Hey Devs, Why raid if all the loot is on un-tauntable merchants or alts

[Cornchips 3,037]

all this ###### is already on elevation why is it a question if it's balanced or not if it's already in the game lol

[Jberg 3,070]

32 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

It shouldn't be difficult to find me making and supporting a taunting merchant thread the last two times i was on chaos, both times on the losing side.

 

I'm not sure if i even posted in that thread.

 

Edit:

 

After reading, i actually did not post in that thread, nor vote in it, which means as far as i can remember i have always 100% been in favor of allowing merchants to be taunted on both servers, so..... not sure what the point is here. (Nor did anyone im playing with currently)

 

So not sure what you mean by "weak", and if you want to pull that card, as inaccurate as it is, it's not difficult to find dozens of ideas downvoted by MR when they were losing, but supported when they were winning. I guess this makes you weak too.

 

Looking at the date too, i wasn't even a part of the "side" you are claiming me to be a part of at the time. That was after i got kicked out because i got blamed for Cndo's mistake with selling Crimsonwolf to Red. There are multiple people who can vouch for that too.

 

 

But i'll applaud you for making up some random ###### to try and de-legitimize my post, i guess?

 

Sorry, honest mistake, mistook you for Postes.

[Oreo 5,793]

11 minutes ago, Jberg said:

 

Sorry, honest mistake, mistook you for Postes.

may he rest in peace  ✌️️

Edited February 19, 2017 by Oreo

[armyskin 930]

If epic is so much better than Chaos why arent you there?

[Redd 4,281]

There are many changes required for a functioning PvP server. All these changes need to be compiled and worked on and released with a new map. That way the PvP scene will get a big boost in population and will retain some of the player base in that boost due to good changes.

 

Or alternatively we can go with the current  dev idea and leave it alone and watch PvP slowly die more.

 

 

[Wargasm 1,926]

 

39 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

If you were able to clean my deeds in a reasonable time, we could work out a several gold payment and you get to keep the loot. I have -ALWAYS- been in favor of making raiding easier, and i have -ALWAYS- been vocal about it when the servers aren't as active. I think more and I write more when there's nothing to do, sorry to say.

 

I don't think mine door damage is the problem.  I think the fact that you have 27 mine doors is the problem.  Even if mine door damage was increased by 1,000 percent, it would still take days to bash through 27 mine doors.  Then what?  You'll come make a new suggestion that people shouldn't be able to put more than 1 mine door on each deed?

 

39 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

His point holds no water regardless, that suggestion literally has nothing to do with myself or anyone i play with, none of us commented or voted on it, and pretty much all of us have been in support of these changes for as long as i can remember.

 

"Pretty much all of you" have also openly admitted you hate raiding and prefer open field PvP. 

 

39 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

As i can predict a few certain people coming to try and trigger me soon, i'll go ahead and say this. What bothers me the most is that the people least interested in raiding seem to be the ones who don't care its that difficult, but they are also the people who claim its too difficult and time consuming to be worth doing.

 

Raiding takes patience that some people don't have.  Just like grinding channeling takes patience that people don't have.  That doesn't mean the devs need to make raiding easier to cater to the highest population kingdom who are known to have no patience to do anything themselves. 

 

I mean this in the nicest way Proph... but if your guys can't be bothered to chip your own bricks, make your own mine doors or even grind your own accounts, it stands to reason that your testament to something being "time consuming" is somewhat diminished.

 

39 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

On another note, why is changing raiding gearing success for those at the top?

 

30 people are going to destroy a deed *ALOT* faster than 10 people, so tell me again how faster raiding benefits the smaller kingdoms?

[Propheteer 7,139]

22 minutes ago, armyskin said:

If epic is so much better than Chaos why arent you there?

If you could read, you would see that it only has two of the features we listed as suggestions anyway, but its much worse due to the wonderous combination of a shitty map and unfinished features. I will admit a lot of these things have probably been changed, but, you cant always constantly buy accounts every time something gets fixed for someone else after you sat there begging for something to be addressed for two+ years.

 

19 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

 

I don't think mine door damage is the problem.  I think the fact that you have 27 mine doors is the problem.  Even if mine door damage was increased by 1,000 percent, it would still take days to bash through 27 mine doors.  Then what?  You'll come make a new suggestion that people shouldn't be able to put more than 1 mine door on each deed?

1000% and you could probably clear them all in a day with a medium sized raid force, but no i would never suggest that. I'm trying to brainstorm options, and clearly you admit its a problem, so maybe we should put our heads together and think of a way to change this for the better, no?

 

Quote

 

"Pretty much all of you" have also openly admitted you hate raiding and prefer open field PvP. 

 

 

Raiding takes patience that some people don't have.  Just like grinding channeling takes patience that people don't have.  That doesn't mean the devs need to make raiding easier to cater to the highest population kingdom who are known to have no patience to do anything themselves. 

Used to not be that way, we used to be the people who raided constantly, we used to be known for it. Ask Awardis, we raided every single one of their capitols except the most recent one. Ask anyone who was terrorized by us on JKH, most of which we did with a CR nerf.

 

It sure takes patience, i'll agree on that. But, it went from taking six hours, to taking eight hours, to taking ten hours, to taking fifteen hours, to taking a day, to taking three days over the course of two years. That sure is a lot of patience, and a lot of time allowing people to get loot away to safety. I'll also tell you right now that no kingdom in the game has the patience to raid any deed worth raiding (not some shithole s5 wardeed), and i don't see anyone proving me wrong anytime soon.

 

As for no patience, you should remember all the deeds we turbonerded for JK, while most of JK couldn't be bothered to donate a single brick or participate outside of dying to Ebonaura. As for our most recent return to JK i will admit we were more reliant on other peoples resources as we were more focused on offense, you're more than welcome to talk to AdamZ about my 32 hour building sessions while most of the kingdom sat on their asses though.

 

I will say MR got it right for the new meta though, with the way deeds are built now, the only way to make progress is heavy destruction as its the only way to get through heavy fortifications. Which is actually unhealthy for the game that to make progress on any deed worth raiding youd need a 50+ man raid force split into three shifts for 72 hours destroying everything. It's not really feasible to just plop a hole in anymore, in most cases now you have to tear down an entire 2x18 multistory longhouse and the dirtwall. Nobody wants to repair that much stuff, hell, nobody wants to tear down that much stuff.

 

Quote

I mean this in the nicest way Proph... but if your guys can't be bothered to chip your own bricks, make your own mine doors or even grind your own accounts, it stands to reason that your testament to something being "time consuming" is somewhat diminished.

 

 

30 people are going to destroy a deed *ALOT* faster than 10 people, so tell me again how faster raiding benefits the smaller kingdoms?

 

Well, right now its impossible to raid a deed with 10 people in a reasonable time frame if its well built (and i shouldn't have to clarify this as much as i am, but, i feel like the second i don't someone is gonna say WELL I RAIDED THIS ONE DEED WITH NO DIRTWALLS ONE TIME IN THIRTY MINUTES), so, i'd say giving them an opportunity benefits smaller kingdoms. Especially considering one defender makes raids so much more time consuming, its a ###### cakewalk to defend solo against 10+ people as the game stands currently.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Propheteer

[Mclovin 2,590]

1 hour ago, Jberg said:

You mean you run the server now instead? Right? That's what I got from your statement.

 

Weak.

Except we've been asking for simular changes since MRC were in control, I personally have.

Also keeping merchants untauntable for the landing? make it so whilst in freedom influence they can't be taunted, perhaps.
Delaying this update because one kingdom is in power is very weak arguement for the future health of chaos too.
Power is like wind, it will change.
And when it does, I will still support updates that create reasons for players to come to my deed and raid it for my stuff.
Welcome to the purpose of wurm pvp

Edited February 19, 2017 by Mclovin

[Wargasm 1,926]

5 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

Well, right now its impossible to raid a deed with 10 people in a reasonable time frame if its well built, so, i'd say giving them an oppourtunity benefits smaller kingdoms. Especially considering one defender makes raids so much more time consuming, its a ###### cakewalk to defend solo against 10+ people as the game stands currently.

 

You're not making sense, or I'm not reading it correctly.  How does one defender being able to out-repair ten raiders help a small kingdom raid a larger one?

 

[Mclovin 2,590]

Allow mine doors to be catapulted for a damage higher than bashing.

[Propheteer 7,139]

3 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

You're not making sense, or I'm not reading it correctly.  How does one defender being able to out-repair ten raiders help a small kingdom raid a larger one?

 

 

ok

 

if with 10 raiders right now, you cannot raid a deed worth raiding, but if you make raiding easier, you could.

 

you are giving them access to a part of the game they could not have access to before because defending is so stacked.

 

 

i mean no matter what the group with larger numbers can do it faster, but, they can do it faster now. I can't think of a way to fix that, but i can think of ways to open up the game for the little guy, at least in scenarios i could imagine myself in, i mean i spent a lot of time as the little guy so i'd like to think i have some idea of what people in this position would like if they had the same approach to the game as myself.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Propheteer

[armyskin 930]

oh there it was. make it easier. I wonder how many of the 800+ posts are you just complaining about how whatever you are wanting is too hard and you just want the devs to cater to you?

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by armyskin

[Propheteer 7,139]

4 minutes ago, armyskin said:

oh there it was. make it easier. I wont how many of the 800+ posts are you just complaining about how whatever you are wanting is too hard and you just want the devs to cater to you?

 

Oh yay, a person too eager to belittle me to actually refute any argument in the thread, but also a person who enjoys doing the same thing he is bitching about.

 

Clearly a Madnezz protege. Does it bother you i'm asking for the same things ive been asking for for years, but they are the same things your kingdom was asking for when they were winning and trying to prevent when they were losing so the developers would cater for them? Or is it too difficult to read your own post history? You tell me.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Propheteer

[Oreo 5,793]

I don't think Merchants are the big deal here.

There's a mechanic already in to deal with it, with taunting, just needs to be put on the server.

Don't give the crap with merchants on starter deeds either, nobody uses them now, especially with being able to cross borders to anywhere, on any side of the server.

 

It's being able to just log out everything on your 15 sermon alts, which goes around that Merchant taunting thing.. so it makes it irrelevant.

Now, how do you change/stop that?  I don't think you can.  Unless, I guess, if you make it premium-only.

But then again, $ $ $ $ $ $$ $ $ $ $ $$$ $ $ $ $

Edited February 19, 2017 by Oreo

[Propheteer 7,139]

1 minute ago, Oreo said:

I don't think Merchants are the big deal here.

There's a mechanic already in to deal with it, with taunting, just needs to be put on the server.

Don't give the crap with merchants on starter deeds either, nobody uses them now, especially with being able to cross borders to anywhere, on any side of the server.

 

It's being able to just log out everything on your 15 sermon alts, which goes around that Merchant taunting thing.. so it makes it irrelevant.

Now, how do you change/stop that?  I don't think you can.  Unless, I guess, if you make it premium-only.

Premium only, raising lo time under siege/enemy in local, or nonprem drops items on logout with enemies in local are the only three that come to mind.

 

Each are as bad and as inconveniencing as the other.

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Propheteer

[Mclovin 2,590]

With current population and nearly everybody in pvp who actually says "raiding sucks" perhaps if you took the correct suggestions from proph and cherry picked them into a test server, raiding might actually become, you know "fun". 

The main arguments i see here is: "don't make it easy to take my stuff" aka, fear.

The biggest thing for me tbh:
People leaving world in 5 minutes when we pull up to the walls is just crazy, who the hell can even defend this? 

@RetrogradeYou have said the Battering Ram will be able to be used on Mine Doors - So you and the devs have already agreed that Mine doors are too hard.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Mclovin

[Wargasm 1,926]

4 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

ok

 

if with 10 raiders right now, you cannot raid a deed worth raiding, but if you make raiding easier, you could.

 

you are giving them access to a part of the game they could not have access to before because defending is so stacked.

 

Round and round we go...

I'm not arguing whether or not defenders have the odds stacked in their favor.  How does my ability to solo-defend a JK deed against 10 Crusaders correlate to a smaller kingdom's inability to raid a larger kingdom?

[Propheteer 7,139]

3 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

Round and round we go...

I'm not arguing whether or not defenders have the odds stacked in their favor.  How does my ability to solo-defend a JK deed against 10 Crusaders correlate to a smaller kingdom's inability to raid a larger kingdom?

ok

 

do you want your 10 man group to be able to raid a deed with goodies inside or not, the current being no, not anything worthwhile unless the defenders do not log in for days.

 

 

i don't know how to make it any clearer than this

Edited February 19, 2017 by Propheteer

[Oreo 5,793]

1 minute ago, Propheteer said:

Premium only, raising lo time under siege/enemy in local, or nonprem drops items on logout with enemies in local are the only three that come to mind.

 

 

Even raising LO times with enemies in local wouldn't really work either.  

It'll just make them go to the opposite sides of the deed you're raiding, giving them the most time to get logged out, or take a tunnel that they made out of local and just log out when they're clear.

 

What I'm saying is those fixes, aren't fixes, they sound good.. but they're also very easy to get around.. in theory.

[armyskin 930]

just keep asking for things to be made easier. whine from every front whatever

[Mclovin 2,590]

3 minutes ago, Oreo said:

Even raising LO times with enemies in local wouldn't really work either.  

It'll just make them go to the opposite sides of the deed you're raiding, giving them the most time to get logged out, or take a tunnel that they made out of local and just log out when they're clear.

 

What I'm saying is those fixes, aren't fixes, they sound good.. but they're also very easy to get around.. in theory.

Right, but the problem with Chaos atm is, you can pin an enemy into a 1 x 1 mine and they can log off safely. 
Idk if you were playing when we pushed 5-6 MR into a dead end mine and they logged out in 5 minutes whilst we bashed for 30+.
Artifacts dropped, which was only reason we carried on.

Same thing with raids, not everybody is just straight out running to a tunnel or otherside of the deed. 
There have been times, like at Bad Move or other deeds we hit, where they've been cut off from reaching the otherside of deed or their tunnel, so they log off in a building or at the back of a dead end mine nearby.

But your post reflects current mentality and truth too. If they don't want to defend they'll just take their stuff and go seek saftey.
But if you took some of the mine door/cata suggestions, with a 2 hour L/O Timer[?] you'd probably be able to get a Path Through a deed in that time, [not completly flatten] 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Mclovin

[Mclovin 2,590]

8 minutes ago, armyskin said:

just keep asking for things to be made easier. whine from every front whatever

Raiding isn't fun, this isn't about making it easier it's about making raiding balanced and fun on both sides.

Let's flip your little argument boy.

It's too easy to defend.
it's too easy to log off in a mine in completely saftey behind a 90ql mine door with all your stuff.
It's too easy to hold off attackers then log in 5 minutes once you decide Nope
It's too easy to setup safe mines to store bulk items.
It's too easy to build cata-proof pits.
It's too easy to log in alts and store items on them to not lose.
It's too easy to place items on merchants.

So whats really easy and who's actually defending whats easy or not?

Now tell me whats easy about attacking with prophs suggested methods?

Edited February 19, 2017 by Mclovin

[armyskin 930]

We put up with, so why should it change just because we left and now you guys are dealing with the same things we did?

 

[Wargasm 1,926]

@Mclovin - Thirty-Five percent (SCA) is the best example I can remember.

 

It's too easy to defend.    It's even easier to catapult a deed for hours and hours and hours without triggering any alarms, what's your point?
it's too easy to log off in a mine in completely saftey behind a 90ql mine door with all your stuff.  One PvP encounter (defeat) should not result in a TOTAL loss of inventory, sorry.
It's too easy to setup safe mines to store bulk items.  Having a safe mine isn't an issue,  Having 27 safe mines is an issue.
It's too easy to build cata-proof pits.  Agree

It's too easy to log in alts and store items on them to not lose. 
It's too easy to place items on merchants.

it's too easy to log off in a mine in completely saftey behind a 90ql mine door with all your stuff. 

One PvP encounter (defeat) should not result in a TOTAL loss of inventory, sorry.  If losing a fight requires me to make another plate set, so be it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to find and enchant a whole new set of smithing tools because you're THAT greedy.

[Propheteer 7,139]

7 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

@Mclovin - Thirty-Five percent (SCA) is the best example I can remember.

 

It's too easy to defend.    It's even easier to catapult a deed for hours and hours and hours without triggering any alarms, what's your point?
it's too easy to log off in a mine in completely saftey behind a 90ql mine door with all your stuff.  One PvP encounter (defeat) should not result in a TOTAL loss of inventory, sorry.
It's too easy to setup safe mines to store bulk items.  Having a safe mine isn't an issue,  Having 27 safe mines is an issue.
It's too easy to build cata-proof pits.  Agree

It's too easy to log in alts and store items on them to not lose. 
It's too easy to place items on merchants.

it's too easy to log off in a mine in completely saftey behind a 90ql mine door with all your stuff. 

One PvP encounter (defeat) should not result in a TOTAL loss of inventory, sorry.  If losing a fight requires me to make another plate set, so be it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to find and enchant a whole new set of smithing tools because you're THAT greedy.

 

I can understand where youre coming with most of this, and i guess its a matter of opinion and approach to the game and what each player is willing to lose, so ill comment on the ones that are strictly mechanic related:

 

 

 

As for the first, it is, but you can make deeds pretty much near impossible to accurately catapult anything with some effort. Wait until the new meta designs come out where dirtwalls are 600 slope on one tile instead of two tiles of 300! (Hint, it will be featured in the next capitol we make, if we make another capitol, along with our mine and interior systems.)

 

For the safemines, sorry its the way the game is shifting. We hit a deed on Epic with around 18 safemines and we gave up after two days. We then saw other deeds with similar setups. So we built two like it on chaos, and we know DD has one similar. If the game isn't dead within a year, most deeds will likely have a safemine for every house if theyre planned by anyone experienced because its not difficult to do in the slightest.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Propheteer