste of time and space (and here I am, posting). It's a bunch of people, who never quite grasped the mechanics, whining about how nerfed BL is when, really, this is a major advantage (and probably the only) for BL players. 

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