DevBlog

WSA: Mailing liquids

91 posts in this topic

I really don't understand need for this o.O Could you please explain your reasoning devs cuz it looks like stupid idea and totaly unecessary...

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No one has mentioned tile transmutation liquid yet.  Going to about double the cost of liquid that is mailed. 

 

My thoughts on mailing items are that with the limited player base we have now it is too difficult at this time to develop reliable regional trading hubs and therefore it should be easy to mail stuff.  However, from an overall gameplay point of view I do support the idea of encouraging face to face trade for a game like Wurm.  If/when the overall population grows to a level such that products like milk could reliably be picked up locally, well, support your local dairy!

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one of the lowest weight liquids is fennel oil with 0.05kg/unit....900 units fit in a small barrel...so 9s1c to mail it? i guess i dont need to say more....

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I'd like to add my dislike of this change. I liked the idea from the last page about a standard cost for barrels/jars/etc. Some servers are too large to effectively move good around and at least we had cheap liquid shipment.

 

I know it's an important money sink, but how about allowing a standard cost to ship barrels, backpacks or satchels full of unprocessed goods?  Then we could ship woad, herbs, fruits, acorns, etc, en masse. Sure, volume will effect how much you can send, so maybe the cabbage market won't be great, but small goods shipping would be a godsend for those of us who specialize in gathering and for people who use those goods. 

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I thought it was a feature accompanying introduction of dozens of new drinks.

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Posted (edited)

WTB barrel of beer.

Edited by Nordlys

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1 hour ago, Pyro said:

one of the lowest weight liquids is fennel oil with 0.05kg/unit....900 units fit in a small barrel...so 9s1c to mail it? i guess i dont need to say more....

My math comes out a bit differently.

 

900 Units X 0.05Kg/Unit = 900 X 0.05Kg = 45 Kg

 

7 hours ago, DevBlog said:

WSA.png

With the upcoming patch this will be fixed to reflect 1c per 1 unit of volume (e.g. 1c mailing cost for every 1kg of water/milk/alcohol).

 

So it is 1c/Kg, or am I misunderstanding that?

If so... 1c/Kg X 45Kg = 45c

 

I can see how you get to 9s, but that's not how I'm understanding what they're saying.  Thoughts?

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7 hours ago, DevBlog said:

 

Since 1.3 Mailing liquids has been charged at 1c no matter the volume, while this has been going on since then, it’s come to the attention of the dev team and it’s been discussed, with the decision to return it to how it worked prior to 1.3.

/snip

 

"It's come to the attention of the dev team".. does this mean they didn't notice a change that they made and it had to be brought to their attention? If it had been indicated that this was a temporary measure for a few months after the patch it would be fine, but this kind of blindsided all of us.

 

I also would also like to know some of the discussion and rationale here. The bluntness of the announcement leaves me feeling bruised and angry.

 

It would seem an easy compromise to make the mailcost, say, 1c per 4kg of liquid(rounded up). so a jar or water skin could stay at 2c(1c for the liquid + 1c for the container) while a barrel would be 13c(12c for the liquid + 1c for the container), which still leaves margin of profit for dairies.

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2 hours ago, Odynn said:

Community is spread too thin nowadays, trade by mail is the only option left, reducing the mailing price was a good thing, raising it on items that are needed in large amounts is just silly. +1 to anything improving players interactions. big fat -1 to everything else adding tedious to the game.

 

 

i think this says it all.  removing the only thing that has actually improved the economy in this game in a long time seems counter intuitive.

 

would'nt the time be better spent making the content that has been around for very long times actually work and have purpose as opposed to re-changing the more recent content  that has had a positive effect on the game?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

So it is 1c/Kg, or am I misunderstanding that?

 

yea, cause for milk, maple sap and some others one unit is 1kg.

 

before the cooking update it was 1c/unit, which can be from 0.05kg for fennel oil, 0.18kg for cherry juice, 0.27kg for apple juice and so on. no idea where they would put distilled alcohol, cause a "unit" produced is 0.01kg...so 4500units/barrel or 45s mail fee.....

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2 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

 

My math comes out a bit differently.

 

900 Units X 0.05Kg/Unit = 900 X 0.05Kg = 45 Kg

 

 

So it is 1c/Kg, or am I misunderstanding that?

If so... 1c/Kg X 45Kg = 45c

 

I can see how you get to 9s, but that's not how I'm understanding what they're saying.  Thoughts?

 

The mail cost is based per unit.  If the unit is .50 then you have 90 units in a small barrel.  If the unit is .05 then you have 900 units in a small barrel.  So you would pay 1c per each unit plus 1c for the barrel.  At least that is how it used to be before the change that they are now saying is a bug they are fixing.

 

Damn these features that aren't features that are fun but need to be fixed!    Can we please fix things that affect actual game play instead of crapping on things that are nice?

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2 hours ago, Pyro said:

one of the lowest weight liquids is fennel oil with 0.05kg/unit....900 units fit in a small barrel...so 9s1c to mail it? i guess i dont need to say more....

 

Sorry, this is a good point. Forgot about some of the new liquid types having a tiny base weight. Will put a cap on the cost relative to weight (~10c/50kg)

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1 minute ago, Budda said:

 

Sorry, this is a good point. Forgot about some of the new liquid types having a tiny base weight. Will put a cap on the cost relative to weight (~10c/50kg)

 

Knew it wasn't going to be a bad fix. :)

Thanks for this, Budda! 

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3 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

Sorry, this is a good point. Forgot about some of the new liquid types having a tiny base weight. Will put a cap on the cost relative to weight (~10c/50kg)

 

Honestly, I'm pretty happy with this.  This seems fair.

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5 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

Sorry, this is a good point. Forgot about some of the new liquid types having a tiny base weight. Will put a cap on the cost relative to weight (~10c/50kg)

 

This is good new Budda, but surely this kind of thing should have been considered well before putting out an announcement like this? It would have saved an awful lot of annoyance for the players who have already had a lot of good QoL features taken away from them.

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2 minutes ago, Asciana said:

 

This is good new Budda, but surely this kind of thing should have been considered well before putting out an announcement like this? It would have saved an awful lot of annoyance for the players who have already had a lot of good QoL features taken away from them.

 

You know human error is a thing, right? Budda admitted that he forgot about the small base weight of some of the new liquids since the update. Why chastise him after he has apologized and offered us a better solution instead?

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The OP has already said " (e.g. 1c mailing cost for every 1kg of water/milk/alcohol). " Which would be 45c for 45kg of milk. Now we're already backtracking to make it 10c/50kg. Surely even at that point alarm bells should have been ringing that this would be unnaceptable mailing costs to the players? Rigorous testing should be done so that human error issues can be addressed before they get announced / go live. You know like a bunch of players being unable to even get ALL the affinities possible like the cooking update had promised? 

 

Surely you can see this this could have been avoided with proper testing?

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3 minutes ago, Asciana said:

The OP has already said " (e.g. 1c mailing cost for every 1kg of water/milk/alcohol). " Which would be 45c for 45kg of milk. Now we're already backtracking to make it 10c/50kg. Surely even at that point alarm bells should have been ringing that this would be unnaceptable mailing costs to the players? Rigorous testing should be done so that human error issues can be addressed before they get announced / go live. You know like a bunch of players being unable to even get ALL the affinities possible like the cooking update had promised? 

 

Surely you can see this this could have been avoided with proper testing?

It's not even live yet... This is what was planned for the next patch.  This is actually better than most games I've seen out there, who just push these kinds of changes out without telling anyone.

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Thanks Budda.  Nice that this will be changed.  

 

As to answer your question Toma.  Many of us have been here long enough to have had many things pushed out without a warning just like this and worse.  Then sometimes they are changed back or sometimes lessened or sometimes nothing changes.  Just depends on the how someone feels on that day.  This is why people get upset about things so fast now.

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Thanks Pashka and Pyro for the explanation.

 

Just want to point out that this wasn't actually pushed out without warning.  This thread IS a warning ;)  CC&co then took notice of the feedback and are acting accordingly.

I know they could have these discussions and try to think up all permutations behind closed doors, to "spare" the player base agony, but on the other hand such an invested and passionate community is an asset.  It's great to see developers recognize that and use it.

 

I'd propose we put this in the win column for dev / community relations based on Budda's frank revision in light of feedback.  With positive communicative experiences like this, perhaps over time the community can offer devs more benefit of the doubt, and the agony will be lessened.  Dreaming is free after all, pending further notice :P

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Learn to sail.

 

Y'all killed shipping as a business by demanding "plot course", NOW USE IT.

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Update:

After ongoing discussion and community feedback, we'll be addressing a few things, firstly, liquids will now be charged 1c per 5 kgs, regardless of unit size, a small barrel of any liquid will now cost 10c (1c container 45 / 5 = 9c)

 

Secondly, this will now apply to all items that can be combined and mailed, hopefully improving trade of smaller combined items without damaging bulk trade.

 

We appreciate all feedback, but I do stress that these threads are the very point of warnings like this is to provide information and avoid the changes just being pushed on as was done in the past, so keep it constructive and avoid bashing the devs!

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Gah. This really kills me. I've been playing for four months or so now and brewing was the skill I was most into skilling up. Its hard enough to sell stuff with the limited market and now your wrecking the cost of mailing it?  Even at the reduced 10c per barrel it will definitely hit my sells hard. I'm already selling them barely over the cost of the crops to make the oils and such.  While I know the opinion of one player doesn't matter much this really puts a damper on my motivation to play.  I also sell milk at 20c a barrel with 2c mailing cost too. Now to keep the market I'm going to have to sell it for 12c a barrel? I was already driving the prices down selling it 10c under the other sellers and still not selling that much milk.  Bleh 

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This is a really bad idea. Even with the 'adjusted' (See : Supposedly fixed) prices. Coins are not easy to come by on this game. There's a lot of new folks who can't even 'get started'/make their first deed cost. You should be wanting to enhance trade, not make it harder on your player-base, thereby killing even more trade.

If this was an attempt to force the rich veterans of the game to use a money sink more often/drop more coin back into the economy...it's not likely to help in that respect either, as they are likely to just do some other cost-cutting means like resorting to sailing it themselves or maybe even resorting to getting villagers to do it for them (If they have them.). There's way too much lack of trust for people to hire a noob on to deliver something for them. (A problem with some of the game mechanics, and the history of bad things happening previously on your game.)

 

As someone who has played many many other games, some of them with auction houses, and become extremely 'rich' in many games, often by using their mailing systems...this is like shooting yourself in the foot. Exorbitant pricing leads to LESS use of a money sink. You have to provide your player-base with something they want to drop a lot of coin on...to take out large masses of coin. I'm sure there will still be an occasional person using your system, but a lot of them already avoid the mailing system because of the (In our eyes) idiotic pricing structure of it.

I myself have 'amassed' a decent sum of coins (Over 50s after about 2+ years of playing) even in this painful to acquire coins game...and I almost never use the mailing system except with CoD or sending something to a new person, so the people you're targeting with this are the people who are actually involved in heavy trade/the exchange of goods/who are attempting to make some coin. Lowering the prices is actually likely to improve trade. Making it cost more to mail some liquid? That's just asking for even less trade...in a game where we seem to be losing people as it is...

This game is some kind of weird capitalist utopia, where profits are what people want.

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Posted (edited)

..

Edited by Corsan
Double post due to lag.

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