Nappy

Reducing PVP FUD

112 posts in this topic

It would be nice to see players from both clusters be able to carry over skills. I realize this could not be done without some skill modification with could result in a little loss. There seem to be a lot of stranded players on epic who would like an option without having to start from ground zero. 

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7 minutes ago, Worksock said:

I wouldn't mind a nerf to my character if it meant playing on a cluster that isn't dead

losing a bit of skill sure as hell beats having to grind a new account from nothing

 

Not a soul would be playing on Epic right now if there was a way to move our characters and items to Freedom.

 

Okay well not everyone. But a lot.

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1 hour ago, Maxthx said:

 

Not a soul would be playing on Epic right now if there was a way to move our characters and items to Freedom.

 

Okay well not everyone. But a lot.

 

literally the only benefit I have if that happens is being able to finally sell all my trash that I don't want anymore for dirt cheap to help ruin the market that ruins so many potentially great qol/balance changes, otherwise if i wanted to play chaos/freedom id already be there with the account that already has skills there.  if i was able to move gary's skills 100% over, and combine mrgary's highest freedom/epic skills together, i'd still prefer to stay on epic tbh

 

i have hope that epic/chaos pop can both rise again like they both have many times before.  false hope?  maybe, but its there.  the game as a whole has to grow with it's population regardless, so yeah

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

 

literally the only benefit I have if that happens is being able to finally sell all my trash that I don't want anymore for dirt cheap to help ruin the market that ruins so many potentially great qol/balance changes, otherwise if i wanted to play chaos/freedom id already be there with the account that already has skills there.  if i was able to move gary's skills 100% over, and combine mrgary's highest freedom/epic skills together, i'd still prefer to stay on epic tbh

 

i have hope that epic/chaos pop can both rise again like they both have many times before.  false hope?  maybe, but its there.  the game as a whole has to grow with it's population regardless, so yeah

 

Don't worry Gary, it was quite literally you and possibly several you play with that made me add the 'not everyone' part. I too wish for a reborn Epic...

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, SmeJack said:

Does that mean your bought account gets its skills zeroed? People need to stop talking about skill adjustments when they dont understand the skilling mechanics

 

My bought account has skills in both Epic and Freedom. It's freedom skills are lower than it's epic skills, and those are the skills I use so I have no idea where this comment comes from. I would love an explanation of the skill system, however, that would be very helpful yes.

Edited by Angelklaine
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20 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I would be Keen to a merge both clusters if epic characters had their skills adjusted according to effort placed taking into consideration hours invested.

 

The comment comes from here, if we are adjusting based on effort then it took zero effort for you to buy your account so of course you wouldn't care if your epic skills took a hit they mean nothing to you since you didn't grind them nor do you play there. You then go on to discuss monetary value because that is what matters to you when a great deal of us couldn't care less about economy and the value of things other than our enjoyment playing a game not running a business.

 

It stings when people who have played low level epic and saw the increased gains in the beginning stages sit back and say well its too easy there to merge them with us, its worse when someone who has played for 4 months without experiencing high level grinding on either cluster begins to claim the same. Yes there is no denying that epic has x2 skill gain and it moves faster.... to begin with, it also has a curve that makes grinding in your sweet spot increasingly hard to reach for improving type skills as you start to get higher up. Creation skills become way too easy to perform meaning that getting the lower ql products for your skill ticks becomes impossible in many cases. At 70 skill you perform as if you have 90+, at 90 you are 99 so not only are you pushing harder but the difficulty is not in your favour it goes from easy mode to masochist.

 

When I began playing epic it felt like cheating and I wasn't impressed with anything that I accomplished having come from freedom, after I got past easy mode it felt more on par until I hit the 'you're an idiot' phase. I began to notice it first with locksmithing (yes I did this on freedom just for my priest) and then with baking... baking was the wtf moment when I realised that at 50 skill on freedom there was no problem using regular water but on epic I was forced to use 0.01ql water to be able to gain skill at all. People say that meditating is worse on epic but I have no experience to compare it to I refused to on freedom and even on epic for the first 2 years. In a discussion comparing HFC the conclusion was that it took the same amount of meals to reach 100 skill on both clusters. This isn't even touching on the differences between clusters in terms of stamina. If I look at my freedom account and compare it to my epic account my freedom account stats (overall not just stam) crap all over my epic toon when you consider the time differences in play.

I cant give you formulas and nerd rambling I can only tell you that the difficulty on epic does a backflip in the higher levels. I personally have been shaping my account for 5.5 years, I did not buy it and I do care about people flippantly saying hey just nerf them without understanding or experiencing it.

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This is me posting to let you all know how surprised i am that a thread about dealing with pvp issues turned into epic-chaos merge whining.

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3 hours ago, Nadroj said:

This is me posting to let you all know how surprised i am that a thread about dealing with pvp issues turned into epic-chaos merge whining.

 

that's because it's still one of the biggest issues.....the playerbase is way too small and split up

as for the "nerf them" discussion on merges, yeah it sucks but i personally dont give a crap anymore when we at least get ONE community

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All this talk about epic merge... There is always going to be people saying it's to easy to skill there and there are always people who will say it's actually harder. The devs and I've said this about a million times can EASILY come up with an algorithm that can debunk what the actual difference is within a marginal %. It may not be perfect but it could almost be. With that they could easily again determine how to handle such a thing like a merge... But here is the reality of it all... They don't want a merge to happen, maybe because they are to lazy to do the things necessary for a merge to happen, maybe because they don't think a merge would create any benefit and just push away the last few players on that server... Fact is the players still playing there are guaranteed almost subscribers while the ones that are not playing are just a chance they would be taking if a merge was forced. 

 

I came up with the perfect merge without it being forced on anyone and that is simply getting all skills working the same on both clusters with a quick almost perfect conversion of skills which means epic players actually gain in things like body stats especially stam and all that would be different is that epic would have a epic curve that is slightly modified higher to make up for the conversion of skills. All that would be different is the curve between the servers and the ability for players to use the epic portal and go back and forth to both clusters would appeal to all players those who are playing and those who are not... Also freedom cluster players benefit from it as well making it easier to check things out on the other side. 

 

If that were to happen at that point you could really separate freedom from PvP epic could be where all the PvP changes are made and chaos could become a hunting/event freedom server. 

 

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The need for a merge or not is really just a symptom. The root cause of the apparent need is low population.

 

Thing is much of Epic apparently merged with Chaos anyway by purchasing accounts etc. A year later population on Chaos is even lower despite the influx.

 

The key to PVP growth is fixing root cause issues that have led to low population. Those seem to be:

 

- Fix things that make the game feel unfair. The whole lib player god thing seems like a great example

- Deal with the whole unexpected/exploit behavior

- Make the game more fun to play

- Clean up the perception about biased administration (whether true or not). Perhaps more transparency or a better understanding of just how hard it is using existing game admin tools to actually prove someone is exploiting

- Encourage the community to become more open to new people/players etc

- Put more emphasis on listening to the silent majority of PVP players rather then just the more noisy tiny minority. Chances are what appeals to the majority of non-noisy players could very easily be the key to turning the game around. I think we've made the PVP side of the game even more of a niche then it needs to be and that could easily be as a result of listening too deeply to the hardcore players. You need warriors for PVP. You also need people for them to realistically raid. Those people have to have a reason to stay with the game, being a punching bag won't be enough.

 

Lots of different ways all of these things can be done.

 

~Nappy

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19 hours ago, SmeJack said:

 

The comment comes from here, if we are adjusting based on effort then it took zero effort for you to buy your account so of course you wouldn't care if your epic skills took a hit they mean nothing to you since you didn't grind them nor do you play there. You then go on to discuss monetary value because that is what matters to you when a great deal of us couldn't care less about economy and the value of things other than our enjoyment playing a game not running a business.

 

It stings when people who have played low level epic and saw the increased gains in the beginning stages sit back and say well its too easy there to merge them with us, its worse when someone who has played for 4 months without experiencing high level grinding on either cluster begins to claim the same. Yes there is no denying that epic has x2 skill gain and it moves faster.... to begin with, it also has a curve that makes grinding in your sweet spot increasingly hard to reach for improving type skills as you start to get higher up. Creation skills become way too easy to perform meaning that getting the lower ql products for your skill ticks becomes impossible in many cases. At 70 skill you perform as if you have 90+, at 90 you are 99 so not only are you pushing harder but the difficulty is not in your favour it goes from easy mode to masochist.

 

When I began playing epic it felt like cheating and I wasn't impressed with anything that I accomplished having come from freedom, after I got past easy mode it felt more on par until I hit the 'you're an idiot' phase. I began to notice it first with locksmithing (yes I did this on freedom just for my priest) and then with baking... baking was the wtf moment when I realised that at 50 skill on freedom there was no problem using regular water but on epic I was forced to use 0.01ql water to be able to gain skill at all. People say that meditating is worse on epic but I have no experience to compare it to I refused to on freedom and even on epic for the first 2 years. In a discussion comparing HFC the conclusion was that it took the same amount of meals to reach 100 skill on both clusters. This isn't even touching on the differences between clusters in terms of stamina. If I look at my freedom account and compare it to my epic account my freedom account stats (overall not just stam) crap all over my epic toon when you consider the time differences in play.

I cant give you formulas and nerd rambling I can only tell you that the difficulty on epic does a backflip in the higher levels. I personally have been shaping my account for 5.5 years, I did not buy it and I do care about people flippantly saying hey just nerf them without understanding or experiencing it.

 

Interesting you come at me this way, when in fact, my comments are not about merging Epic with Freedom, but merging Chaos with Epic. I think its a horrible idea to merge the player base by moving servers between clusters, and I think I have made a point of explaining it, by saying it will do nothing but cause people to leave by exactly the same reasons you mentioned. You proved that point with your explanation.

 

Not cool that you decided to go personal though, that's not particularly nice, even less coming from a staffer. The fact that I decided to purchase an account (A low level one at that, mind you) should have absolutely no bearing on this discussion, and you shouldn't have used it as a tool to attack me with. I don't recall going after you at any point. I was giving my opinion on a matter and I believe that just like you, I should be allowed to have one. Regardless of your opinion about buying accounts, is a mechanic that is clearly endorsed by Code Club, and not something I should be ashamed of.

 

Regardless, my point is the fact that we should not be considering merging to fix the pvp problems, it will cost us all as a community. 

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On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:39 AM, Angelklaine said:

I would be Keen to a merge both clusters if

 

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:39 AM, Angelklaine said:

epic characters had their skills adjusted

 

There was no attack and I have no issue with people buying accounts, not every one has the time to play but it does weigh into opinions in terms of skills 'earned'. My response was directed to you because of things you said so it absolutely related to you personally I cant respond to someone who didn't say something, I'm sorry if you took offence but I'm not sure what part was offensive, its not a bad thing to be a new player or an account buyer. If it was because your opinion on the matter seems to be unexperienced and suggesting a nerf to things that don't affect you then there is no sugar coating that. Forums are a place to have a discussion, my comments were born as a response to things you said.

 

Freedom to epic or epic to freedom doesn't really matter and you did say that you don't think it is a good idea overall, I was responding to the quoted part where you said you "would if"

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21 hours ago, Nadroj said:

This is me posting to let you all know how surprised i am that a thread about dealing with pvp issues turned into epic-chaos merge whining.

games bad

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if somebody wants to sit on a dead server cause they got 100 smithing or w/e, power to them. But let the others who also put up with the grind, but was there for pvp/kingdoms/thereasonswepvp to go elsewhere if they wish. 
I know people who put in tons of effort into their accounts and now they see their accounts being useless/not playing them because they're on a dead server, how do we treat these people?

Edited by _Teal_
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4 hours ago, SmeJack said:

 

 

There was no attack and I have no issue with people buying accounts, not every one has the time to play but it does weigh into opinions in terms of skills 'earned'. My response was directed to you because of things you said so it absolutely related to you personally I cant respond to someone who didn't say something, I'm sorry if you took offence but I'm not sure what part was offensive, its not a bad thing to be a new player or an account buyer. If it was because your opinion on the matter seems to be unexperienced and suggesting a nerf to things that don't affect you then there is no sugar coating that. Forums are a place to have a discussion, my comments were born as a response to things you said.

 

Freedom to epic or epic to freedom doesn't really matter and you did say that you don't think it is a good idea overall, I was responding to the quoted part where you said you "would if"

Lol.

 

If you don't know what part was offensive there, then I guess there is nothing more to say.

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On 3/14/2017 at 1:30 PM, MaurizioAM said:

Sadly I see the same fate. 

 

The only thing consistent wurm has had is lies and frankly people are fed up. There are new games literally around the corner that have much of what wurm offers and more that will end up stealing more of wurm pop attention. 

 

I along with others would love to see a drastic change in wurm to really make PvP shine but the fear by the wurm team to make any drastic changes seems to be running the show. I do think wurm could actually be made to be fun and could actually gain population but that would require some major changes that I believe start with REAL Balance of armor types... People have pleaded for changes to make more viable armor options and the empty promise by our lovely wurm team about oh we can always come back to tweak things later seems to only be fluff cause it never gets done. 

 

For the OP questions... Some of your questions are sound and some are only about epic and new servers... I recommend keeping it to fundamentals first and once they learn to get Balance right more talks could be had. I think all the servers could be fine if they did something about the imbalances meditation, armor, true strike cast timer/cool down. 

 

I'm in the same boat.  Waiting for these games in development to get out of alpha/beta that seem interesting.  Kickstarter games do suck though.  They just take our money and give us hope that they will give us the updates we want, then we wait and lose hope and give up...later find out game won't be released as originally planned and turns into another game you have to wait for.

 

Is wurm pvp a kickstarter by chance?

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36 minutes ago, nicedreams said:

Is wurm pvp a kickstarter by chance?

 

What?...

 

...

 

...What?

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Well in PvP you get kicked started with a boot to the face.

 

...Does that count?

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Quote

Here's why there's no way this will happen.

 

1) Elevation's reset was a unanimous disaster. The same people who voted for that still left but for different "reasons".

2) The folks who do play Epic right now (which is pretty much no one voting for this reset as you've all quit, or have proudly stated so in other threads) will likely take this as the last straw and leave as well. So when you lot get bored again or quit for new "reasons", we'll have exactly no one left playing on epic.

3) Last, and likely the most important reason, we are in the middle of working through changes to PvP. What's on Test isn't everything. Epic will be a focus as will Chaos. There's no chance of a wipe happening until everything has been done.

 

So that's pretty much that. A few nails in this coffin for you. Feel free to do your usual. (Refreshes) - Ah, you already have! Good. :) Would hate to see mature answers from this lot. It would dull the fun

 

just like our friend @Keenanonce said...

 

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I was summoned...

And here I had hoped it was to something useful and interesting. Instead it's someone quoting me out of context from an old thread about a tired and fruitless topic.

 

I direct you to Retrograde. I only speak to players who directly need my assistance, and the server hamsters. The server hamsters are the ones who truly care about me.

 

You lot, you have no heart.

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2 hours ago, Keenan said:

I direct you to Retrograde

 

Poor retro, he's going to end up sectioned at this rate.

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I think that everyone need to ask himself question:

 

"Am I able to sacrifice some stats/progress/items to get whole pvp community together and possibly bring back inactive players prior to merge?"

 

I know I'am. And it has nothing to do with the fact that I also have bought an account, wich I progress by 2 years.

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Even though I think one PVP rule-set and server would be helpful

I don't think it would be useful until they redo the UI, way to bothersome especially for new players

especially for archery, spells, and fighting

A lot of veteran players also refuse to even PVE do to the same issues

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This thread was created to ask some pretty basic questions about our intentions with PvP, whether we had plans to not only address existing issues but expand upon some features within PvP.

 

I think the fact a major part of our current plans involve the Valrei system should show we have faith in epic, and will continue to work on the issues it faces.

 

 

As many have stated, PvP in itself for the most part works, there are some issues here and there which we will address, but Epic has issues that include the Valrei system AND the current map, which we're all well aware exist.

 

The problem with every PvP discussion becoming a merge or reset thread is that it takes focus away from the actual issues that impact PvP, regardless of whether the servers were merged, or epic was reset tomorrow there would still be issues that need attention, and they're the issues we wish to address.

 

Once we have our frameworks fleshed out with our current projects we'll be pushing forward to public discussion and feedback, and I look forward to seeing that come, as I'm sure you are.

 

Until that time though, feel free to put forward your own issues, ideas and suggestions (like that meditation thread!) but do avoid the usual merge or reset discussion, we've stated our position on that and continuing to raise it only means less focus on what actually needs fixing.

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