Nappy

Reducing PVP FUD

112 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Maxthx said:

Well, I'll stir the discussion.

 

Its becoming fairly obvious that Chaos and Epic can not, or lets say should not, coexist as two separate PvP environments for Wurm. One will always be accused of stealing from the other, and probably rightly.

 

The most obvious decision would be to either delete one completely (Epic), or remove the PvP features from the other (Chaos). Or vice versa.

 

Admitting to that is probably one of the hardest things I've done on this forum. I started on day one of Epic and would call it my Wurm home. The idea of losing all of my progress, all my history, everything that I've built up in Wurm for the past several years... is a painful thought. If Epic was shut down and I was forced to start over almost from scratch on Freedom, I might quit. I know at least half a dozen people that have quit Wurm because they already feel like Epic is going to be shut down. Wurm is all about long term progression. Putting months and years of effort and work into your character, your deed, your items... that is what makes Wurm great in my opinion. Its what brings me back to it over and over again. So losing Epic would be hard. Not just for me but for everyone that has played Wurm there.

 

At the same time... shutting down Chaos, or removing PvP from it (again), would also be hard. The Chaos map is the oldest map in Wurm. It dates all the way back to the Wurmageddon. Its a piece of Wurm history that shouldn't just be tossed away. And its also the home of a lot of players. But more than that its been shown to me to be a gateway for Freedom players to experience PvP. They can go there with their established accounts and items and try out PvP, and many of them like it and would play there more. Having the ability to travel to a PvP environment and take part in Wurm PvP is a wonderful bridge between Freedom and PvP and something that should absolutely be encouraged.

 

I'm so glad I don't have to make the choices facing the devs right now. It seems like no matter what happens they will be dooming players to oblivion and losing them from the Wurm community. I think right now, since we do have direct acknowledgement that they are discussing and brainstorming the future, we need to come forward and make sure we speak about this stuff. Because if we don't then decisions will be made without our input and potentially very hazardous to the health of this community (PvP). I know so many of the PvPers on the forums feel like they have been shouting at the top of their lungs for decades only to be ignored, but really I feel like this is the moment.

 

Not since the dark ages of Wurm has the PvP community been this bad (small). It leaves the window open for extremely large changes because so few players will be drastically affected. There is a lot of potential right now. Imagine all the positive and constructive things you've been desiring in a Wurm PvP environment being implemented. Because from where I'm standing thats quite possible. If PvP is a long term goal for the development team. Then lets start giving some positive ideas and constructive discussion on it.

 

If Epic has to die for PvP to live again in Wurm... so be it. But I would at least like the ability to leave the sinking ship, and I know I'm not alone in that regard.

Maybe it's insane, but I suggested once to remove Ele map and replace with Chaos one (in current state), thus merging both clusters.

 

mapa.jpg

 

It's almost win-win situation:

- all pvp players on one server

- Epic players keep their home servers effort, nothing is reset

- Chaos players keep their map effort, nothing is reset

- Elevation players lose their effort on the map but there could be possible refund for traders / deed / PMK founding costs (with deed planner you can even import deed map and check for materials, to get exact amount of any material used to add to refund)

 

Other terms:

- Chaos kingdoms are PMK after reset, now they can decide if they stay PMK or join one of three Kingdom presets

- Epic players can join Kingdom presets on Chaos or one of the existing PMK

- Name change possibility for players with the same or similar names or one-time change for all players

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11 hours ago, MootRed said:

 

Who are you, anyway? Ive never seen your face around here.

Not that it matters at all but its not kind to not answer ur questions so here u go.

 

Im a simple carebear who is playing on the epic cluster (HOTS) for some years, i suck at pvp and im not very smart.

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+1 to wilczan for attempting to fix things instead of pointing fingers.

 

Idea looks good btw, I personally think having chaos connected to freedom is where a lot of the pve vs PvP debates put people on fence sides.  Why don't we remove the fences by following what he said? 

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2 hours ago, Army said:

 

Lo5eAZE.jpg

See where it goes? How about starting with a simple answer to my e-mail at least?

There is absolutely no info about the process or any developer positions, so please tell me what you expect us to do then. Answering that by a simple e-mail obviously wasn't possible.

I even messaged you on Steam again after I recieved no answer to the e-mail, and guess what... you didn't replied as well.

Of couse I could have messaged you again and again until you answered, but I'm not running after a position I'm not recieving any infos about.

 

It looks like he's not even reading PMs, wich is highly unprofessional for someone in this position in my opinion.

 

Hi Army,

I apologise If I missed your comment, I do tend to get quite a few and some I need to chase up, It wasnt intentional.

 

As for the missed email, it';s unfortunate it was missed, but I will say I don't think we have any WU specific devs, as most content is WO oriented and trickles down to WU, with WU getting specific bug fixes as well, though there is the possibility of that changing in the coming months.

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1 hour ago, Wilczan said:

 

mapa.jpg

 

What about connecting Chaos to the north side of Elevation?

 

I mean its a good enough idea its just... gawd we've put so much blood, sweat, and tears into Elevation. We basically killed a kingdom (HotS) to get the new Elevation map. Destroying it again... I'm extremely bias because I live there and happen to think its a wonderful map for PvP. And Chaos is so old... theres not a single tile on that map that hasn't been crossed like a dozen times. And it wasn't specifically designed for PvP, although its functioned well enough. I mean MR wasn't even a Kingdom when Chaos was created.

 

Maybe I could find a spot on top of Gedd's Mountain or something...

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6 minutes ago, Maxthx said:

 

What about connecting Chaos to the north side of Elevation?

 

I mean its a good enough idea its just... gawd we've put so much blood, sweat, and tears into Elevation. We basically killed a kingdom (HotS) to get the new Elevation map. Destroying it again... I'm extremely bias because I live there and happen to think its a wonderful map for PvP. And Chaos is so old... theres not a single tile on that map that hasn't been crossed like a dozen times. And it wasn't specifically designed for PvP, although its functioned well enough. I mean MR wasn't even a Kingdom when Chaos was created.

 

Maybe I could find a spot on top of Gedd's Mountain or something...

 

It could be connected, but as I remember, in many topics, people complained that Elevation is too big and needs too much sailing.

 

I think smaller Chaos map would be better, and even if would be crowded then great, that would create pvp.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

one day theyll learn

 

now by 'they'

take it whichever way you want

Edited by Oreo

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Wilczan said:

 

It could be connected, but as I remember, in many topics, people complained that Elevation is too big and needs too much sailing.

 

I think smaller Chaos map would be better, and even if would be crowded then great, that would create pvp.

 

 


Chaos is the same size as Elevation. Ele was increased in size to match Chaos in the reset. So really it's a matter of which map is prefferred, in which i would agree that Chaos has more popularity and in my opinion, for good reason.

Edited by Nadroj
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55 minutes ago, Nadroj said:


Chaos is the same size as Elevation. Ele was increased in size to match Chaos in the reset. So really it's a matter of which map is prefferred, in which i would agree that Chaos has more popularity and in my opinion, for good reason.

Uh, my bad, I clearly mixed up something and though that Ele is bigger.

 

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6 hours ago, Maxthx said:

Its becoming fairly obvious that Chaos and Epic can not, or lets say should not, coexist as two separate PvP environments for Wurm. One will always be accused of stealing from the other, and probably rightly.

 

they clearly and obviously coexisted well in the past, we need more players, not delete more things

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In the past both cluster had its own unique features and stuff. Now epic has nothing you unique nothing to inticise players to go to it. It has the faster skill gain but that's only early on. You have grinded on both you know epic is only faster under 70 skill. Everything that was unique about epic was given to freedom and chaos. You can't imagine how much I would love for a Valrei event to happen on a chaos deed or freedom deed. Just to see the river of tears flow, and watch it be patched in hours. What I tried to explain to budda was that wurm needs to retain its current player base before it can gain more. No good to gain one new player with one account who probably won't be premium for long time or spend money to get deed and such than to lose a older player who probably has 3-5 + accounts and has them all premium not counting deeds and all the other stuff. 

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20 minutes ago, Egard said:

In the past both cluster had its own unique features and stuff. Now epic has nothing you unique nothing to inticise players to go to it. It has the faster skill gain but that's only early on. You have grinded on both you know epic is only faster under 70 skill. Everything that was unique about epic was given to freedom and chaos. You can't imagine how much I would love for a Valrei event to happen on a chaos deed or freedom deed. Just to see the river of tears flow, and watch it be patched in hours.

^^

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Most of Chaos players ARE freedom players as well. Pulling Chaos from the Freedom cluster would kill the game for many of those players, as being a "weekend warrior" has a certain allure for them. I for one do not care to be honest, it would benefit me as my PVP char has better skills in Epic than Freedom, but regardless of my wishes I think it would be detrimental for the community as a whole. Chaos would loose many of it's playerbase to both Freedom and quitting the game when you force them to commit to one or the other, so it would be marginal player gains to the epic cluster while decreasing the overall Wurm population.

 

How would something like this be turned into a smooth transition? Ideas?

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5 hours ago, Maxthx said:

 

gawd we've put so much blood, sweat, and tears into Elevation.

Yeah!

 

I made my tithe of 20k bricks for !!WORLDSTAR!!

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17 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Most of Chaos players ARE freedom players as well. Pulling Chaos from the Freedom cluster would kill the game for many of those players, as being a "weekend warrior" has a certain allure for them. I for one do not care to be honest, it would benefit me as my PVP char has better skills in Epic than Freedom, but regardless of my wishes I think it would be detrimental for the community as a whole. Chaos would loose many of it's playerbase to both Freedom and quitting the game when you force them to commit to one or the other, so it would be marginal player gains to the epic cluster while decreasing the overall Wurm population.

 

How would something like this be turned into a smooth transition? Ideas?

Chaos players won't loose anything on freedom.

 

Their characters would remain on freedom with all their posesion, deeds etc.Their skills will be separated on epic and stay on freedom as they are, just no longer be updated by epic actions. Basically their characters would be functioning like present epic characters who cross through the portal to go to freedom.

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On 3/15/2017 at 5:43 AM, Retrograde said:

 

 

Anyone who wishes to apply as a volunteer developer knows how to go about it.

 

How do you do this exactly?

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Posted (edited)

52 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

Chaos players won't loose anything on freedom.

 

Their characters would remain on freedom with all their posesion, deeds etc.Their skills will be separated on epic and stay on freedom as they are, just no longer be updated by epic actions. Basically their characters would be functioning like present epic characters who cross through the portal to go to freedom.

Yes, but it will double their efforts for the same result. For example, currently I can work on Chainsmithing on my home in Crossroads (Chaos), and make suits of armor and products to use/sell on Freedom while there is a PvP low (no PvP going on). Or I can use my Chaos player to make tools and items for my freedom ones. Skill gained on Chaos is also Freedom skills so I can work on my character no matter where I go.

 

Getting my character ported to Epic (Theoretically, since I already have an epic version) would mean I have to choose where I want to play that character. I would need to level skills on both Freedom AND Epic and if I choose epic I would not be able to use my gains on Freedom. Regardless, I would be forced to make that choice.

 

There is a reason Freedom pvpers are not on Epic. Anyone can simply cross a portal right now, and with the skill boost getting your PvP skills to 70 shouldn't be too hard. Forcing these players to play on Epic when they have already made a conscious decision not to might simply drive them away. I for one would not make the jump because I would need to leave everything behind.

Edited by Angelklaine
Typo
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50 minutes ago, Threap said:

 

How do you do this exactly?

Listed earlier in the thread, email Budda with examples of your work.

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

How would something like this be turned into a smooth transition? Ideas?

It's been said before in the past.

The skills are the same. Meditation, valrei titles and posessions separate. Epic has no skillbonus % but uses a curve to determine effective skill.

Taddaaaa~

But devs refuse any kind of merge. so thats that.

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11 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

they clearly and obviously coexisted well in the past, we need more players, not delete more things

 

Well the easiest way to attract more players is with a PvP mechanics overhaul. I've seen numerous posts from old players that have said they would return if that happened.

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I would be Keen to a merge both clusters if epic characters had their skills adjusted according to effort placed taking into consideration hours invested. Niarja has a formula to value skills in comparison to how much effort it takes to raise them, so I know it's possible. However Epic players would balk at this since they would consider the nerfing of their skills unfair and disadvantageous to them. Bringing a pvp character to Epic would have a similar effect, as taking the PvP out of freedom completely would devastate the value of any pvp account as there would be absolutely no use to things like Path of Insanity, level 90 fight skills, lock picking, archery, catapults, traps, high quality locks and other PvP oriented skills. The effective value of a PvP character would plummet overnight, as anyone in Epic would be able to reach the skill level if a medium tier account in a short amount of time.

 

This would add to the amount of people who would quit the game when account value drops from a grand to ~450e and everyone else can reach your skill level at a fraction of the time it took them to reach theirs.

 

There are a lot of things to consider when merging two clusters or moving the Chaos server as suggested in here. Such a change will cost the community members no matter how it's done. Players don't like their gameplay messed with. I believe the solution is in attracting new players to both clusters, not rearranging and moving the existing ones.

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Does that mean your bought account gets its skills zeroed? People need to stop talking about skill adjustments when they dont understand the skilling mechanics

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Those discussions about differences on skilling on epic vs freedom are always the same, freedom claim that they get harder times, epic say the same.

 

It would be nice if someone with knowledge of the mechanics and some equations explained this subject once for all.

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7 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

Those discussions about differences on skilling on epic vs freedom are always the same, freedom claim that they get harder times, epic say the same.

 

It would be nice if someone with knowledge of the mechanics and some equations explained this subject once for all.

As far as I'm aware, skilling on Epic for most skills is easier up to about 60 or so, past that it becomes more difficult than on Freedom.

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I remember someone doing the math in a merge discussion before and it showed that it was roughly overall 20% faster to get a skill to 70 (or maybe it was 90???) on epic compared to freedom

my memory is trash though so I could be wrong

 

I wouldn't mind a nerf to my character if it meant playing on a cluster that isn't dead

losing a bit of skill sure as hell beats having to grind a new account from nothing

Edited by Worksock
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