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Reduce local distance ( PVP! )

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Local is currently 80 tiles
I strongly believe that it would be beneficial for PvP to limit this down to 40 or even 50 tiles to reduce the heads up that your enemy gets when you pop local. 
Right now as it stands, you have to be pretty far off deed to not be able to react quick enough to get back to deed, but lowering local distance gives opportunity for more situational awareness ( hearing people cutting trees / digging / mining before you pop local, for example ) or even spotting out your enemy before he's even aware you know what he's up to. 

Giving your enemy less than a mile's heads up that you're in the vicinity. You know, the kind of thing that would provide more PvP on a PvP server instead of "run away!"

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Been suggested a million times before.. not a bad idea but it probably won't happen. This was introduced on Nappys PvP server and it definitely made PvP a little more interesting.. +1ish

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I think removing local from PVP would make the game very very interesting.

It favours the lesser kingdoms as they can sneak about without being spotted.

And, it favours the bigger kingdoms if they roll in a big group the 'somefriesmatherfacker' factor will win a fight.

It will also make judging whether to fight or flee harder and will require a better attention span.

+1 to remove.

The main problems I see is people will be too scared to roam, raiding would be a lot lot harder because you could hide dudes everywhere then jump out. But that is pretty irrelevant because raiding doesnt happen much anyway.

 

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Not such a bad idea for PvE either, to be honest.  I'm pretty fond of my privacy when working the stead and it's really easy to open up a private discussion if someone is outside local.

+1

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+1

 

Hard to get PvP if the moment you get within 80 tiles of someone they know to start running away, and with that 80 tile lead too.  The local chat list on PvP servers is just a danger detector allowing people to avoid fights 

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+1 Lovely idea.

 

I replied to a thread to let people karma port home out of local, but this changes that.  If local is reduced then I'm all for no karma port home out of local except after a timer.

 

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No point in reducing local, its fine the way it is, the cheaters will still have the advantage with or without a local.

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not a great idea on large servers with super fast hell horses

 

has been explained why its bad in greater details in previous threads by some

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Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

not a great idea on large servers with super fast hell horses

 

has been explained why its bad in greater details in previous threads by some

 

i think hes saying just dont put the players name in the local chat list until they get to an actual close distance, but still have each player visible to eachother if they are actually looking at eachother.  that way if someone is escaping on a hellhorse, they can still be seen and followed by the pursuer even if they arent in the new shorter "local".  player render distance would still be 80 tiles

 

this would allow an observant player to ride around and possibly spot an enemy before being in short-local, and be able to rush in for a gank before the enemy knows to start running

or allow for players do do actual scouting of enemies and watch what they're doing from just outside of local, reporting their actions back to the rest of your group who are preparing to attack

 

the way the game currently works, if you see them, they see you. you dont really need to ever be on guard or watch out for anything because you get a big white textual warning in your local chat tab whenever anyone gets remotely near you.  theres really no element of surprise and it takes away the possibility of strategy in ambushes, setting traps, scouting, guarding your perimeter, watching your surroundings, etc

Edited by Alexgopen

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Posted (edited)

Idea wasn't just theory on DesV3. Local of 40 tiles was put into practice and the use of an active anti-cheat that removed any information being sent to the client for processing if it was more then the 40 tile limit also got rid of the cheating angle.

 

Client performance impact was also positive because the client was having to process far fewer items leading to fights with larger numbers of players etc and way less lag issues when larger numbers of clients were in local. Higher player numbers in both fights and on the server then either Epic or Chaos can claim today.

 

From a fight perspective, the local distance essentially closed to the same range as visual so if someone was in your local they were visible to you. This also meant that people off deed had much more of a feeling of being on edge. There was a greater fear of being successfully surprised and for those attacking there was also a much more realistic feeling that they could launch a surprise raid deep into enemy territory. This is more in line with real experience in the Wurm time period.

 

I would go on to add limits on when people can teleport away to further enhance this suggestion (perhaps 5 minutes after enemy left local).

 

~Nappy

Edited by Nappy
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3 hours ago, Nappy said:

Idea wasn't just theory on DesV3. [and everything else]

 

Well, I really like to see those WU experiments actually succeeded on various levels and i really hope the devs will listen to those feedbacks. PvP is a part of wurm, and even if i have said many times i have no interest in it, i can easilly see how broken and uninteresting it is from my chat with pvpers or just reading the forum.

 

Hang in there guys and pray for the best!

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3 hours ago, Nappy said:

Idea wasn't just theory on DesV3. Local of 40 tiles was put into practice and the use of an active anti-cheat that removed any information being sent to the client for processing if it was more then the 40 tile limit also got rid of the cheating angle.

 

Client performance impact was also positive because the client was having to process far fewer items leading to fights with larger numbers of players etc and way less lag issues when larger numbers of clients were in local. Player numbers in both fights and on the server then either Epic or Chaos can claim today.

 

From a fight perspective, the local distance essentially closed to the same range as visual so if someone was in your local they were visible to you. This also meant that people off deed had much more of a feeling of being on edge. There was a greater fear of being successfully surprised and for those attacking there was also a much more realistic feeling that they could launch a surprise raid deep into enemy territory. This is more in line with real experience in the Wurm time period.

 

I would go on to add limits on when people can teleport away to further enhance this suggestion (perhaps 5 minutes after enemy left local).

 

~Nappy

 

+1 to like, all of this. Especially the anti-cheat. Would love to see something like that added to WO. 

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If the results on WU tests were successfull in the way they increased pvp quantitative and qualitative then they should implement it in Wurm Online. I think local of 50 tiles would be enough.

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Giant empty servers vs smaller populated ones

 

I cant see it doing anything in WO except making bumping into another player almost a miracle

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49 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Giant empty servers vs smaller populated ones

 

I cant see it doing anything in WO except making bumping into another player almost a miracle

 

Good point. DesV3 was a 1024 x 1024 server. When at it's 3 week peak of 187 active players with 62 concurrent online the population density per tile was vastly higher then either Chaos or Epic today. The result was players literally stumbling into each other and fights resulting.

 

The design of the map is a key factor for certain. Rather then giving in to wishful thinking and creating a large map, instead look at real numbers and design small, then go slightly smaller still. If the goal is active PVP then make the map support real world conditions which lead to fights - lots of people crammed into smaller areas where owning the land gives a group an advantage - hence the need to fight for it.

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Have always been for removing local entirely, but this is a step so +1

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Posted (edited)

A subject that's been brought up again and again; thoroughly debated, and contested.

 

Personally the repeated theories and conjecture bore me at this point, so how about we actually test this?

 

Now if only there was some game mode that was temporarily isolated from the rest of the servers, and yet NOT a test server. A relatively small area where we could try out not having local or limited local, and yet get a decent enough number of players live. coughchallengecough

 

EDIT: Hell if the devs rather not, there's even WU now.

 

Personally I'm all for removing local; however, something more dynamic is needed in its place such as a system implementing the five senses in RL, especially for animals and NPCs. More functionality from bell towers, etc.

Edited by Klaa

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On 3/12/2017 at 9:17 AM, SmeJack said:

Giant empty servers vs smaller populated ones

 

I cant see it doing anything in WO except making bumping into another player almost a miracle

Yeah, I was actually thinking it should be kept at the larger distance during Noob Status so they still get to see and meet people.  Also maybe get a better chance to run for dear life.

On the other hand, that would defeat the purpose in PvP since everyone could just plant a noob alt?

 

Still wouldn't mind seeing this, including the Noob Exemption, on the PvE side though.  Just my preference, most are probably more randomly social than I am.

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Posted (edited)

On 3/12/2017 at 10:17 AM, SmeJack said:

Giant empty servers vs smaller populated ones

 

I cant see it doing anything in WO except making bumping into another player almost a miracle

in WO, you bump into another player, they leave local and karma, or instantly run if they can't find a way to get out of local.

 

Good game, great fun.

 

+1

Edited by MAADposter

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7 minutes ago, MAADposter said:

in WO, you bump into another player, they leave local and karma, or instantly run if they can't find a way to get out of local.

 

Good game, great fun.

 

+1

 

but a smaller local makes it even easier to leave and karma, or run away??

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19 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

but a smaller local makes it even easier to leave and karma, or run away??

 

i was more or less vying for the no local option, so that way, if you manage to see someone youre likely committed.

 

but i suppose yea

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18 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

but a smaller local makes it even easier to leave and karma, or run away??


No, makes it harder to run away because you have less reaction time, works both ways.
Yes it's easier to lose them from actual local, but it's harder to lose somebody from local because when they pop you can pretttty much see them and be on them. 
If the visability range went past the 40 tiles and the karma went into a 300 second CD like LO timer or 60 seconds in influence, would work pretty good.

Was played extensivly on WU, a prime feature I look for now too.
The cons of lower distance out weigh the cons of the current distance, even tho these 'cons' are just situational theories on what can happen

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

 

but a smaller local makes it even easier to leave and karma, or run away??

 

i would prefer render distance and the karma prevention remaining at 80 tiles, while your local chat list gets limited to around 40

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